California Death Spiral

[msj]

Link: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2010/02/paul-krugman-california-death-spiral.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+EconomistsView+(Economist's+View+(EconomistsView))

Here’s the story: About 800,000 people in California who buy insurance on the individual market — as opposed to ... through their employers — are covered by Anthem Blue Cross, a WellPoint subsidiary. These ... people ... were recently told to expect dramatic rate increases,... as high as 39 percent.

Why the huge increase? It’s ... a classic insurance death spiral.

Bear in mind that private health insurance only works if insurers can sell policies to both sick and healthy customers. If too many healthy people ... take their chances and remain uninsured, the risk pool deteriorates, forcing insurers to raise premiums. This ... leads more healthy people to drop coverage, worsening the risk pool even further, and so on.

Now,... cash-strapped Californians have been dropping their policies or shifting into less-comprehensive plans. Those retaining coverage tend to be people with high current medical expenses. And the result, says the company, is a drastically worsening risk pool: in effect, a death spiral. [/Quote]

I hope this doesn't push the US over the edge to reform their healthcare.

As a Canadian, I support the current US system: its inefficiencies benefit Canada's economy while its better parts also benefit Canada (with Danny Williams of Newfoundland being the most recent example).

Let's continue to have it both ways forever!

[Guest American Woman]

I hope this doesn't push the US over the edge to reform their healthcare.

As a Canadian, I support the current US system: its inefficiencies benefit Canada's economy while its better parts also benefit Canada (with Danny Williams of Newfoundland being the most recent example).

Let's continue to have it both ways forever!

It must be this "all about what's best for Canadians, screw Americans even though it's their country" line of thought that makes Canadians so morally superior to Americans and well loved through out the world.

[msj]

It must be this "all about what's best for Canadians, screw Americans even though it's their country" line of thought that makes Canadians so morally superior to Americans and well loved through out the world.

We're not morally superior.

Well some are.

Just like any country.

But I do know a good thing when I see it, and if having the best of both worlds is in my best interests, and if it so happens to come at the expense of some Americans, and I just happen to be a Canadian, well, so be it.

[eyeball]

I hope this doesn't push the US over the edge to reform their healthcare.

As a Canadian, I support the current US system: its inefficiencies benefit Canada's economy while its better parts also benefit Canada (with Danny Williams of Newfoundland being the most recent example).

Let's continue to have it both ways forever!

I fail to see how this helps us in the end. Their system seems to just make Americans crankier and more cynical as time goes by. What seems most inefficient is the U.S. government's ability to simply deal with it. As American public derision for their government and system builds they only seem to become less responsive which feeds a death spiral of an even worse kind. That vortex is already close enough to have sucked some of Canada's faith in our own system and government away, we don't need to lose any more of that than we have.

Edited February 20, 2010 by eyeball

[Wilber]

It must be this "all about what's best for Canadians, screw Americans even though it's their country" line of thought that makes Canadians so morally superior to Americans and well loved through out the world.

Must be. Got to admit I support the US system as well, for purely selfish reasons.

[Guest American Woman]

Must be. Got to admit I support the US system as well, for purely selfish reasons.

Good to know. Seriously. It's good to be armed with such knowledge when running into other Canadians as well as other nationalities who think it's Americans who selfishly think this way while Canadians are ever thoughtful of the rest of the world. Good to be able to set them straight.

[Argus]

California's "death spiral" began when a simpering, cowardly, cynical federal government abrogated its responsibilities to protect it's southern border.

Millions of illiterate Hispanics flooding into California combined with a wide-eyed, bleeding heart liberalism there which said "Why of course we have to give them health care! Why of course we have to educate their children! Why of course we have to give them welfare!"... even though they pay no taxes, to form the perfect storm of economic catastrophe.

Then all the simpering Liberals began to slowly engage in white flight, leaving behind the "colourful multicultural mosaic" they loved so much behind.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Argus

[Guest TrueMetis]

Good to know. Seriously. It's good to be armed with such knowledge when running into other Canadians as well as other nationalities who think it's Americans who selfishly think this way while Canadians are ever thoughtful of the rest of the world. Good to be able to set them straight.

They won't believe you anyway.

Edited February 20, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Guest American Woman]

They won't believe you anyway.

Oh, they'll believe this sweet, charming American; no doubt about it.

[msj]

Good to know. Seriously. It's good to be armed with such knowledge when running into other Canadians as well as other nationalities who think it's Americans who selfishly think this way while Canadians are ever thoughtful of the rest of the world. Good to be able to set them straight.

Why do you project so much prejudice on others?

[dizzy]

I'm still clueless as to why anyone's respect for life and dignity would end at their borders.

Yes, provinces and some individuals capitalize on the misfortunes in the US system, but we are talking about a very small pool compared to the many americans who suffer. A million Californians alone have to leave the country to get access to healthcare.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-05/uoc--n1m052609.php

What insurance companies are doing in the US hovers very close to criminal behaviour.

[Guest American Woman]

Why do you project so much prejudice on others?

You'll have to clarify; what "prejudice" am I "projecting," and on whom?

I'm still clueless as to why anyone's respect for life and dignity would end at their borders.

It's one thing to not have respect and dignity for life outside one's borders; it's quite another to wish ill on them for one's own benefit.

Personally, I think Obama's first priority should be to deal with insurance companies' tactics before trying to force all of us to buy policies from them.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm still clueless as to why anyone's respect for life and dignity would end at their borders.

This is quite common for various reasons, even domestically.

Yes, provinces and some individuals capitalize on the misfortunes in the US system, but we are talking about a very small pool compared to the many americans who suffer. A million Californians alone have to leave the country to get access to healthcare.

Yet it is not a matter of official government policy, as are provincial contracts for US services.

What insurance companies are doing in the US hovers very close to criminal behaviour.

How so? Are agonizing wait times in Canada similarly "criminal".

[msj]

You'll have to clarify; what "prejudice" am I "projecting," and on whom?

I'm sorry. I simply assumed you had some kind of comprehension of what you have posted.

Instead, it appears that you simply string words together without really understanding their meaning.

Once again, my apologies for assuming too much.

[dizzy]

Personally, I think Obama's first priority should be to deal with insurance companies' tactics before trying to force all of us to buy policies from them.

Agreed. Tort reform is required, as is accountability for skyrocketing premiums that are pricing people out of quality care. But there is also an issue with doctors themselves, whose profit hunger has compromised their Hippocratic oaths.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

[msj]

California's "death spiral" began when a simpering, cowardly, cynical federal government abrogated its responsibilities to protect it's southern border.

Millions of illiterate Hispanics flooding into California combined with a wide-eyed, bleeding heart liberalism there which said "Why of course we have to give them health care! Why of course we have to educate their children! Why of course we have to give them welfare!"... even though they pay no taxes, to form the perfect storm of economic catastrophe.

Then all the simpering Liberals began to slowly engage in white flight, leaving behind the "colourful multicultural mosaic" they loved so much behind.

Yeah, it's all those Hispanics flooding into Michigan (56% increase in 2009), Washington state (40% increases), Maine (23% increase), etc....

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/health-insurance-costs-sh_n_466937.html

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman, on 21 February 2010 - 01:02 AM, said: You'll have to clarify; what "prejudice" am I "projecting," and on whom?

I'm sorry. I simply assumed you had some kind of comprehension of what you have posted.

Instead, it appears that you simply string words together without really understanding their meaning.

Once again, my apologies for assuming too much.

I know exactly what I said. It's your comment that I'm questioning,was that really too difficult for you to understand? I was wondering if your comment could possibly have been as moronic as I interpreted it to be, and by your refusal to elaborate, I'm assuming it was, so thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Guest American Woman]

Millions of illiterate Hispanics flooding into California combined with a wide-eyed, bleeding heart liberalism there which said "Why of course we have to give them health care! Why of course we have to educate their children! Why of course we have to give them welfare!"... even though they pay no taxes, to form the perfect storm of economic catastrophe.

They do pay taxes, and their children receive an education. Now show me a source that says they get health care and welfare, because whether or not they should get health care and social security is an issue right now, and since they don't receive other government benefits, I'd like proof that they get welfare.

For the record, the governor of California isn't a wide-eyed, bleeding heart liberal, he's a Republican.

Edited February 21, 2010 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Agreed. Tort reform is required, as is accountability for skyrocketing premiums that are pricing people out of quality care. But there is also an issue with doctors themselves, whose profit hunger has compromised their Hippocratic oaths.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

There needs to be a public option, IMO.

[msj]

I know exactly what I said. It's your comment that I'm questioning,was that really too difficult for you to understand? I was wondering if your comment could possibly have been as moronic as I interpreted it to be, and by your refusal to elaborate, I'm assuming it was, so thanks for clearing that up for me.

My apologies.

I shouldn't have responded to your stereotypical (and oh, so, typical) response to my OP in the first place.

Then maybe the thread wouldn't have gone sideways and maybe the rest of us would be addressing the substance of the OP rather than so and so thinks Canadians are morally superior and whether or not they are loved throughout the world.

Edited February 21, 2010 by msj

[Guest American Woman]

My apologies.

I shouldn't have responded to your stereotypical (and oh, so, typical) response to my OP in the first place.

Yes, pointing out the absurdity and lack of morality of someone wishing for someone else's misfortune for their own benefit would be a "typical" response; can't argue that.

Then maybe the thread wouldn't have gone sideways....

There's nothing "sideways" about it: it has everything to do with your OP and the comments I was responding to.

Edited February 21, 2010 by American Woman

[msj]

Yes, pointing out the absurdity and lack of morality of someone wishing for someone else's misfortune for their own benefit would be a "typical" response; can't argue that.

There's nothing "sideways" about it: it has everything to do with your OP and the comments I was responding to.

My apologies once again and fair enough.

I should have put a after that part of my OP and that probably would have avoided this miscommunication.

Nevertheless, the stereotypical BS that you displayed was still unnecessary.

[Guest American Woman]

Nevertheless, the stereotypical BS that you displayed was still unnecessary.

No more unnecessary than the comments I was responding to. Don't like the reaction such comments generate? Too bad, so sad, because my response was perfectly in line with the comments.

[msj]

Fair enough.

I will use better discretion when ignoring you in the future.

Although, I do note that the original comments were not stereotypical BS.

Edited February 21, 2010 by msj

[Guest American Woman]

Fair enough.

I will use better discretion when ignoring you in the future.

Although, I do note that the original comments were not stereotypical BS.

The original comments were exactly as I claimed them to be, thus my response.

I point out the "Ugly American" aspect of such comments when it's appropriate, and I have to say, as an American who always hears how "ugly" Americans are and how "polite/caring" Canadians are, this board has been a learning experience for me; and pointing out such things, when it's appropriate, is all part of the interaction/reaction/responses this board generates.

I notice you feel it's fine for the Canadians to have made the comments they did; it's just my comments that were "unnecessary". Perhaps you should look at your own comments before telling me what's necessary/unnecessary on my part, because I'll be the judge of that, thank you very much.

Edited February 21, 2010 by American Woman