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Is it time Federalize/Nationalize Minimum Wage?


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Right, but even the US has basic social programs. I'm not saying that their system produces less billionaires, less disparity but I'm saying that if you take a wider view of it, countries with some social structure do well.

I think I understand what you are saying, however my point remains that even in many countries with large wealth disparities, the richest members will do well, perhaps better than in countries with social equalization.

Welcome to the world. Emotional response continues to drive politics in every issue that we care about. Worse, though, is that boredom drives our lack-of-response to many other things like eHealth in Ontario.

Emotionally charged politics is indeed a problem. It is one reason why I'm simply reluctant to trust the will of the majority without constraints. If you look back to pre-war Germany, the Jews were villified, and the government at the time emotionally charged the populace to sanction acts which by objective judgement woudl be contemptable.

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But... you have invested it right ? Doesn't the precept that your labour is yours end after you SPEND your money on something ?

Not at all. If you earn money through employment and spend the money on a car, the car is yours, in the same way the wages of your labour are yours. IOW, the act of exchanging the direct wages paid for your labour for another article of value, doesn't change the notiion that you possess it.

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Good of you to recognize that corporations exist to make a profit. Have you truly come face to face with management of these corporations and tried to negotiotiate without a Union for more money? When you say Good, which types, the ones who smile at you, and then stab in the back, when you are not around? Nice of you to skirt over the existence of Employment Agencies and how they are used to repress working conditions and wages by the Big Corporations.

Yes, I have, and I got the raise I asked for. They were eager to keep me happy because I did vital work very well.

I suggest you learn what unemployment means in the Government and media sense. It means the Amount of EI paying workers to percentage of those collecting. Once your EI is exhuasted you are not counted in the Unemployment percentage. If you were to include the Immigrants Canada brings in (At least 3 hundred thousand if not more) and the amount of those are not working, not collecting EI or welfare, and those

who find themselves working for Employment Agencies the REAL unemployment Rate would be more 20 to 40 percent. With Unemployment Rate at those levels, where is the leverage for you to negotiote more money?

So in your opinion up to 40% of adult Canadians that want a job don't have one? Your just delusional if you think that's the case.

Buddy, You know nothing of the stock market. The stock market is full of theives. The corporations may make the profits but they are not obligated to pay those profits out. Your stock could go up or down because of media and speculation. To make your stock worthless, the corporation is able to sell new issues of the stock until it is worthless and watering down your investment position. Not only do corporations have the ability to dilute your investment position with more stock and they are able to dispense of Assets that may have lured you into investing in the first place. I invested in this fuel cell company, to later have this fuel cell company sell off its fuel cell assets making my stock worthless. So, Please, stop making a donkey of yourself.

That's why you don't just invest in random corporations but do some research. First, many corporations have a decades long track record of paying continuously increasing dividends. If you want a safe bet, look at some of those. You invested in an extremely risky company developing a new technology and got screwed, sucks for you. Ever heard the word diversify? As in don't just invest in one company? As for me, my holdings have nearly tripled in value over the last year and a half. Invested when all the panicked masses were selling off real blue chip companies, got them at rock bottom prices. So I'd say it's you who knows nothing of the market.

Ontario had a huge Autoparts sector. These Autoparts suppliers have operations in both Canada and the US. Many of Canada's Corporations are actually Branch plants of the US corporation. I will repeat myself again. A US corporation will pay the Canadian worker an equivalent wage to the US but that wage will not have the same buying power as a US worker because the Canadian worker has to pay retail prices that are 30 to 40 % higher than the US worker.

Dude, the difference in minimum wage is hardly the biggest thing that is gonna impact the buying power of a Canadian worker compared to an American one. Have you taken a look at the massive difference in tax rates lately? That's the real killer of Canadian's buying power.

I am saying legislate an equal minimum and a maximum minimum wage to the US adjusted to currency fluctuations. There is no reason why the consumer should be susidizing the left do gooders.

If you think our economy needs to be matched precisely to the US we'd have to adjust much more than the minimum wage. Taxes, the way health care is payed for, etc. But since that's not gonna happen you should realize we live in a different country and economic conditions will differ from the US.

Edited by Bonam
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I think I understand what you are saying, however my point remains that even in many countries with large wealth disparities, the richest members will do well, perhaps better than in countries with social equalization.

Agreed.

Emotionally charged politics is indeed a problem. It is one reason why I'm simply reluctant to trust the will of the majority without constraints. If you look back to pre-war Germany, the Jews were villified, and the government at the time emotionally charged the populace to sanction acts which by objective judgement woudl be contemptable.

There is a constitution that partially addresses that. However, there's only so much that institutions can do to mitigate horrors like Nazism.

Maybe we should ask what parts of administration are not emotionally charged and look to move our governments to adapt similar practices. It's hard to bridge the idealogical gap between us to discuss how that would be done. However, my pet peeves about how government work involve the poor job they do in communicating with their stakeholders, the electorate. There is likely some common ground there.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

My idea for a revolution in government would be for cross-political citizen interest groups to study some area of government activity, and to agree on communicating objective measures of how the government is doing at that activity.

In the area of health care, that would mean the group would agree upon some objective measures of how healthcare is being administered, and then collect and regularly publish statistics on how those measures are doing.

There are groups that do this now, however they are all set up with money from either private, government, union, or some other professional group. They are all political in nature, and don't represent the general interest.

I have been posting on this topic on my blog for years now.

Even though your ultimate interest is in removing government from such areas, I'm sure you can agree that an interim goal in your interest would be to show how government is doing (in your view, failing) at delivery of services.

I do think that something like this will arrive at some point in the future. There are some examples of groups that have tried to do this, and have taken initial steps. I have joined several of these and most recently have engaged with a TTC interest group in Toronto where I live.

Edited by Michael Hardner
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Combine that with mortgages breaking penalties. Back 10 years ago mortgages were written with a 3 month interest penalty if you broke it. So if lower mortgage rates appear you refinanced into those rates. Now if you break mortgage for whatever reason you will be paying upwards towards 10000. Another way the corrupt conservatives have screwed Canadians over. You have a right to stay in a region and call it home but if you are forced to move because of employment or whatever, all that equity will be stolen from you by the banks and real estate brokers. Wasn't that way ten years ago and you can thank the conservatives for that.

The opportunity to blame somebody is a basic right it seems. What of personal responsibility? For that matter what of political responsibility? Since we have asked those two questions why not ask what is the status of corporate responsibility?
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Ontario had a huge Autoparts sector. These Autoparts suppliers have operations in both Canada and the US. Many of Canada's Corporations are actually Branch plants of the US corporation. I will repeat myself again. A US corporation will pay the Canadian worker an equivalent wage to the US but that wage will not have the same buying power as a US worker because the Canadian worker has to pay retail prices that are 30 to 40 % higher than the US worker.

Yea...so "fak off" and get your own auto parts corporations and pay the employees more. There...problem solved.

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....If you think our economy needs to be matched precisely to the US we'd have to adjust much more than the minimum wage. Taxes, the way health care is payed for, etc. But since that's not gonna happen you should realize we live in a different country and economic conditions will differ from the US.

Very true, but this guy insists on parity with those pesky 'Merkins. Probably goes nuts when gas prices go up and I pay far less for petrol refined from Canadian crude.

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Not at all. If you earn money through employment and spend the money on a car, the car is yours, in the same way the wages of your labour are yours. IOW, the act of exchanging the direct wages paid for your labour for another article of value, doesn't change the notiion that you possess it.

What about the Sales tax on the Car? You were taxed in earning the money to buy the car and then you are taxed on the money spent to buy the car. After Owning it, you are taxed (plate renewal and emissions). You are taxed on the Insurance premium and taxed on the Oil and Gas used to propel the Car. It appears the Government has quite the racket going on. For the mathematically astute, I am sure a calculation can be made to determine the tax value of the automobile in Canada. Of course it has to be noted retail prices for vehicles is signifacantly higher than the US and Gas is 25% more than the US. You are paying tax on these inflated prices.

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....Of course it has to be noted retail prices for vehicles is signifacantly higher than the US and Gas is 25% more than the US. You are paying tax on these inflated prices.

Irrelevant...you don't live in the US. But you can buy a car there for lower prices and jump through hoops to import it.

See Carswithoutborders.com.

http://www.carswithoutborders.com/

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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I am a small business owner and this is a joke. I can't afford to pay a kid that much money. Minimum wage is a entry level payment ,it it is not intended to be a career.I will be cutting hours and working even more, I guess working 7 days a week is not enough.

It is your choice to be a business owner. I would have thought it a part of your fundamental philosophy that you are not owed anything when it comes to your personal choices.

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There is a constitution that partially addresses that. However, there's only so much that institutions can do to mitigate horrors like Nazism.

True, but the part that concerns me is what the constitution fails to address.

My idea for a revolution in government would be for cross-political citizen interest groups to study some area of government activity, and to agree on communicating objective measures of how the government is doing at that activity.

In the area of health care, that would mean the group would agree upon some objective measures of how healthcare is being administered, and then collect and regularly publish statistics on how those measures are doing.

There are groups that do this now, however they are all set up with money from either private, government, union, or some other professional group. They are all political in nature, and don't represent the general interest.

I have been posting on this topic on my blog for years now.

Even though your ultimate interest is in removing government from such areas, I'm sure you can agree that an interim goal in your interest would be to show how government is doing (in your view, failing) at delivery of services.

I do think that something like this will arrive at some point in the future. There are some examples of groups that have tried to do this, and have taken initial steps. I have joined several of these and most recently have engaged with a TTC interest group in Toronto where I live.

MH, I am complete supportive of the idea of objective measurement of government. IMV it would have to be against goals the government itself sets. For esample if the goal is to reduce poverty, then a cross-political group can likely come up with measures of the extent to which the government is achieving this goal. It is much harder however to agree on whether the goal is "good" or "bad", as a cross-political group will have differing ideologies on the role of government and consequently what its goals should be.

it

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Irrelevant...you don't live in the US. But you can buy a car there for lower prices and jump through hoops to import it.

See Carswithoutborders.com.

http://www.carswithoutborders.com/

Can you try to be objective and logical? The Canadian dollar is approaching Parity. There is no reason for Canadians to pay 30 to 40 percent more at the retail level. It chokes economic activity and the local economy. As for Cars, if there are hoops it's because of the Conservatives and government workers.

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True, but the part that concerns me is what the constitution fails to address.

MH, I am complete supportive of the idea of objective measurement of government. IMV it would have to be against goals the government itself sets. For esample if the goal is to reduce poverty, then a cross-political group can likely come up with measures of the extent to which the government is achieving this goal. It is much harder however to agree on whether the goal is "good" or "bad", as a cross-political group will have differing ideologies on the role of government and consequently what its goals should be.

it

Yes, that's right. Value judgments wouldn't enter into it. It would be about providing the follow-up and memory that the public so often lacks.

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Can you try to be objective and logical? The Canadian dollar is approaching Parity. There is no reason for Canadians to pay 30 to 40 percent more at the retail level.

The last study done showed that we pay about 7% more now on average.

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Can you try to be objective and logical? The Canadian dollar is approaching Parity. There is no reason for Canadians to pay 30 to 40 percent more at the retail level. It chokes economic activity and the local economy. As for Cars, if there are hoops it's because of the Conservatives and government workers.

Nonsense...there are lots of reasons why Canadians pay more at the wholesale and retail level. You can't just waltz into a market distribution channel and declare that you have dollar "parity" (for a month) and "are mad as hell and won't take it anymore". Your entire retail market is smaller than the single state of California's, has higher distribution costs, crazy-ass taxes, and tariffs.

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Yeah, just what Canada needs a pro business government to set the minimum wage. How much are you making this week Fran? I can't find enough trees to pay. can I kill you to get hard labour in prison - at least they feed us, even if it is laced with poison.

Edited by groupeii
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Nonsense...there are lots of reasons why Canadians pay more at the wholesale and retail level. You can't just waltz into a market distribution channel and declare that you have dollar "parity" (for a month) and "are mad as hell and won't take it anymore". Your entire retail market is smaller than the single state of California's, has higher distribution costs, crazy-ass taxes, and tariffs.

It's called walmart. They don't have to waltz anywhere. The fact is, the same product sold in Canada is higher than a walmart in the US. Walmart is a big seller of Goods from China which has nothing to do with the US but revealing of the contrast of retail price differences.

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It's called walmart. They don't have to waltz anywhere. The fact is, the same product sold in Canada is higher than a walmart in the US. Walmart is a big seller of Goods from China which has nothing to do with the US but revealing of the contrast of retail price differences.

HELLO! YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE USA! You will always pay more...forever. Get over it.

Wal-Mart Canada Corp. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

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