OLD AGE and how to survive it well.

[Oleg Bach]

No one we advocate on your behalf in a sincere manner unless they have had a vested interest in you and you in them..better set a good example with your children and teach them the concept of loyality and duty..no "care giver" is going to look out for you when you are weak and frail- no money will by you safety and love- I suggest that you get old age insurance in the form of children if you do not have them--they need you and you will need them near the end. Teach your children well.

[Oleg Bach]

No one we advocate on your behalf in a sincere manner unless they have had a vested interest in you and you in them..better set a good example with your children and teach them the concept of loyality and duty..no "care giver" is going to look out for you when you are weak and frail- no money will by you safety and love- I suggest that you get old age insurance in the form of children if you do not have them--they need you and you will need them near the end. Teach your children well.

Okay, I lied- give me the million dollar retirement packages and the family can simply stay away while I hire ASIAN hookers and drink myself into a stupor.

[August1991]

Okay, I lied- give me the million dollar retirement packages and the family can simply stay away while I hire ASIAN hookers and drink myself into a stupor.

Asian hookers? Oleg, you really make it hard to reply to one of your posts. So, I usually avoid your comments but this topic raises an important issue that too many people in Western countries prefer to ignore.

I know an older person (widow, no kids) who made Person A executor, gave Person B power of attorney, and left everything to Person C.

-----

Many Westerners believe that the State offers security. (This is a common belief in Quebec, for example, where the State has replaced the Catholic Church as the guide and protector.)

Well, what happens when you are old and dependent on others?

Many people believe that the best protection is being rich - or having access to a rich uncle, like the State. Since all Canadians (and older Americans) are covered by State medical insurance (a rich uncle), many believe that they are like Danny Williams. We have a State medical system that will protect us.

This belief is naive. If there is no one around to protect your interests, your money will soon be gone, your insurance coverage denied or diminished.

I fear that we will soon face a Canada where younger children will have to choose between helping their parents deal with the health bureaucracy, or helping their childless aunts and uncles. Some older Canadians, rich, without children and from dysfunctional families will have no nephews or nieces to protect them in seeking health care. Some children will simply leave their parents to the vagaries of the State health system.

Oleg, in your bizarre originality, you have cut through the old debate whether the US private health care system is better than the Canadian State health care system. For most old people, whether in Canada, the US or China or India, or Angola, the most important thing is whether there is someone younger who will help them.

Fathers and mothers have good reason to get along, have children and treat their children well because in old age, Mom and Dad will need the help of the kids - or at least a nephew or niece. Younger friends may seem like a good idea, and friendship is an important institution in a civilized society, but I think family is more useful in this case.

The State? Anyone who trusts solely in the State for health care in old age is naive.

This idea of Family has been sorely tested over the past few decades. I suspect that it will make a resurgence. We don't choose the century in which we are born.

Edited February 27, 2010 by August1991

[Bonam]

Seems obvious. Family is the most important thing. No one else will unconditionally look out for you.

[William Ashley]

Seems obvious. Family is the most important thing. No one else will unconditionally look out for you.

Who cares the government pays for everything or you die if you want it that way. Worse case scenario you go to jail at 65.. and get free room and board. Why is everyone so afraid of death. bunch of faithless sissies. death is suppose to be a reward at the end of life not a punishment (well atleast for people like me)

The imagination is a wonderful thing.

best case scenario you get to ignore the worlds suffering while you live it up, as misery is put to the background through total ignorance.

Life is life, why are people so overly concerned with it.

Edited February 27, 2010 by William Ashley

[bush_cheney2004]

Who cares the government pays for everything or you die if you want it that way. Worse case scenario you go to jail at 65.. and get free room and board.

Correct....just walk into any bank with a handgun and demand money....wait for police. On second thought, maybe you would only get probation in Canada.

[Bonam]

Who cares the government pays for everything or you die if you want it that way.

Worse case scenario you go to jail at 65.. and get free room and board. Why is everyone so afraid of death. bunch of faithless sissies. death is suppose to be a reward at the end of life not a punishment (well atleast for people like me)

What are you waiting for? You can have your "reward" any time you like...

Life is life, why are people so overly concerned with it.

Because people with a firm grounding in reality realize that you only have one life and when it's over, it's over.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Bonam

[ToadBrother]

Correct....just walk into any bank with a handgun and demand money....wait for police. On second thought, maybe you would only get probation in Canada.

If you did it thirty times, you might get six months.

[August1991]

Who cares the government pays for everything or you die if you want it that way....

William Ashley, it is easy to be flippant but I don't think you understand how this works.

The issue is whether you have a daughter or son, niece or nephew, to protect your interests. (And let's be honest, everyone believes that a son or nephew will have the money as the movie Les Invasions barbares portrays. But what if you don't have a rich son in London?)

William Ashley, it is a question of trust. And in some circumstances, poor or rich, Family is better than the State.

Edited February 27, 2010 by August1991

[kimmy]

William Ashley, it is a question of trust. And in some circumstances, poor or rich, Family is better than the State.

Well, in bonny William's case, it's more a question of basic literacy...

August, when we discussed this a few months ago, you seemed to be of the opinion that market forces would sort everything else. ("the matrons of Westmount can affort to pay for quality care," etc.) Why the about-face? Do they need blood ties when they've got cash?

-k

[Oleg Bach]

Asian hookers? Oleg, you really make it hard to reply to one of your posts. So, I usually avoid your comments but this topic raises an important issue that too many people in Western countries prefer to ignore.

I know an older person (widow, no kids) who made Person A executor, gave Person B power of attorney, and left everything to Person C.

-----

Many Westerners believe that the State offers security. (This is a common belief in Quebec, for example, where the State has replaced the Catholic Church as the guide and protector.)

Well, what happens when you are old and dependent on others?

Many people believe that the best protection is being rich - or having access to a rich uncle, like the State. Since all Canadians (and older Americans) are covered by State medical insurance (a rich uncle), many believe that they are like Danny Williams. We have a State medical system that will protect us.

This belief is naive. If there is no one around to protect your interests, your money will soon be gone, your insurance coverage denied or diminished.

I fear that we will soon face a Canada where younger children will have to choose between helping their parents deal with the health bureaucracy, or helping their childless aunts and uncles. Some older Canadians, rich, without children and from dysfunctional families will have no nephews or nieces to protect them in seeking health care. Some children will simply leave their parents to the vagaries of the State health system.

Oleg, in your bizarre originality, you have cut through the old debate whether the US private health care system is better than the Canadian State health care system. For most old people, whether in Canada, the US or China or India, or Angola, the most important thing is whether there is someone younger who will help them.

Fathers and mothers have good reason to get along, have children and treat their children well because in old age, Mom and Dad will need the help of the kids - or at least a nephew or niece. Younger friends may seem like a good idea, and friendship is an important institution in a civilized society, but I think family is more useful in this case.

The State? Anyone who trusts solely in the State for health care in old age is naive.

This idea of Family has been sorely tested over the past few decades. I suspect that it will make a resurgence. We don't choose the century in which we are born.

[August1991]

August, when we discussed this a few months ago, you seemed to be of the opinion that market forces would sort everything else. ("the matrons of Westmount can affort to pay for quality care," etc.) Why the about-face? Do they need blood ties when they've got cash?

Kimmy, you raise (as usual) a good point.

Of course, market forces will sort this out. But what will the end result be?

Given someone older today (let's say two 55 year old boomer left wing re-married/shacked-up teachers about to retire, extended dysfunctional family, lots of boomer friends, no children or not-speaking kids, indifferent nephews/nieces), they trust the State for their health care/pension. Is their trust well placed?

Kimmy, there is a potential cake. We have two questions: how to share the cake? And then there is the Belinda question, how to make the cake bigger?

Oleg's OP concerns which of these two questions?

Edited February 27, 2010 by August1991

[Oleg Bach]

I have a chain of kids across the city. I also have a former wife that wants to settle into old age with me because she has no one else--well- she wasted over 27 years of my time other than granting children..in the meantime-- my kids that I loved-- return the favour- as with say ASIAN families I am becoming a respected elder..Not because of my approaching old age but because I was loyal to family- even though I should have had a spouse that was a team player instead of always assuming a secretive contentious position.

Having barked that out with a bitter snap - all I can relate to you know is that my kids owe me--I sacraficed for them and now it is my turn to be the free and easy child again..I did my duty and stuck it out..When I notified my mother that I had gotten the bar maid pregnant at the club I was playing--she almost weep--she state "YOU WILL LIVE FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS UNLOVED"...She was wise and a soothsayer in that respect..Now my life is begining again..all I want as I approach 60 is to find true love- to have passionate and angelic sex ---and fulfil my life long dreams..Partnership in love sustains the health of the mind body and spirit--call me a vampire if you wish..

The state consumes consummers..as Forest Gump would say "that is all I have to say about that"

Money-- I had the opportunity to be very rich but I did not want to play the game--and now time tested-- I notice that those that age with money are no better off than I---I did it right...and I followed what was natural to sustain my life..I will be a grand old man and I will be loved-- and I will die when I decide--not when the state insists or family expects...I have but one cold and distant friend and that is God..to bad it was not a human woman---I would be happy for eternity..speaking of eternity..I welcome it.. because I know I am immortal--and I worry about those that are not..including my stupid offspring..who will never change my diaper because I well never shit my pants even when I am 100.

[Oleg Bach]

THIS is a new age--you stop aging around 80 and stablize--just don't bump into anything in that brittle state..and above all resist the thought of fading because the flesh seems to fade--age is not rot..and at least people can continue to enjoy each other- all changes except the genitals and the joy and pleasure they generate. As long as you continue to love..you will live..forget what those of youth or power insist///Old people are persons of great power- remember that and use it!

[August1991]

I also have a former wife that wants to settle into old age with me because she has no one else--well- she wasted over 27 years of my time other than granting children..

Oleg, I have a suspicion that we will soon face a new claim on collective resources.

And when push comes to shove, the general conclusion will be: "It's better to marry, stay married, have kids and raise them together."

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg, I have a suspicion that we will soon face a new claim on collective resources.

And when push comes to shove, the general conclusion will be: "It's better to marry, stay married, have kids and raise them together."

You are correct--but my kids are adults--Yet they still expect me to get along and grow older with their mother- she does not have much in the way of resourses - but she is highly resourseful--do I put aside my principles and work with in that collective and suffer less- or resist on principle and perhaps perish. Maybe a man has to put his principles aside at times.. I totally believe in two people raising the kids together- the children alway fair better..Those that say not to stay together for the sake of the children are fools...My kids are stronger because of the endurance and commitment of the parents to a cause _ Them...But I hate to loose that last ounce of youth to the hag..and she knows if she waits long enough I will be to old to be excepted by another...Jeezzz...what was I thinking with all those years ago?

[Oleg Bach]

Family support is important. I feel sorry for the aging feminists who opted out of marriage to a man..who are childless and co-habitate with a dog or cat..who depend on their "friend" - Personally I have a sister in central america who took the female careerist route to success and now she is childless- husbandless- and alienated from her original family- I sense envy and bitterness in her..I the poor brother took the simple route and settled in to family life...now I am the rich one and she is poor.

[Renegade]

And in some circumstances, poor or rich, Family is better than the State.

You may find it of interest that in some Asian states, they enforce the financial obligations of kids to take care of their parents.

172 file for parent maintenance in last 12 months

Singapore is one of the fastest ageing societies in the world, making the issue of adult children who cannot or will not support ageing parents much sharper. The elderly are left stranded to their own devices or forced to seek help from charities or the state.

Responding to what he called an escalating situation, the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports, Vivian Balakrishnan, told Parliament on Wednesday that his ministry will tighten the system in three key areas.