The complete guide to killing non-Jews.

[naomiglover]

“In any situation in which a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives, the non-Jew may be killed even if he is a righteous Gentile and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created…When a non-Jew assists a murderer of Jews and causes the death of one, he may be killed, and in any case where a non-Jew’s presence causes danger to Jews, the non-Jew may be killed…The [Din Rodef] dispensation applies even when the pursuer is not threatening to kill directly, but only indirectly…Even a civilian who assists combat fighters is considered a pursuer and may be killed. Anyone who assists the army of the wicked in any way is strengthening murderers and is considered a pursuer. A civilian who encourages the war gives the king and his soldiers the strength to continue. Therefore, any citizen of the state that opposes us who encourages the combat soldiers or expresses satisfaction over their actions is considered a pursuer and may be killed. Also, anyone who weakens our own state by word or similar action is considered a pursuer…Hindrances—babies are found many times in this situation. They block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”…In a chapter entitled “Deliberate harm to innocents,” the book explains that war is directled mainly against the pursuers, but those who belong to the enemy nation are also considered the enemy because they are assisting murderers.

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

This man does not represent Jews. He does, however, represent many settlers who still see the vision of Greater Israel. These settlers have strong backing in the Israeli government. A major reason why we're still seeing the unpopular Jewish settlements (both with the Israelis and Palestinians) continue to be backed by the Israeli government. Many see these settlements as one of the major obstacles to any kind of progression in the peace talks and justice for the Palestinians.

Edited December 8, 2009 by naomiglover

[politicslvr]

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

This man does not represent Jews. He does, however, represent many settlers who still see the vision of Greater Israel. These settlers have strong backing in the Israeli government. A major reason why we're still seeing the unpopular Jewish settlements (both with the Israelis and Palestinians) continue to be backed by the Israeli government. Many see these settlements as one of the major obstacles to any kind of progression in the peace talks and justice for the Palestinians.

It's unfortunate that religious bigots like this one have any power to sway the Israeli government's policy making. I just hope that the world understands that these Jews are a minority and do not, in any way, represent the views of the Jewish population at large.

[BubberMiley]

I agree that they are an extreme mini-minority, but such views are prevalent in the subtext of many longstanding members of this board, so they couldn't be all that rare.

[Mr.Canada]

The Israeli government is one of the most fascist ones on the face of the Earth today. I don't think this can be argued given their xenophobic immigration policies and enforcing their socially conservative policy by force. I would like to see Canada do the same as they have done. Keep their population largely homogeneous, vigilantly check all people visiting their country at armed check points to keep it safe from those who wish to destroy it and have a Far right wing government which passes openly racist policies at every turn, sounds like heaven. Too bad only the Israelis can get away with this. If any other country tired it they'd be brought before the UN human right tribunal so fast it'd be mind blowing.

Why the double standard?

[Argus]

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

This man does not represent Jews. He does, however, represent many settlers who still see the vision of Greater Israel. These settlers have strong backing in the Israeli government.

Is there a particular reason why you used the term "Jews" rather than "Israelis"?

[Argus]

I agree that they are an extreme mini-minority, but such views are prevalent in the subtext of many longstanding members of this board, so they couldn't be all that rare.

I don't care who he represents. The reality is that the Israeli government does not follow this sort of practice. If they did, there'd be no more Palestinians left alive.

However, ALL the people you support on the other side of the fence do, and not merely with words, but with actions, indiscriminately targeting Israeli civilians, including children.

Apparently, that causes you no particular moral doubts about supporting them.

[Argus]

The Israeli government is one of the most fascist ones on the face of the Earth today. I don't think this can be argued given their xenophobic immigration policies and enforcing their socially conservative policy by force.

I'm not sure you actually know what a Fascist is.

Israel's immigration policies are their own business. Yes, they're related to ancestry, but so are those of many other nations. Try emigrating to Japan some day, or Iceland, and see how successful you are.

As for their socially conservative policies - there are plenty of nude beaches in Israel, probably a hell of a lot more than in Canada.

[M.Dancer]

Anyone have a particulr problem with this...?

“In any situation in which a non-canadians presence endangers Canadian's lives, the non-Canadian may be killed even if he is a Peace nik and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created…When a non-Canadian assists a murderer of Canadians and causes the death of one, he may be killed, and in any case where a non-Canadian’s presence causes danger to Canadians, the non-Canadian may be killed…The Geneva convention rules of sefl defense applies even when the pursuer is not threatening to kill directly, but only indirectly…Even a civilian who assists combat fighters is considered a pursuer and may be killed.

[Guest American Woman]

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

This man does not represent Jews. He does, however, represent many settlers who still see the vision of Greater Israel. These settlers have strong backing in the Israeli government.

Proof, please, that he represents "many settlers." I'm assuming you have quotes from settlers saying that he represents them, or I'm sure you would never have made such a damning accusation, so I'd appreciate some links backing up your claim.

[Guest American Woman]

Is there a particular reason why you used the term "Jews" rather than "Israelis"?

Most likely because Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira talks in terms of of "Jews and non-Jews," not Israelis and non-Israelis.

[naomiglover]

I don't care who he represents. The reality is that the Israeli government does not follow this sort of practice.

The Israeli government happens to support this rabbi who advocates killing babies:

Who is funding the rabbi who endorses killing gentile babies?

Lior Yavne, who oversees research at the Yesh Din human rights organization, checked and found that in 2006-2007, the Ministry of Education department of Torah institutions transferred over a million shekels to the Od Yosef Hai yeshiva in Yitzhar.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1128767.html

[DogOnPorch]

Jew-baiting...a time honored tradition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel_against_Jews

[Guest American Woman]

The Israeli government happens to support this rabbi who advocates killing babies:

Who is funding the rabbi who endorses killing gentile babies?

Lior Yavne, who oversees research at the Yesh Din human rights organization, checked and found that in 2006-2007, the Ministry of Education department of Torah institutions transferred over a million shekels to the Od Yosef Hai yeshiva in Yitzhar.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1128767.html

I noticed Israel's "support" of Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira took place in 2006-07, while his book was just released last month. Some proof, please, showing either that the Israeli government was aware of his views prior to the release of his book or that the government was/is still supporting him since the release of his book/his views have been made known.

[DogOnPorch]

I noticed Israel's "support" of Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira took place in 2006-07, while his book was just released last month. Some proof, please, showing either that the Israeli government was aware of his views prior to the release of his book or that the government was/is still supporting him since the release of his book/his views have been made known.

I hear Jews make Matzah out of the blood of Christian and Muslim children.

[naomiglover]

Proof, please, that he represents "many settlers." I'm assuming you have quotes from settlers saying that he represents them, or I'm sure you would never have made such a damning accusation, so I'd appreciate some links backing up your claim.

I'm assuming that you don't know what the mindset of many of the settlers are for you to make a comment like that. What he shares with almost all settlers is the vision of Greater Israel which includes the Palestinian land. Many of these settlers have engaged in violent acts towards the Palestinians. They're mostly all extremists and support the ethnic cleansing of the Arabs which they see as occupants of their land.

Just look at this settler boy, the settler woman and the soldiers:

[M.Dancer]

What a bad translation.

Where the boy is said to cry "I will annihilate you" is better translated as "I will erase you from the pages of history"

[Machjo]

http://coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

This man does not represent Jews. He does, however, represent many settlers who still see the vision of Greater Israel. These settlers have strong backing in the Israeli government. A major reason why we're still seeing the unpopular Jewish settlements (both with the Israelis and Palestinians) continue to be backed by the Israeli government. Many see these settlements as one of the major obstacles to any kind of progression in the peace talks and justice for the Palestinians.

Thank you for clarifying that first sentence. At first I thought this was a Jew-bashing thread. We need to realize that the Jewish Faith and Zionism are two different causes entirely: the one is a religion, a spiritual path; the other a political ideology In fact, there have even been deadly encounters between Jews and Zionists in the past, and many Jews openly denounce the state of Israel. The actions of the Zionist state of Israel must not be confounded with the Jewish Faith.

[Guest American Woman]

Many Jews denounce the state of Israel? Could you back that up with some sources, please?

Edited December 10, 2009 by American Woman

[Argus]

The Israeli government happens to support this rabbi who advocates killing babies:

To repeat - as should be clear to anyone NOT a raving anti-Semite, if the Israelis believed in what this man advocates, they would have long since exterminated the Palestinian people. They could have done so quite easily over the past decades, and could still do so now. They could also have simply expelled them all through violence, forcing the bleeding remnants across the borders into Jordan, Egypt and Syria. It has never made any attempt to do either.

On the other hand, all of the "liberation" organizations representing the Arabs seem to feel it's fair game to attack Israeli children and unarmed civilians wherever they can find them and whenever they can get at them, adn this evidently causes you no particular anguish.

[Guest American Woman]

Proof, please, that he represents "many settlers." I'm assuming you have quotes from settlers saying that he represents them, or I'm sure you would never have made such a damning accusation, so I'd appreciate some links backing up your claim.

I'm assuming that you don't know what the mindset of many of the settlers are for you to make a comment like that. ...

Just look at this settler boy, the settler woman and the soldiers:

I looked and saw no one confirming that this Rabbi represents them.

So in light of your inability to produce evidence, it's clear that you have none. It's clear that you are once again making allegations with nothing to back them up.

Speaking of which .... I'm still waiting for your proof that the Israeli government has "supported" him since these views of his have been made known.

Edited December 10, 2009 by American Woman

[KeyStone]

I think most of us can agree, that this particular representative of the Jewish faith, is an abominable individual.

So, he has written a book that suggests there is nothing morally wrong. He is the not the first Jewish religious leader to express similar thoughts.

If one were to accept his views that it is OK for Israeli Jews to kill non-Jewish children if they are likely to grow up and do harm (aka Palestinians), then it seems likely that Israeli Jews are likely to do harm to Palestinians, in which case, it seems perfectly just (by the same logic)for the Palestinians to kill Israeli children before they can do this harm as advocated by the Good Rabbi.

Now, we can not blame those that have past associations with the man, prior to the book, anymore than we can blame Obama for his association with Rev. Wright prior to a few startling revelations about his views.

However, given that the Jewish community both in Israel and abroad lobbies hard for hate crimes laws, and seek to punish those that say vile things about Jews, it will be interesting to see what the response will be towards this man, who would probably be jailed in Canada under our hate crimes legislation.

His Rabbinical order should cast him out, but I have heard nothing of the kind so far. In fact, I have not heard of any chastisement of any kind. Unless, anyone can prove otherwise, it would seem that this published viewpoint, seems to be accepted. If his rabbinical order does not cast him out, then it would stand to reason that his order accepts his viewpoint. although it would be a stretch to suggest they endorse it. This man is a head of a religious school in the occupied territories. Should he not, at the very least be relieved of his duties? I have heard nothing of the sort? Do we not hear endless complaints about how the Palestinian children are 'brainwashed' to hate the Jews. It seems that the pendulum swings both ways.

It would be very interesting if the Rabbi tried to visit Canada. Would our brave government deny him entry for his hateful opinions, and threat to national security? Or more likely, would our Liberal and Conservative sycophantic government dare not say anything, for fear that their might be a temporary breach in their otherwise continuous stream of pandering to the Jewish lobby in Canada?

[naomiglover]

The settlers come with different degrees of extremist views.

A mosque in a village in the north of the Israeli-occupied West Bank has been damaged in an arson attack.

Attackers set fire to bookshelves and a large area of carpet in the mosque, and sprayed graffiti in Hebrew on a wall.

Palestinian residents of the village of Yasuf clashed with Israeli soldiers investigating the attack. Eyewitnesses say settlers were responsible.

Attacks on Palestinians by Jewish settlers are increasing. A number of incidents have been captured on video.

One of the slogans sprayed on the wall of the mosque in Yasuf read: "Get ready to pay the price," Israeli public radio reported. Another read: "We will burn you all."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8407832.stm

Edited December 13, 2009 by naomiglover

[Guest American Woman]

I think most of us can agree, that this particular representative of the Jewish faith, is an abominable individual.

So, he has written a book that suggests there is nothing morally wrong. He is the not the first Jewish religious leader to express similar thoughts.

Could you provide me with information to back that up, please? I'd appreciate names and links to other Jewish leaders who have expressed thoughts along the line that there's nothing morally wrong with killing non-Jews, even babies, if they will grow up to harm Jews. Thank you.

If one were to accept his views that it is OK for Israeli Jews to kill non-Jewish children if they are likely to grow up and do harm (aka Palestinians), then it seems likely that Israeli Jews are likely to do harm to Palestinians, in which case, it seems perfectly just (by the same logic)for the Palestinians to kill Israeli children before they can do this harm as advocated by the Good Rabbi.

Except one isn't accepting his views. Furthermore, Palestinians have purposely targeted and killed Israeli children.

Now, we can not blame those that have past associations with the man, prior to the book, anymore than we can blame Obama for his association with Rev. Wright prior to a few startling revelations about his views.

Exactly. Yet it's being insinuated that the Israeli government "supports" this line of thought because of some money given to him 3-4 years prior to the book.

However, given that the Jewish community both in Israel and abroad lobbies hard for hate crimes laws, and seek to punish those that say vile things about Jews, it will be interesting to see what the response will be towards this man, who would probably be jailed in Canada under our hate crimes legislation.

First of all, Canada's hate laws have nothing to do with the rest of the world; but if he would be jailed in Canada for saying what he did, I have to say Canada is pretty selective in who they jail in light of what Omar Khadr's mother has said and done and gotten away with.

I do agree that Israel should condemn this book and the man's views, but considering the silence coming out of Palestine regarding Hamas, which not only talks but acts, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

His Rabbinical order should cast him out, but I have heard nothing of the kind so far.

Just as Muslim leaders who have said/taught the very same thing regarding infidels have not been cast out.

In fact, I have not heard of any chastisement of any kind.

There's a lot of silence going on in the world right now.

Unless, anyone can prove otherwise, it would seem that this published viewpoint, seems to be accepted.

I see. So unless one speaks out, unless one defends oneself against something that someone else said, they are guilty; guilty until they prove their innocence. In that case, there are one helluva lot of guilty people from all religions, from all corners of the earth.

If his rabbinical order does not cast him out, then it would stand to reason that his order accepts his viewpoint. although it would be a stretch to suggest they endorse it.

So I have to assume, in light of all the Muslim leaders who have not been cast out, that you believe Muslims accept the radicals' viewpoints.

This man is a head of a religious school in the occupied territories. Should he not, at the very least be relieved of his duties? I have heard nothing of the sort? Do we not hear endless complaints about how the Palestinian children are 'brainwashed' to hate the Jews. It seems that the pendulum swings both ways.

Sure, we hear about it. We're hearing about this man, too; but "hearing" and "acting" are two very different things, and to my knowledge, no one who teaches hate against infidels has been relieved of their duties in the Arab world.

Edited December 13, 2009 by American Woman

[jbg]

Evem the thread title is inflammatory.

[dre]

Proof, please, that he represents "many settlers." I'm assuming you have quotes from settlers saying that he represents them, or I'm sure you would never have made such a damning accusation, so I'd appreciate some links backing up your claim.

I dont know if that could ever be proven.

I definately think you could prove that both sides are extremely racist and consumed by hatred. At least a lot of them.

These are some recent statistics by the Israeli Association for Civil Rights.

Some 55 percent of Jewish Israelis say that the state should encourage Arab emigration;

78 percent of Jewish Israelis oppose including Arab parties in the government;

56 percent agree with the statement that Arabs cannot attain the Jewish level of cultural development;

75 percent agree that Arabs are inclined to be violent. Among Arab-Israelis, 54 percent feel the same way about Jews.

75 percent of Israeli Jews say they would not live in the same building as Arabs.

55% of Israelis favor "transfer" or various other flavors of ethnic cleansing?

Almost 80% say that Arabs should be kept out of government based on race?

75% would not live in the same building as an Arab?

Thats a lot of sick and twisted fucks over there, and a lot of insane racist religious zealotry... On BOTH sides of the security wall.

People that find themselves defending either side should be real careful of who their climbing into bed with.

Edited July 9, 2010 by dre