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Let me start this off with I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.

Just giving a warning, I have a radical different view then most, but if we all thought the same, then none of us would really be thinking at all.

where do i begin. lets start with the war on drugs.

I fail to see any pros to keeping any drug illegal, yes even heroin.

You think that we would of learned with alcohol that prohibition doesn't work, guess not. If you want people to stop doing drugs, education is the key. Educate people on the dangers of drugs, and if they still want to do them they should be allowed to. I believe in personal liberties. If someone gets addicted, it should be treated as medical/health problem, not a crime. If society was more open and sympathetic to addicts, they would be more likely to seek help for their addiction. The governments role is not to tell us what we can and cannot do with our bodies.

With drugs also comes gangs and gang violence. We made drugs illegal and pushed the market underground. Gangs make a lot of money off selling drugs so I can't see them stopping anytime soon. We are funding gangs by keeping drugs illegal. When two gangs have any disputes, they can't go and solve their problems threw the courts, so they usually turn to violence or other illegal activities to solve the problem. So we're just creating more problems.

k, what next...how bout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I know a lot of you are going to call me crazy for this but it's what I believe. I do believe 9/11 was an inside job. Please if you disagree don't call me stupid, just explain your view. There are many reasons why I think this, but the most obvious is world trade center 7 collapsing. It was not hit by a plane and collapsed at free fall speed. I would encourage people to look up operation northwoods. It was a plan for the CIA to commit acts of terrorism on US cities to create public support to go to war with Cuba in the 60's. Kennedy rejected it. That being said, I think the war in Afghanistan has no merit, neither does the war in Iraq, or the war on terrorism in general. Over a million Iraqis have died since the war started, mostly civilians, and the US is still trying to justify the war. This also leads to a bigger problem, a corrupt US government. Have people not noticed that the US has become fascist. It is no longer a nation ran by and for the people, it is a nation ran by and for the corporations. You think this would be obvious with the recent bailouts.

o, i would like o add another thing. How come when someone straps a bomb to their chest and blows them self up and kills people it's considered monstrous and inhumane but when we use missiles to kill people it's not monstrous and inhumane???

Ok, now lets start talking about the economy.

It's a giant ponzi scheme. It's designed to get the rich richer. 2% of the worlds population owns over 50% of its wealth...50% of the worlds population lives on less then $5 a day. We've put man on the moon and yet we still haven't solved poverty. Why do people think it's ok for billionaires to fly around in private jets and have every luxury while there is a growing number of people who live on the streets and are constantly looking for food. Is it because money says its okay for that to go down?

Money pretty much controls the world, so in theory, if you controlled money, you would control the world, right? Central banks around the world issue and regulate the money supply, central bankers control central banks. So in theory, central bankers control the world. Let me talk about the American dollar because it is the world reserve currency and what happens to the american economy effects the world as we saw with the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Ok, so the federal reserve is America's central bank. It is a private bank. They gave a monopoly of printing money out of thin air to a private corporation, does that sound stupid to anyone else? If america wants money, they have to go threw the federal reserve system, they get their money as a loan at interest from the central bank...and where do they get the money to pay the interest? well from the federal reserve. And if they get there money as a loan, that means money is created out of debt, money=debt, debt=slavery. So much for livin in a free nation, and yes, this is how it works in Canada too, and in England and japan and the EU and many more countries. You know how back in the day, there was a ruling class that rules over the land(kings and emperors). That never left, we just call those people central bankers and corporate leaders now.

Isn't it ironic that freedom isn't free.

I really don't see the point of money, I think we need to go on a resource based economy. Instead of us all competing, we could work together, i know i know, it sounds crazy...man working together. We would finally solve poverty because well, nobody would be poor because money doesn't exist. We wouldn't need stupid copyright laws or patents, man are those stupid.

O yes, H1N1, almost forgot. who got the shot?

Please don't tell me the media propaganda got to you. We have to change the way we look at health. We're looking to medicine to get us healthy, medicine has nothing to do with getting healthy. Nutrition is the key to health. Disease is caused when cells are either getting too many toxins or not enough nutrients. If your cells are healthy, you are healthy. Health is a choice. Why do hospitals serve jello and popsicle. We got to get the fluoride out of our water supply because yes, fluoride is a poison, lets use ozone to clean our water instead. We should get rid of preservatives in food, stop consuming aspartame and stop using pesticides. We should be eating food as nature provided it and stop using chemicals, its not natural for our bodies to consume.

Back to the vaccines, I know not all vaccines contain thimerosal, but some do. Thimerosal is 49% mercury and has been linked to the autism pandemic. Mercury should not be injected into your body.

i feel like im just preaching now. so ill stop. I still got a lot to say but i'll wait to see what you guys have to say.

Moderator, if this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it.

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Let me start this off with I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.

Just giving a warning, I have a radical different view then most, but if we all thought the same, then none of us would really be thinking at all.

My favorite author once said "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity".

I tend to agree with this, but do not place myself above any of my fellows. I have said and done stupid things in the past, and probably will again in the future. All of us have done the same.

where do i begin. lets start with the war on drugs.

Okay...

I fail to see any pros to keeping any drug illegal, yes even heroin.

(I clipped the quote for sake of brevity)

I would tend to agree with this, for most of the reasons you've cited.

k, what next...how bout the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Okay...

I know a lot of you are going to call me crazy for this but it's what I believe. I do believe 9/11 was an inside job.

I don't buy into this. While I believe that Bush et al were aware that something big was about to happen, and I base this on the fact that most Washington VIPs were told not to fly on 9/11, I do not think that Washington and-or the CIA actually engineered the fall of the towers. The internet has led to a huge proliferation of conspiracy theories, and those that buy into such theories. I simply do not buy into most of these. You choose to do so. Your prerogative.

Please if you disagree don't call me stupid, just explain your view. There are many reasons why I think this, but the most obvious is world trade center 7 collapsing. It was not hit by a plane and collapsed at free fall speed.

I don't recall the tv show I watched which debunked this train of thought, but having a fairly good grounding in science, I found nothing they said on that show to be out of order.

(Notice I haven't called you "stupid" or any other names yet??? So far so good:)

I would encourage people to look up operation northwoods. It was a plan for the CIA to commit acts of terrorism on US cities to create public support to go to war with Cuba in the 60's. Kennedy rejected it. That being said, I think the war in Afghanistan has no merit, neither does the war in Iraq, or the war on terrorism in general. Over a million Iraqis have died since the war started, mostly civilians, and the US is still trying to justify the war. This also leads to a bigger problem, a corrupt US government. Have people not noticed that the US has become fascist. It is no longer a nation ran by and for the people, it is a nation ran by and for the corporations. You think this would be obvious with the recent bailouts.

I think a lot of this is over the top. Corporations have lobbies, which are a big deal in US politics. Saying the country is governed solely for the sake of those corporations is taking it too far. The fact that those corporations do have the money and power to put forward powerful lobbies does have a great deal of influence.

That being said, great influence has also been put forth by ordinary people acting in groups to protest various issues. To some degree, it balances.

i would like o add another thing. How come when someone straps a bomb to their chest and blows them self up and kills people it's considered monstrous and inhumane but when we use missiles to kill people it's not monstrous and inhumane???

To me, at least, I despise attacks against innocent bystanders, whether they are committed by military or insurgents.

As for attacks against military targets, I consider such acts to be underhanded, but not nearly as despicable as bombings of nightclubs, churches, mosques, or any other civilian target.

Ok, now lets start talking about the economy.

It's a giant ponzi scheme. It's designed to get the rich richer. 2% of the worlds population owns over 50% of its wealth...50% of the worlds population lives on less then $5 a day. We've put man on the moon and yet we still haven't solved poverty. Why do people think it's ok for billionaires to fly around in private jets and have every luxury while there is a growing number of people who live on the streets and are constantly looking for food. Is it because money says its okay for that to go down?

(Clipped again....same reason)

For sake of efficiency, if nothing else, there has to be some sort of agreed-upon currency. In fact it could be argued that civilization needs a currency to survive. Very few people will do something for nothing.

If we go back to the barter system, then only those who produce material goods will have anything to live on.

Even so, there will always be some with the smarts to wheel and deal and come out on top of their fellows.

As a question to you, how would you propose a modern infrastructure would be maintained without some sort of economic regulatory system in place??? Who would pay for roads, schools, water and sewer systems, etc???

What would keep companies in research and development without money??? How would there be any forward progression in technology, medicine, etc???

Isn't it ironic that freedom isn't free.

Freedom has never been free.

I really don't see the point of money, I think we need to go on a resource based economy. Instead of us all competing, we could work together, i know i know, it sounds crazy...man working together. We would finally solve poverty because well, nobody would be poor because money doesn't exist. We wouldn't need stupid copyright laws or patents, man are those stupid.

This I dispute. If I write a song, and am able to make some money via sales of that song, I feel I am perfectly entitled to protect this claim, that the song, as intellectual property, belongs to me.

If I invent a device which can make your life nicer, I should be able to reap some rewards for coming up with the idea.

OTOH, if you were to write a great story, one which could easily sell gazzillions of copies effectively making you rich, then why should I have any right to share in your profits??? I can certainly enjoy the story you've written, but what gives me any right to profit from it, or to feel that I should be able to enjoy it for free???

O yes, H1N1, almost forgot. who got the shot?

Not me, but not for the reasons you've cited.

Please don't tell me the media propaganda got to you. We have to change the way we look at health. We're looking to medicine to get us healthy, medicine has nothing to do with getting healthy. Nutrition is the key to health. Disease is caused when cells are either getting too many toxins or not enough nutrients.......

I view medecine's role as that of damage control, rather than preventative. Medecine itself, I agree, should not be the preventative measure. Our own common sense and good habits should fill that role.

However, "sense" is not common. See my comment above regarding the power of human stupidity.

I still got a lot to say but i'll wait to see what you guys have to say.

Well, my friend, there you have it.....what I have to say in reply to the points you've posted so far.

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Let me start this off with I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.

Just giving a warning, I have a radical different view then most, but if we all thought the same, then none of us would really be thinking at all.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your views, just in the way you express them. You could likely take your 5-ish examples and start separate threads if they don't already exist. The difficulty with your post is that it could result in long slice & dice replies that are sometimes tedious enough for some - me among them - to not spend any decent amount of time on them. To each their own of course, I am just saying...

So I can only look at one point:

I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.

I cannot separate people from society since societies are made up of people with a defined, mostly voluntary relationship. As per PR's Heinlein quote above, are you really saying that people are stupid?

(sidenote: one of my favourite quotes is Hanlon's Razor which states, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.")

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I know a lot of you are going to call me crazy for this but it's what I believe. I do believe 9/11 was an inside job. Please if you disagree don't call me stupid, just explain your view. There are many reasons why I think this, but the most obvious is world trade center 7 collapsing. It was not hit by a plane and collapsed at free fall speed. I would encourage people to look up operation northwoods.

The fact that you believe this pretty much begs me to call you stupid...but I won't. :lol:

I've read up on the conspiracy theories. I've seen videos online of some of the main theorists, and while it MAY seem like there's really compelling evidence to suggest the 'conspiracy', there are some absolutely GAPING holes that make it pretty much impossible to be true.

First off you have the quasi-engineers out there telling you that the towers fell as if it was a controlled demolition. They say a collapsing building cannot free-fall like the twin towers did and the fact that they fell right down instead of toppled etc pretty much proves that it wasn't an attack.

For this to be true then you would have had to have had demolitions teams in both towers for weeks drilling through the walls and planting explosives into the giant metal supports holding the buildings up. Nobody saw this.

Second, when explosives go off they cause massive vibrations. There are networks of seismic detectors in the ground in New York city, and the data from that day and time show that there wasn't any explosions going off in the buildings prior to collapse. In any OTHER controlled demolition, seismic activity shows a short series of loud vibrations PRIOR to the collapse and THEN the actual collapse happens. There was no such indication.

Finally, and the most damning evidence against the bullshit theory, is the fact that there would have to be hundreds, if not thousands, of people involved in such a conspiracy and there's no chance in a million years that someone wouldn't have had a guilty conscience and blown the whistle. The White House, the CIA, the telecommunication companies, the military, civic engineers and all sorts of other people would have had to been in cahoots to make it work, and it's nothing short of retarded to suggest that this would work.

If you want I can also try to debunk all the other garbage support people have for the conspiracy (ie the cellphone calls everyone is saying are fake, or the failure to scramble fighters after the first crash etc) but only if you really need me to.

People like you are willing to believe ANYTHING that suggests 'society' and 'the man' are out to get you.

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The 9/11 inside job theory is nuts. I wouldn't have put it past some of the incompetent corrupt bastards that were in power at the time to consider it, but there's just no way they could have pulled it off without cocking it up.

They just got a lucky break is all, the terrorists and the Bush administration. Both got more than they could have dreamed of or prayed for.

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Guest TrueMetis

Please don't tell me the media propaganda got to you. We have to change the way we look at health. We're looking to medicine to get us healthy, medicine has nothing to do with getting healthy.

I dispute that medicine is just as much about keeping us healthy as it is getting us healthy. I would rather get a shot and maybe feel some slight effects from it than get H1N1 and end up in the hospital.

Nutrition is the key to health.

For some desease yes but there are some deseases they you can get regardless of nutrition. The only way to prevent those is with a vaccine. (H1N1 is one of those deseases) Or you could live like a shut in. It doesn't matter how much you wash your hands eventually you will get sick.

Disease is caused when cells are either getting too many toxins or not enough nutrients.

Oh so your one of those nuts. Ever hear of bacteria? They will infect you regardless of you nutrition. Good nutrition may help you to fight them off but many bacteria are more than aggresive enough to overcome your immune system.

If your cells are healthy, you are healthy. Health is a choice.

It is normally but since when is cancer a choice?

Why do hospitals serve jello and popsicle.

Because sometimes comfort is more important than nutrition. Most of the food you get in a hospital is nutritious but sometimes you need somethings to make you feel better. Staying in hospitals for long periods of time sucks.

We got to get the fluoride out of our water supply because yes, fluoride is a poison, lets use ozone to clean our water instead.

The dose make the poison. The levels of fluoride in most water isn't even close to poisonious, and most water supplies would become polluted if they didn't use chemicals to clean them.

We should get rid of preservatives in food, stop consuming aspartame and stop using pesticides. We should be eating food as nature provided it and stop using chemicals, its not natural for our bodies to consume.

Withour preservatives many places would be unable to get food because it would rot before it got there. Your solution may be for them to move but that would mean more people on a smaller area closer to land used for farming. eventually to many people will lead to some of that farmland being turned into land for housing leading to the same problem.

Without pesticides food production would drop and even more people would starve, and the evidence that pesticides have caused harm is circumstantial at best they can't even prove DDT caused any harm.

Define "natural" some of the chemicals people produce in are bodies are very poisonious, we even use some of them. If your going to say that these chemicals aren't "natural" and we shouldn't eat them I'll counter with nothing we eat is "natural", not the meat that was made through selective breeding as are the crops. So since we can't eat meat or crops because they aren't "natural" what should we eat? Hell the houses we live in aren't "natural" geuss we shouldn't live in those.

Back to the vaccines, I know not all vaccines contain thimerosal, but some do. Thimerosal is 49% mercury and has been linked to the autism pandemic. Mercury should not be injected into your body.

The does make the poison, I could safely inject 10X the thimerosal that is in a vaccine into my body. There has never been a link between thimerosal and autism only correlation but correlation does not mean causation. Off the top of my head I suspect the reason for increased autism diagnosis is becuase we now have the ability to diagnosis it. 10 years ago we didn't have a good way to diagnosis it, we didn't even have a good way 5 years ago.

Edited by TrueMetis
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Let me start this off with I think society is well..stupid. Not the people in society, just society in general.

Your whole post is not really about society being stupid. It is about the stupid things governments do.

The war on drugs, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, the economy, H1N1.

Because someone's life was destroyed by drugs. Government will help us stay away from drugs. Do we need this help?

The war in Afghanistan and Iraq? Knee jerk reactions to terrorist acts in my view. Islam needs to be brought into the 20th century where people have rights, even women, children, foreigners and infidels. This is happening in their countries as they look to the west for prosperity, freedom and liberty but it is a slow evolutionary process not without turmoil within their own society that may be exported to the influential societies their governments see as threatening to their power. I suppose what the US, and perhaps the rest of the world would like is to immediately bring these nations frozen in time up to the present.

9/11

I agree with Moonlight Graham on this. He said it well. There is no Conspiracy. There is only the stupidity of government.

H1N1

I didn't get a shot and don't intend to. It's the flu and 3-4 thousand Canadians die from the flu every year. Some years have especially virulent strains such as in 1918.

Is there going to be a panic every year now? Who is going to scare the bejeebers out of society every year - The government, on the advice of drug companies selling vaccines.

The economy

Well,our economy is macromanaged by the government what more can be said.

All in all government is about using force and using it without reason is stupid. Acting for the "collective good" seems to always somehow exclude me.

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Guest American Woman
They just got a lucky break is all, the terrorists and the Bush administration. Both got more than they could have dreamed of or prayed for.

Yes, I'm sure the Bush administration was dreaming of, and praying for, the death of Americans and was just tickled pink that thousands of Americans were killed, injured, orphaned, widowed, on 9-ll.

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maple_leafs182 Icon

Please if you disagree don't call me stupid, just explain your view. There are many reasons why I think this, but the most obvious is world trade center 7 collapsing.

The so-called conspiracy makes no sense. No individual person aside from the president and those at the top echelons of power would have the authority to make such a project happen, and it would be doomed to failure and exposure. And why would they do it ? The ostensible goal is to drum up support for an invasion of Afghanistan, yet they didn't need to kill Americans to invade Iraq (first or second time), Granada, to bomb Libya, or Panama etc. etc.

As Chomsky says, this type of nonsense distracts from real issues that the left should focus on - and anyway, as such it is more likely to be a conspiracy of the right to distract people from real issues.

Edited by Michael Hardner
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Thanks for the replies, keep em' coming.

this post is kinda all over the place...

I'll start off with 9/11

In the 30's Hitler staged a false flag terrorist attack on his own parliament(the Reichstag) and blamed it on foreign terrorists. In doing so, he created fear in the people. They willingly started giving up their liberties so Hitler could protect them. Exactly what is happening in America. Ever hear of the Patriot Act?

Benjamin Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

Hitler "Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death".

I would like an explanation to how wtc 7 collapsed at near free fall speed, it was not hit by a plane.

If your going to bring down buildings in front of an audience of millions, you probably aren't going to use traditional methods to take it down.

the steal columns should of still been erect unless they were cut at the bottom.

Why is there so much trust in government, it's like after ww2 happened people can't fathom tyranny in government is possible.

We shouldn't use fluoride in our water. If there is some evidence that fluoride is good for your teeth, sell separate fluoride water, don't force the entire population to drink it. We should be using Ozone(O3) to clean our water, like certain cities in Germany do. Drinking ozone too will help kill bacteria for bacteria cannot survive when in contact with oxogen. It's the third oxygen molecule which is unstable that kills the bacteria.

For how our new society should look, i would recommend you look up The Venus Project.

As our technology evolves so should our society, we have computers, robots, the internet. We should be using these technology to better mankind, not for greed and profit. We should be working to creating automatized farms. Poverty shouldn't exist, we choose for it to exist.

There would still be progress in technology, most inventors invent because they have a passion for what there doing, this will continue. Einstein, Tesla, they continued his studies because he had a passion for it.

I do not believe people should be entitled to money for creating songs. We have the internet(which should be free to all citizens

) to distribute songs, programs, movies, ect... for free. Copyright and Patents are there for profit reasons. Without money, they would become useless.

I understand why in our current society people would want money in return, money buys liberties.

Autism and vaccines..I would recomend you looking up Robert F. Kennedy Jr. exposing the fraudulent science that covers up the link between the two.

I'm sure you guys heard of climate gate, the e-mails that expose the fraud of global warming. This is serious stuff.

There is Science, then there is TabaccoScience. It's lies.

I still don't understand why the world reserve currency the American Dollar is issued and regulated by the Federal Reserve which is a private company. Something as influential as money should not be in the hands of few.

As for this recession, I will have to say it's a lie as well. This is a depression.

The economy isn't getting better, have any of you been paying attention to the commercial real estate market in the states, it's doing terrible, look at hotels. This bubble hasn't even burst yet.

I'm thinking after the terrible sales that will occur this holiday season, more bankruptcies will occur causing the next collapse in the market.

And with all these bailouts and the new healthcare reform that will cost billions, this will all lead to inflation, if not hyperinflation. We should be listening to people like Peter Schiff who predicted the sub prime mortgage collapse years before it happened. He is saying things are going to get worse.

and for some more controversy. I mean this is bigger then 9/11 being an inside job.

I don't believe Prime Ministers, and Presidents are at the top. The media portrays them as being at the top so the men really at the top are never exposed because they are not accepted to exist. I believe the "Ruling Class" still exists. The Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, The Builderberg Group. The men behind the curtain. They have an agenda, the New World Order, which is a one world government and a one world financial system. They just have to create problems that will push society towards their agenda. If there is a treaty signed at Copenhagen, it will be the first steps towards a one world government. And if the dollar collapses, which I believe it will, that too will be leading us to a one world financial system.

And please, i would love for to be proven wrong on this stuff, so don't be shy.

I want a serious debate on this. I am not the only one who thinks this way either.

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Guest TrueMetis

We shouldn't use fluoride in our water. If there is some evidence that fluoride is good for your teeth, sell separate fluoride water, don't force the entire population to drink it. We should be using Ozone(O3) to clean our water, like certain cities in Germany do. Drinking ozone too will help kill bacteria for bacteria cannot survive when in contact with oxogen. It's the third oxygen molecule which is unstable that kills the bacteria.

There is a lot of evidence that flouride is good for you teeth. Flouride is also found naturally in most water, when we add it they don't put in more that the normal level.

I hate to use wiki as my source but

Water fluoridation is the controlled addition of fluoride to a public water supply to reduce tooth decay. Fluoridated water has fluoride at a level that is effective for preventing cavities; this can occur naturally or by adding fluoride.[2] Fluoridated water operates on tooth surfaces: in the mouth it creates low levels of fluoride in saliva, which reduces the rate at which tooth enamel demineralizes and increases the rate at which it remineralizes in the early stages of cavities.[3] Typically a fluoridated compound is added to drinking water, a process that in the U.S. costs an average of about $0.92 per person-year.[2][4] Defluoridation is needed when the naturally occurring fluoride level exceeds recommended limits.[5] A 1994 World Health Organization expert committee suggested a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per liter), depending on climate.[6] Bottled water typically has unknown fluoride levels, and some domestic water filters remove some or all fluoride.[7]

Dental cavities remain a major public health concern in most industrialized countries, affecting 6090% of schoolchildren and the vast majority of adults,[8] and costing society more to treat than any other disease.[9] Water fluoridation prevents cavities in both children[10] and adults,[11] with studies estimating an 1840% reduction in cavities when water fluoridation is used by children who already have access to toothpaste and other sources of fluoride.[2] Although water fluoridation can cause dental fluorosis, which can alter the appearance of developing teeth, most of this is mild and usually not considered to be of aesthetic or public-health concern.[10] There is no clear evidence of other adverse effects. Moderate-quality studies have investigated effectiveness; studies on adverse effects have been mostly of low quality.[12] Fluoride's effects depend on the total daily intake of fluoride from all sources. Drinking water is typically the largest source;[13] other methods of fluoride therapy include fluoridation of toothpaste, salt, and milk.[14] Water fluoridation, when feasible and culturally acceptable, has substantial advantages, especially for subgroups at high risk.[8] The U.S. Centers for Disease Control listed water fluoridation as one of the ten great public health achievements of the 20th century;[15] in contrast, most European countries have experienced substantial declines in tooth decay without its use, primarily due to the introduction of fluoride toothpaste in the 1970s.[3] Fluoridation may be more justified in the U.S. because of socioeconomic inequalities in dental health and dental care.[16]

Water fluoridation's goal is to prevent a chronic disease whose burdens particularly fall on children and on the poor.[17] Its use presents a conflict between the common good and individual rights.[18] It is controversial,[19] and opposition to it has been based on ethical, legal, safety, and efficacy grounds.[20] Health and dental organizations worldwide have endorsed its safety and effectiveness.[3] Its use began in the 1940s, following studies of children in a region where higher levels of fluoride occur naturally in the water. Researchers discovered that moderate fluoridation prevents tooth decay,[21] and as of 2004 about 400 million people worldwide received fluoridated water.[22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

I also want to point out that O3 is very poisonious and can cause adverse health effects in as little concentrations as 40 parts per billion (to put that into perspective CO2 is dangerous at 10000 parts per million). It killing bacteria is not neccesary and can be bad because most of the bacteria in our body is needed and without it we would die. Flouride on the other hand is not that poisonious and only kills the bacteria that cause tooth decay. Oh and the only bacteria who die when in contact with oxygen is archeabacteria normal bacteria needs oxygen. O3 though is not oxygen and is once again very deadly not just to bacteria but everything.

Onto this

Autism and vaccines..I would recomend you looking up Robert F. Kennedy Jr. exposing the fraudulent science that covers up the link between the two.

I'm sure you guys heard of climate gate, the e-mails that expose the fraud of global warming. This is serious stuff.

There is Science, then there is TabaccoScience. It's lies.

Your evidence is an attorney? :lol: He specializes in enviromental law no less. How about an actual study? Not just a correlation which is all people who make this claim ever had. The amount of Thimerosal (based on ethyl-mecurey) in a vaccine is negligable and you could probably inject many times that amount in a vaccine, plus ethyl-mecury has a half-life of 3.7 days in the body.

And there is this.

Three leading federal agencies (CDC, FDA, and NIH) have reviewed the published research on thimerosal and found it to be a safe product to use in vaccines. Three independent organizations [The National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)] reviewed the published research and also found thimerosal to be a safe product to use in vaccines. The scientific community supports the use of thimerosal in influenza vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/thimerosal_qa.htm

So one it is considered safe and two it is not used in vaccines for children so ovbiously it is not thimerosal. I'm going back to my original statement that increased autism diagnosis is caused by an increased ability to diagnosis autism. You want to talk about the other vaccine additives go ahead but thimerosol is perfectly safe.

In the 30's Hitler staged a false flag terrorist attack on his own parliament(the Reichstag) and blamed it on foreign terrorists.

Godwins law :lol:

Edited by TrueMetis
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John F Kennedy was the last true american president in my opinion. He signed executive order 11110 that gave the treasury the right to print government notes backed by silver. In the 5 months from signing this order to his assassination, they printed over 3 billion notes, this could of put the Federal Reserve out of business, after his assassination no president ever used that order.

I have some trust in the Kennedy family. did you watch the video? Jim Carey, you know the Canadian actor, he hosted the event.

Those 3 agencies are all government agencies, I know some might call it paranoia but I have little trust for the American government.

Just like with climategate and global warming, science can be manipulated

And Wikipedia isn't a good enough source.

Yet again, if fluoride is good for your teeth, sell it separately and don't force everyone to drink it.

this is from the consumer health organization of canada

"Ozone is tri-atomic oxygen (O3) - it is a highly charged, volatile particle. There is ozone and there is medical ozone, and they are very different. Ozone produced from air is toxic because of the nitrogen oxides, nitrites, nitric acids, sulphur dioxides and other compounds formed. This type of ozone is poisonous. Medical ozone is produced by passing clinical oxygen through high voltage tubes. We use only the cold spark method for medical purposes. This does not produce the poisonous gases, and that is the big difference".

Edited by maple_leafs182
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Guest TrueMetis

John F Kennedy was the last true american president in my opinion. He signed executive order 11110 that gave the treasury the right to print government notes backed by silver. In the 5 months from signing this order to his assassination, they printed over 3 billion notes, this could of put the Federal Reserve out of business, after his assassination no president ever used that order.

I have some trust in the Kennedy family. did you watch the video? Jim Carey, you know the Canadian actor, he hosted the event.

And that helps the attorney how? I'm releted to Louis Riel I don't get to use him to boost my credibility.

Those 3 agencies are all government agencies, I know some might call it paranoia but I have little trust for the American government.

Just like with climategate and global warming, science can be manipulated

sigh

Dental cavities remain a major public health concern in most industrialized countries, affecting 60–90% of schoolchildren and the vast majority of adults,[8] and costing society more to treat than any other disease.[9] Water fluoridation prevents cavities in both children[10] and adults...
Typically a fluoridated compound is added to drinking water, a process that in the U.S. costs an average of about $0.92 per person-year

Why exactly would you argue against that? You do know it would probably cost more if every individual person had to by it on their own right?

Oh and what about this?

Three independent organizations [The National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)] reviewed the published research and also found thimerosal to be a safe product to use in vaccines

Those are hardly government agencies even if the other 3 being government agencies was an arguement.

And Wikipedia isn't a good enough source.

Is

Petersen PE, Lennon MA (2004). ]"Effective use of fluorides for the prevention of dental caries in the 21st century: the WHO approach" (PDF). (source 8) http://www.who.int/oral_health/media/en/orh_cdoe_319to321.pdf. Retrieved 2008-12-17.

Sheiham A (2001). "Dietary effects on dental diseases" (PDF). Source 9

National Health and Medical Research Council (Australia) (2007) A systematic review of the efficacy and safety of fluoridation. (PDF). (Source 10)

"Consumer Price Index (estimate) 1800–2008. Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. Retrieved 2009-08-01. (Source 4)

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2001). "Recommendations for using fluoride to prevent and control dental caries in the United States Lay summary – CDC (2007-08-09). (Source 2)

This is were all the facts I mention come from. There is 97 sources in total.

Yet again, if fluoride is good for your teeth, sell it separately and don't force everyone to drink it.

Because it would be more expensive that way the current way it cost 92 cents per person per year. Less than a drop in the bucket, this is prevention what is more expensive 92 cents a year over a lifetime or to have a cavity filled? we are talking 100-300 dollars for a filling. So one filling costs the same as a 100 years of flouridization for one person.

this is from the consumer health organization of canada

"Ozone is tri-atomic oxygen (O3) - it is a highly charged, volatile particle. There is ozone and there is medical ozone, and they are very different. Ozone produced from air is toxic because of the nitrogen oxides, nitrites, nitric acids, sulphur dioxides and other compounds formed. This type of ozone is poisonous. Medical ozone is produced by passing clinical oxygen through high voltage tubes. We use only the cold spark method for medical purposes. This does not produce the poisonous gases, and that is the big difference".

How can It be different? If it is ozone, meaning it is O3, meaning it is made up of 3 oxygen atoms then it is poisonious in even small amounts. Unless they just call it Ozone but it is really a compound this is not true. Can you link me to an actual study? I've tryed searching but the only thing I have found other than the one source are obviously fake sites claiming they can cure aids. :lol: Sounds like another bogus snake oil sale.

After reading some of the source at the bottom of the wiki page on Ozone therapy (which uses "medical" ozone) only 1 that I read said ozone could cure anything but even it said that "breathing pure ozone at a concentration of 0.02 µg/mL leads to death in 4 h" then trys to pass that off as fine by saying "It should be recalled that oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide, the main gases in the air we breathe, are also toxic and lethal if breathed in abnormal concentrations" while forgetting you can breath 100% oxygen because it is the preasure of O2 that will kill you, Nitrogen has to be a levels were it is basically the only gas in the area, and CO2 has to be present at about 8% before it knock you unconcious. while ozone starts having negative effects at 0.1 to 1 ppm, one ten-thousandth of a percent (at this concentration most people get headaches, burning eyes, and irritation to the respiratory passages) while CO2 has to be at 10000 ppm or 1% of the air (will make some people drowsy).

Edited by TrueMetis
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If fluoride is so effective in preventing cavities, why is it still one of the biggest problems.

ok ok..like i said, if flouride does help with stopping cavities, sell it separately.

It would costs to much money to do that...

Does nobody else see the flaw of money.

As long as money is the driving factor it will always be and continue to be Profit before People.

That is not how the world should work.

This is why corporation constantly pollute the earth, because it's cheaper to do so.

I can garentee if there was a way for corporations to make money off solving poverty, they would be all over that and poverty would virtually cease to exist. But there is no money in solving poverty.

Is everyone really okay with how society is?

Obama just won the Nobel peace prize, he is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan.

Peace and War are polar opposites.

I bet if Russia started attacking Vancouver and over a million Canadian soldiers/civilians died we would be outraged. But if this happens in Iraq, we just look the other way. Why...why are we so fucked in the head. You cannot achieve peace by war.

Many of societies problems are a result of how society is set up, we need to change society.

This is just a random quote from the Simpsons It's Lisa talking to her mom when she becomes a cop.

" Mom, I know your intentions are good but aren't the police the protective force that maintains the status quo for the wealthy elite? Don't you think we ought to attack the roots of social problems instead of jamming people into overcrowded prisons?"

There is more crime in poverty stricken areas.

"The fact is there's actually good ozone and bad ozone. Ozone alerts naturally aim to warn against detrimental ozone. The good ozone is the ozone that's way up in the atmosphere that protects us against the harmful rays of the sun. The bad ozone is down here, near the ground.

And the latest study shows ground level ozone is associated with an increased short term death rate. Already, ozone has been associated with a wide range of human health problems, especially an increase of respiratory symptoms such as coughing and wheezing. But when the air quality gets bad, this new study shows it can kill. The research in the journal of the American Medical Association involves the collection of a very large data set of mortality rates in 95 large urban centers in the United States from 1987 to 2000. Dr. Michelle Bell, the Yale researcher who led the study, says, "We looked at whether or not morality rates are higher when the previous week's ozone levels are higher. So you can think of it by comparing two different weeks, a high ozone week and a low ozone week that are otherwise similar, with similar weather patterns, similar levels of other pollution, and see whether or not the mortality rates differ".

source http://www.empoweredhospital.com/ozone-death-study

I drink Ozone every day, I'm still alive, I haven't been sick in a couple of years either.

Health is a choice and nutrition is the key.

And as for a cure for aids, there might be one

As bad as this sounds, pharmaceutical companies make money off the sickness of the population, curing diseases would drastically affect their profits. So are they really trying to cure diseases.

Yet again, it's Profit before People.

Edited by maple_leafs182
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Guest TrueMetis

If fluoride is so effective in preventing cavities, why is it still one of the biggest problems.

Uh it's not.

ok ok..like i said, if flouride does help with stopping cavities, sell it separately.

It would costs to much money to do that...

Pretty much ya.

Does nobody else see the flaw of money.

As long as money is the driving factor it will always be and continue to be Profit before People.

That is not how the world should work.

This is why corporation constantly pollute the earth, because it's cheaper to do so.

How exactly would the world work without money? Would we have to go back to trading? We used to do that but we stopped because it doesn't work well.

I can garentee if there was a way for corporations to make money off solving poverty, they would be all over that and poverty would virtually cease to exist. But there is no money in solving poverty.

You just going to ignore all the corperation that are trying to solve poverty then?

Is everyone really okay with how society is?

Obama just won the Nobel peace prize, he is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan.

Peace and War are polar opposites.

I bet if Russia started attacking Vancouver and over a million Canadian soldiers/civilians died we would be outraged. But if this happens in Iraq, we just look the other way. Why...why are we so fucked in the head. You cannot achieve peace by war.

Many of societies problems are a result of how society is set up, we need to change society.

It worked in WW1 and WW2, the korean war, etc, etc.

This is just a random quote from the Simpsons It's Lisa talking to her mom when she becomes a cop.

" Mom, I know your intentions are good but aren't the police the protective force that maintains the status quo for the wealthy elite? Don't you think we ought to attack the roots of social problems instead of jamming people into overcrowded prisons?"

There is more crime in poverty stricken areas.

Well duh people in poverty are desperate, it's why communism and facism gained power.

"The fact is there's actually good ozone and bad ozone. Ozone alerts naturally aim to warn against detrimental ozone. The good ozone is the ozone that's way up in the atmosphere that protects us against the harmful rays of the sun. The bad ozone is down here, near the ground.

No the fact is all Ozone is deadly if you were to get Ozone from the stratoshpere and inhale it it would kill you. Ozone in the stratoshpere is only "good" because it is far enough away that it doesn't kill us.

And the latest study shows ground level ozone is associated with an increased short term death rate. Already, ozone has been associated with a wide range of human health problems, especially an increase of respiratory symptoms such as coughing and wheezing. But when the air quality gets bad, this new study shows it can kill. The research in the journal of the American Medical Association involves the collection of a very large data set of mortality rates in 95 large urban centers in the United States from 1987 to 2000. Dr. Michelle Bell, the Yale researcher who led the study, says, "We looked at whether or not morality rates are higher when the previous week's ozone levels are higher. So you can think of it by comparing two different weeks, a high ozone week and a low ozone week that are otherwise similar, with similar weather patterns, similar levels of other pollution, and see whether or not the mortality rates differ".

source http://www.empoweredhospital.com/ozone-death-study

I'm confused are you now admitting Ozone is deadly? (which it is)

I drink Ozone every day, I'm still alive, I haven't been sick in a couple of years either.

Health is a choice and nutrition is the key.

Ozone is a liqiud at -192 degrees so your obviously not drinking pure ozone. When Ozone is used to clean water it quickly converts into regular O2 (something I've just learned recently) so it is probably not in you water at all.

And as for a cure for aids, there might be one

If it had worked someone (the government, universities, the WHO) would have tested it.

As bad as this sounds, pharmaceutical companies make money off the sickness of the population, curing diseases would drastically affect their profits. So are they really trying to cure diseases.

Yet again, it's Profit before People.

Yes the first person to find a cure for aids would be rich, period. By your logic them developing the smallpox vaccine and erradicating smallpox was a mistake.

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No we wouldn't go back to bartering. I suggest you look up the venus project.

We would go to a resource based economy.

Humans would start working together, helping each other, instead of this greed driven world we live in now.

What corporations are truly trying to solve poverty?

Most of these organizations like habitat for humanity or salvation army, i'll admit they are doing good work, they are not really solving poverty.

It's the as same with the war on drugs, banning the use of drugs doesn't stop the problem of drugs being used. You got to go to the root of the problem.

Yes, it worked in ww1, ww2...i love how the world is at peace now and there are no more wars, its beautiful.

and yes, it is because they are desperate. They need food or money to buy food so they can survive. that is the problem, if food was universally free, and same with housing, there would be no poverty and a huge reduction in crime.

I do use ozone in my water. I have an ozone generator. Ozone has a half life of about an hour in cold water, 20 mins in warm water.

As you can tell, I am not dead.

Im not saying vaccines are bad. I know not all vaccines contain thimerosal, only the multi-dose vials do. We shouldn't be using the ones that do contain thimerosal. You should not be injecting mercury into the body.

as for the aids part..did you watch the video? it did work. It might now work for every case, but it did work for those patients.

and for fluoride and cavities. I don't think it's a big problem, i was just re stating what some1 else wrote.. I should start quoting people.

Edited by maple_leafs182
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No we wouldn't go back to bartering. I suggest you look up the venus project.

We would go to a resource based economy.

Humans would start working together, helping each other, instead of this greed driven world we live in now.

I read the Venus Project site. It's quite Utopian.

What corporations are truly trying to solve poverty?

Most of these organizations like habitat for humanity or salvation army, i'll admit they are doing good work, they are not really solving poverty.

It's the as same with the war on drugs, banning the use of drugs doesn't stop the problem of drugs being used. You got to go to the root of the problem.

Yes, it worked in ww1, ww2...i love how the world is at peace now and there are no more wars, its beautiful.

The fact is that progress is being made, that there is less war and less starvation.

If you see misery in the world, and things getting worse, then it's in your own mind and you need to sak yourself why you dwell on the negative when there's so much good going on.

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Guest TrueMetis

No we wouldn't go back to bartering. I suggest you look up the venus project.

We would go to a resource based economy.

Humans would start working together, helping each other, instead of this greed driven world we live in now.

Canada is a resource based economy so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

What corporations are truly trying to solve poverty?

Most of these organizations like habitat for humanity or salvation army, i'll admit they are doing good work, they are not really solving poverty.

It's the as same with the war on drugs, banning the use of drugs doesn't stop the problem of drugs being used. You got to go to the root of the problem.

Many corperations have projects not only to help people in their country but in third world countries to. So what have you done to solve poverty?

Yes, it worked in ww1, ww2...i love how the world is at peace now and there are no more wars, its beautiful.

Compared to the last... well since civilization started yes we are a peace.

and yes, it is because they are desperate. They need food or money to buy food so they can survive. that is the problem, if food was universally free, and same with housing, there would be no poverty and a huge reduction in crime.

You really expect people to provide their services for free. :lol:

I do use ozone in my water. I have an ozone generator. Ozone has a half life of about an hour in cold water, 20 mins in warm water.

As you can tell, I am not dead.

Apparently the amount of ozone in you water is very very very low or you would be at the very least in pain. Health Canada recommends not using an ozone generator. So do many other organizations.

Im not saying vaccines are bad. I know not all vaccines contain thimerosal, only the multi-dose vials do. We shouldn't be using the ones that do contain thimerosal. You should not be injecting mercury into the body.

Thumerosal is a preservitive if it wasn't in them many would go bad before they could be used. It's what is happening to the H1N1 shots.

as for the aids part..did you watch the video? it did work. It might now work for every case, but it did work for those patients.

It was claimed to work, give me a study showing that it works.

and for fluoride and cavities. I don't think it's a big problem, i was just re stating what some1 else wrote.. I should start quoting people.

or think for yourself.

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man, i can't believe how many of you are attacking my view on everything

All i want quite literally is world peace.

And as for countries. We don't need them, we are all one on this planet. One race, the human race.

We are not at peace in this world, that is crazy to even say that.

What have I done to solve poverty, all I have done is volunteered. I alone can't solve poverty, we all have to work together to solve poverty

I know thimerosal is a preservative. That doesn't change the fact that it is 49% mercury.

Why would people have to charge money for services if money didn't exist.

Tell me any service that people do now that can't be replaced by robots/computers in due time. The only ones that would be really hard is medical procedures, but what seems impossible now will become common ground in the future.

I do think for myself. The only problem is I don't fit societies mold and quite frankly I'm happy I don't.

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man, i can't believe how many of you are attacking my view on everything

All i want quite literally is world peace.

And as for countries. We don't need them, we are all one on this planet. One race, the human race.

We are not at peace in this world, that is crazy to even say that.

What have I done to solve poverty, all I have done is volunteered. I alone can't solve poverty, we all have to work together to solve poverty

I know thimerosal is a preservative. That doesn't change the fact that it is 49% mercury.

Why would people have to charge money for services if money didn't exist.

Tell me any service that people do now that can't be replaced by robots/computers in due time. The only ones that would be really hard is medical procedures, but what seems impossible now will become common ground in the future.

I do think for myself. The only problem is I don't fit societies mold and quite frankly I'm happy I don't.

If you want world peace and one world government as you say, then support the status quo - we're getting there slowly. You're more than a "glass is 1/2 empty" kind of guy, it's like there's 1/2 an inch of beer missing and you're saying that the glass is almost empty.

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I don't want a world government.

I want people to wake up and realize we don't have to live our lives like this with poverty, disease and war. We choose to live our lives like this. That's all it is, a choice.

"Some say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'd join us, and the world will live as one".

At least I know there are others who think like me. Miss you John Lennon.

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I don't want a world government.

I want people to wake up and realize we don't have to live our lives like this with poverty, disease and war. We choose to live our lives like this. That's all it is, a choice.

"Some say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'd join us, and the world will live as one".

At least I know there are others who think like me. Miss you John Lennon.

Why do you keep saying that poverty, disease and war are such a problem ? Do you know how much poverty has been reduced since the time of John Lennon ? The cold war, and its attendant regional wars have ended, and disease is on the decline too.

Why do you think otherwise ?

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cmon, over 50% percent of the earths population lives on less then $5 a day.

Yet 2% of the population owns 50%+ of it's wealth.

The days of emperors and kings, the ruling class if you will, they never left. They are just called central bankers and corporate leaders.

and yes poverty, war and disease are probably the 3 major problems in the world.

I can't think of any bigger problems. can you? maybe ill add pollution

All we need to live is Food, Water and shelter. and i guess oxygen...

We need to take a step back and look what we are doing to this planet and to each other. We're doing some horrible things, and in the name of what? profit and greed. It seems like there is very little love in this world. It kinda makes me sad

If we solved poverty, how much would the crime rate fall?

How many people would not be dieing from starvation?

Imagine a world without war and poverty. There would be peace on earth.

But for some reason most of us can't get passed our petty differences like race, religion, nationality, gay/straight, and whatever.

It's time mankind started doing something pure.

This video more or less sums up a bit of what i'm feeling on the inside

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfEuSNejejY

Edited by maple_leafs182
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cmon, over 50% percent of the earths population lives on less then $5 a day.

So? over 50% of the world can buy a fat hen and a dozen eggs for $2

Yet 2% of the population owns 50%+ of it's wealth.

Chickens cost more here.

Imagine a world without war and poverty. There would be peace on earth.

Yes I imagine a world without war would inflict peace on us...

I'm guess you're 16?

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