Harper to prorogue parliament AGAIN?

DrGreenthumb · December 16, 2009

All the Tory members skipped out on the Afghan committee hearing even though 4 had previously confirmed they would attend. It seems that Harper has ordered his MP's to go into to full cover up mode. There must be some really damaging stuff that they would go to such ectremes to suppress it. How will Canadians react if they find out that Harper and MacKay are indeed guilty of violating the Geneva convention?

I've heard that Harper is even thinking of prorogueing parliament again so the

Conservatives can avoid testifying before the committee.

Visionseeker · December 16, 2009

All the Tory members skipped out on the Afghan committee hearing even though 4 had previously confirmed they would attend. It seems that Harper has ordered his MP's to go into to full cover up mode. There must be some really damaging stuff that they would go to such ectremes to suppress it. How will Canadians react if they find out that Harper and MacKay are indeed guilty of violating the Geneva convention?

I've heard that Harper is even thinking of prorogueing parliament again so the

Conservatives can avoid testifying before the committee.

The GG will not prorogue a second time without consulting the opposition to determine whether he can gain the confidence of the House. The government must do the crown's business. If the current government can't do it, another must take it's place. If Harper and co are betting that the GG won't disolve, they've made a very bad bet. Westminister rules are rather clear on the subject.

ToadBrother · December 16, 2009

The GG will not prorogue a second time without consulting the opposition to determine whether he can gain the confidence of the House. The government must do the crown's business. If the current government can't do it, another must take it's place. If Harper and co are betting that the GG won't disolve, they've made a very bad bet. Westminister rules are rather clear on the subject.

We can't possibly know what the GG will do. For the GG to reject the request of Her Majesty's Government is so very rare that I can only come up with a handful over the last 150 years. At the same time, for Harper to actually seek a second proroguement would be, on the face of it, an outrageous abuse of Government powers. In short, we'd be faced with a constitutional crisis. I would like to think the GG would have told Harper last year that the proroguing of Parliament was a one-time Get Out Of Jail Free card, and not the upgrading of what amounts to a procedural power to a full-blown Constitutional tactic for evading the will of Parliament. If that is the case, and we continue to have minority governments for the foreseeable future, then our democracy is at real risk of simply grinding to a halt as the governing party turns the business of government into a glacier simply to hold on to power. If it were to happen, I'd like to think that the GG would use her reserve powers, but GG's defying a Prime Minister is so rare I wouldn't place money either way.

But I see no evidence at all that Harper is going to ask for Parliament to be prorogued. Parliament is going to recess for Christmas, anyways, and not showing up to a committee, while childish and evasive, hardly constitutes the same kind of situation we saw in late 2008. There is no organized attempt to recreate the Coalition, and I doubt that the opposition parties want this to come to head in any meaningful way any more than the Conservatives do. It's just sabre rattling.

Hydraboss · December 16, 2009

I've heard that Harper is even thinking of prorogueing parliament again so the

Conservatives can avoid testifying before the committee.

Please share with us the reliable source that shared this with you and no one else.

Thanks.

DrGreenthumb · December 16, 2009

Please share with us the reliable source that shared this with you and no one else.

Thanks.

Try turning on your TV and watching the news maybe.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2344764

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-buzzing-with-talk-of-proroguing-parliament/article1400284/

Or try either of those links, or hell google it yourself, and choose from dozens of articles available on the net.

Jack Weber · December 16, 2009

All I can say is that now that Richard Colvin has shot down everything the Tory lackies said to discredit him,and seeing Mr.Dewar say that the Tory chair of the committee is basically a stand up guy who would not normally act this way,this is probably far worse than we all know at the moment.

If Mr.Harper actually tries to pull the plug on parliament because he does'nt want to hear the bad news,he is one gutless Con.It also shows that no matter what persona Harper wants people to believe,he's still little more than a bully who cannot take the heat.I hope he goes to the GG and she tells him,"No!".

If he actually pulls this off,I'll have to revisit my position on a coalition gov't.It was wholly unsupportable because of the potential seperatist influence.If Mr.Harper intends to take his bat and ball and go home because he knows the $#!+ is going to hit the fan,rather than come clean,I would suggest Canadians deserve alot better than that...

Jack Weber · December 16, 2009

We can't possibly know what the GG will do. For the GG to reject the request of Her Majesty's Government is so very rare that I can only come up with a handful over the last 150 years. At the same time, for Harper to actually seek a second proroguement would be, on the face of it, an outrageous abuse of Government powers. In short, we'd be faced with a constitutional crisis. I would like to think the GG would have told Harper last year that the proroguing of Parliament was a one-time Get Out Of Jail Free card, and not the upgrading of what amounts to a procedural power to a full-blown Constitutional tactic for evading the will of Parliament. If that is the case, and we continue to have minority governments for the foreseeable future, then our democracy is at real risk of simply grinding to a halt as the governing party turns the business of government into a glacier simply to hold on to power. If it were to happen, I'd like to think that the GG would use her reserve powers, but GG's defying a Prime Minister is so rare I wouldn't place money either way.

But I see no evidence at all that Harper is going to ask for Parliament to be prorogued. Parliament is going to recess for Christmas, anyways, and not showing up to a committee, while childish and evasive, hardly constitutes the same kind of situation we saw in late 2008. There is no organized attempt to recreate the Coalition, and I doubt that the opposition parties want this to come to head in any meaningful way any more than the Conservatives do. It's just sabre rattling.

I hope you're right...From the pettiness I've seem from Mr.Harper,and his control freak ways,I would'nt put anything past him...

ZenOps · December 16, 2009

What a douche Harper is.

In my book, prorogueing government was only to be used as a last resort in time of great need (like a world war) This is outright abuse of power if he tries it again.

We might as well just dissolve the entire government and just ask the Queen to rule Canada again.

Mr.Canada · December 16, 2009

It doesn't really matter what Harper does. Mr.Ignatieff is a lame duck leader and will never be PM just like Mr. Layton will never be PM.

The only thing that is up in the air is whether or not the Tories get a majority or not.

eyeball · December 16, 2009

It doesn't really matter what Harper does. Mr.Ignatieff is a lame duck leader and will never be PM just like Mr. Layton will never be PM.

The only thing that is up in the air is whether or not the Tories get a majority or not.

Its not up in the air at all. They don't have a majority and if they've now decided they can't lead the government they should get out of the way and follow someone else. This doesn't automatically mean it has to be Ignatieff that's in charge.

In Canada, the Standing Orders of the Commons could be amended to provide for the selection by majority vote of the person who has the support of the members to assume the position of head of government.
The vote would be held at the start of a new Parliament after the vote for speaker, and any time during the life of a Parliament that the position of prime minister becomes vacant.

Source

Edited December 16, 2009 by eyeball

YEGmann · December 16, 2009

There are more benefits for Harper to have this detainee circus running.

The Colvin's letter clearly shows that he is unable to provide any new facts and he has no first-hand evidence. And explicitly accusing respectful warriors and diplomats in lying to the commision of the parliament without a killer documents is silly. The more the opposition beats this dead horse the more disappointment from the common public it will receive.

The senate made itself an easy target for Harper's critique (now it can be attacks) too.

ToadBrother · December 16, 2009

It doesn't really matter what Harper does. Mr.Ignatieff is a lame duck leader and will never be PM just like Mr. Layton will never be PM.

The only thing that is up in the air is whether or not the Tories get a majority or not.

Your cheerleading and the other side's demonizing aside, I see no evidence whatsoever that Harper is going to try to prorogue Parliament again. If he does, I think it would pretty much destroy his political career. If the GG accedes to the request, he's going to look like a coward, and if the GG refuses, well, everyone will be looking to throw him in the shark tank at the earliest opportunity.

The whole Afghanistan prisoner abuse question, while serious, isn't really sufficient to cause the Opposition, still gunshy from their last attempt at a Coalition, to go at it again. It ain't gonna happen.

M.Dancer · December 16, 2009

What a douche Harper is.

In my book, prorogueing government was only to be used as a last resort in time of great need (like a world war) This is outright abuse of power if he tries it again.

Ahem....Parliament is prorogued regularly..at the end of every session.

bush_cheney2004 · December 16, 2009

Ahem....Parliament is prorogued regularly..at the end of every session.

+2

Each session of a Parliament ends with the prorogation of Parliament by the Governor General, on the advice of the Prime Minister. Most unfinished business dies and committees cease to function. Parliament then stands prorogued until the opening of the next session on a specified date. This date may be changed by a further proclamation.

Government bills that have not received Royal Assent prior to prorogation can be reinstated in the next session only if the House takes a decision to this effect. All items of Private Members' Business are automatically reinstated. Tabling of documents before the House must await the beginning of the new session. Requests for responses to petitions and for the production of papers remain in effect, as do requests made for government responses to committee reports.

Mr.Canada · December 16, 2009

Your cheerleading and the other side's demonizing aside, I see no evidence whatsoever that Harper is going to try to prorogue Parliament again. If he does, I think it would pretty much destroy his political career. If the GG accedes to the request, he's going to look like a coward, and if the GG refuses, well, everyone will be looking to throw him in the shark tank at the earliest opportunity.

The whole Afghanistan prisoner abuse question, while serious, isn't really sufficient to cause the Opposition, still gunshy from their last attempt at a Coalition, to go at it again. It ain't gonna happen.

Exactly as I said. He doesn't need to prorogue parliament or do anything at all. The Liberals are hanging themselves, they are way too scared to bring down the government. Once during a session was enough. He made his point the first time, if Harper tried to do it again he'd look desparate. I doubt he would ask for it at any rate.

Contrary to popular socialist belief he isn't a stupid man.

Topaz · December 16, 2009

I think Harper knows he probably won't get to prorogue Parliament again so he perhaps trying to get the opposition parties to call for an election to stop the committee meetings. More and more these guys look guilty as ever, just like all the other stunts they have pulled in the past but the past maybe catching up with him! Harper meet your waterloo!

ToadBrother · December 16, 2009

Exactly as I said. He doesn't need to prorogue parliament or do anything at all. The Liberals are hanging themselves, they are way too scared to bring down the government. Once during a session was enough. He made his point the first time, if Harper tried to do it again he'd look desparate. I doubt he would ask for it at any rate.

What precisely was his point? That he was willing to risk a constitutional showdown just to stay in power?

Contrary to popular socialist belief he isn't a stupid man.

No, but he is arrogant. He wouldn't have ended up with his back against the wall in 2008 if he hadn't thought so highly of himself, and had better understood the Parliament that he was in.

Mr.Canada · December 16, 2009

What precisely was his point? That he was willing to risk a constitutional showdown just to stay in power?

No, but he is arrogant. He wouldn't have ended up with his back against the wall in 2008 if he hadn't thought so highly of himself, and had better understood the Parliament that he was in.

granted, he certainly can be at times just as Ignatieff is as well all the time. That aside. He can afford to be. Who's going to bring him down? Ignatieff and Layton? LOL, I don't think so. it is going to take all three parties and they aren't going to do that anytime soon. Harper will be deciding the next election not the opposition who are too scared to do anything but remain absent at votes.

Topaz · December 16, 2009

granted, he certainly can be at times just as Ignatieff is as well all the time. That aside. He can afford to be. Who's going to bring him down? Ignatieff and Layton? LOL, I don't think so. it is going to take all three parties and they aren't going to do that anytime soon. Harper will be deciding the next election not the opposition who are too scared to do anything but remain absent at votes.

Harper may/may not be in control of an election but its the VOTERS that will have the last say! The debt, the afghan coverup and the environmnet are very reasons to voted against the Tories!

ToadBrother · December 16, 2009

granted, he certainly can be at times just as Ignatieff is as well all the time. That aside. He can afford to be. Who's going to bring him down? Ignatieff and Layton? LOL, I don't think so. it is going to take all three parties and they aren't going to do that anytime soon. Harper will be deciding the next election not the opposition who are too scared to do anything but remain absent at votes.

Speaking of being absent...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/12/15/afghan-committee-boycott.html

Mr.Canada · December 16, 2009

Harper may/may not be in control of an election but its the VOTERS that will have the last say! The debt, the afghan coverup and the environmnet are very reasons to voted against the Tories!

All parties voted on stimulus spending so you don't get to take the high road now. I don't think we'll be listening to the NDP on how to balance the books.

I really don't think Canadians really care if some members of the Taliban were mistreated.

Crippling a rebounding economy will hardy sit well with voters.

capricorn · December 17, 2009

A new poll suggests Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives are maintaining a six-point lead over the Liberals, despite facing daily fire over their handling of the Afghanistan detainee issue.
The survey by The Canadian Press Harris-Decima, indicates support for the Conservatives stands at 34 per cent nationally, compared to 28 per cent for the Liberals, 14 for the NDP and 13 for the Greens.

The Tories are ahead in every region of the country, except Quebec where the Bloc Quebecois is dominant at 38 per cent, followed by the Liberals at 24 per cent, the Tories at 17 and the NDP at 10.

Given the margin of error, the results are essentially no different than the 36-27 split garnered by the two parties earlier this fall when the government appeared to be on a roll and the Liberals in free-fall.

The findings suggest the detainee abuse controversy may have helped halt the Liberals’ slide but has done little to dent the Tories.

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/index.cfm?sid=311312&sc=117

It appears mainstream Canadians are not manifesting massive indignation over the allegations of torture of Afghan detainees. It could be that Canadians would not object to proroguing Parliament if the end result was a halt the present partisan games over detainees. It could also be that those Canadians are more into preparing for the Christmas holidays and Parliament's work is not on their radar, especially if they don't see anything on the agenda that would impact them positively or negatively. Perhaps it's a combination of all those possibilities.

In any case, this poll is sure to be a big disappointment to the Liberals.

ToadBrother · December 17, 2009

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/index.cfm?sid=311312&sc=117

It appears mainstream Canadians are not manifesting massive indignation over the allegations of torture of Afghan detainees. It could be that Canadians would not object to proroguing Parliament if the end result was a halt the present partisan games over detainees. It could also be that those Canadians are more into preparing for the Christmas holidays and Parliament's work is not on their radar, especially if they don't see anything on the agenda that would impact them positively or negatively. Perhaps it's a combination of all those possibilities.

In any case, this poll is sure to be a big disappointment to the Liberals.

A six point lead is hardly a declaration by the public that the Tories are great. Even if it were, it strikes me as a ludicrous statement to say "They would approve of proroguing Parliament again". I for one thought the first time was a terrible precedent, and I would sincerely hope that the GG would send Harper walking if he tried it again. Using this power to evade Parliament is spitting in the face of our system of government.

Wilber · December 17, 2009

A six point lead is hardly a declaration by the public that the Tories are great. Even if it were, it strikes me as a ludicrous statement to say "They would approve of proroguing Parliament again".

Agreed, although it does indicate that regardless of how much the opposition rants on this issue it has little traction with the public.

Shady · December 17, 2009

Harper doesn't need to prorogue parliament. The vast majority of Canadians couldn't give a rat's ass whether some Taliban detainees were ruffed up. They care about jobs, jobs, and jobs. That's all right now.

The opposition is wasting its time. This is a complete non-issue.