Cut backs to the military

[Smallc]

Hopefully within a year, we'll have two working subs.

[Topaz]

I haven't seen this government cut back on their spending yet. They gave themselves a raise this year or last. How many of us got a raise? The taxpayers pay for their travelling,and their families, they stay only in the best of hotel, east the best food and drink and if we could get the info on this it would be in the million of dollars I bet and this money could be put to better use instead of being abused!

[Smallc]

The taxpayers pay for their travelling,and their families, they stay only in the best of hotel, east the best food and drink

Prove it.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Smallc

[M.Dancer]

Prove it.

It's true the Conservatives east the best food and the NDP west the best beer...

[Smallc]

[Dave_ON]

The condition of our current security appartus and all that goes with that, belongs with the Citizens of Canada, it is after all what we the people of this nation are willing to live with, and accept...want to piont a finger, start with you and me.

I agree something needs to be done about the current state of our millitary, but I guess the question is what? Certainly cuts aren't the answer but I wonder if a shortfall in funding is the only reason for ill state of repair we find our forces in. Perhaps you can speak to this better Army Guy, but is it also a problem with the beurocracy at the DND? Is is solely that the fund aren't there or is it also that they're not wisely spent? We hear about goverment funding various equipment purchases and what not but surely that comes based on recommendations from the DND.

I guess my question is how do we go about fixing the issue? Further what are the issues as you see them being a member of the CF?

[Army Guy]

I agree something needs to be done about the current state of our millitary, but I guess the question is what?

I guess the first step is to get our government to listen, listen to the voters...and if the voters place the military high enough on what they are looking at for the next leader of this country it will spur them into action..I know a large majority of Canadians are not happy with the state of our military, and many have spoken on this fact be it writing thier MP's rallies, , i guess we (citizens) are not unifed on the priorty we want our government to spend our tax dollars on...

Certainly cuts aren't the answer but I wonder if a shortfall in funding is the only reason for ill state of repair we find our forces in.

Well it goes along way in explaining lots of things, but it's not the only reasons. Over all i would say we have great leadership at the military level, and i do believe our government has our best interests in mind for the most part....and Canadians do care...i just hope we can all unite, and fix a problem that has rotted the forces for sometime now...

but is it also a problem with the beurocracy at the DND?

I'm going to say yes, because of the way we are stuctured, and the way our government is structured which is a major road block in all the processes we have...we've created a mountain of red tape, and mounds of depts required to approve anything, from how much a soldier gets paided , to equipment purchases, basically everything the forces does...including combat...

Is is solely that the fund aren't there or is it also that they're not wisely spent?

Both, when you live by the minute, you spend for that minute...also the way the entire government is set up for departmental funding...here is your budget , spend it or you'll get less next year...and there has been lots of spending , for the sake of spending....when this cash could have been used for something else...but this is a problem across every dept..not just DND.

We hear about goverment funding various equipment purchases and what not but surely that comes based on recommendations from the DND.

Our infamous purcurement process...another Made in Canada solution, that does nothing for the military, or for that matter for any dept i'm sure....I'll explain, the military wants to purchase a new truck....

it provides specs to PWSG a civlian organization...which goes out to the world with these specs, and gathers up wide varity of choices....sounds fair, much like telling your wife, i need a power tool that can cut a straight line...you can imagine what selection you will get....anyways from there we test them...we pick which one we want, thats within governmental regulations, that pretty much limit where when and what you buy....then it goes back to the government, it decides or comes back chose again, this time chose one that can be built or provide something back to Canada...a good rule normally but this is how we ended up with the famous LSVW...the government kept sending it back for testing until it passed, because it could be built in BC, by western star...DND had to take it down to the desert in the states to do final testing...guess what we have a truck that runs and works great in the desert...but sucks any where else....Yes we did approve it, but really it was a matter of approve or keep what you have now....

The perfect system would be tell DND we will fund you this year x amount of dollars to purchase equipment...follow these basic guide lines, some equipment will need governmental approval, such as stratigic equipemt like some types of ships, Subs, nuk wpns...that sort of thing...but the basic stuff like trucks tanks, helos, etc etc that should be a no brainer...And the purchases we do make should be justifiable to the government...

guess my question is how do we go about fixing the issue? Further what are the issues as you see them being a member of the CF?

Take a look at just what DND is on the hook for, all these expenditures in Afghan, that are not CIDA related are coming out of DND coffers...every mission is...any internal missions we do such as the olimpics, aid to civil power come out of DND coffers...plus there is other depts that come out of DND coffers, the Dept of emergancy prepations and planing, and a few more they are small but cut close to a bil or more off an already tight budget....It's all laid out in detail on each depts funding break down...not sure of the exact web site but it can be goggled...

Further what are the issues as you see them being a member of the CF?

Not enough equipment to train on...bottom line there is just not enough vehs, wpns, night vision equipment, protective equipment, Basic clothing, we are short on everything....i don't mean a few here and there, most units only have 2/3 of thier peace time allotment of equipemt some less than 1/2...this shortage means DND moves it equipemt around alot....and when you place that muich demand on one piece it burns out much faster than expected, becomes even more expensive to maintain, etc etc ....for instance take the LAV III we have , when we purchased them we did not buy enough for each unit, now consider this all the equipement destroyed in training, subtract the equipment in use in Afghan, subtract the equipment destroyed in Afghan....and subtract the equipment just worn out because our numbers get smaller, and the remainder get used more....now we are in the market to replace the LAV III with serveral different makes and models...but we are once more going to buy less...because there simply is not enough funds...

I'd say another issue is how we treat our wounded soldiers, yes we are getting better at it, but there simply not enough doctors or shrienks out there....Soldiers face long waiting times to get help they need...

How we treat our families, always the last on every militaries list, but one of the most important... yes thier are family resource centers, and more programs in the last 5 years than we have ever had but more needs to be done in this area...not only providing our family members with the same access to doctors and shrienks....but also other programs such as affordable housing, more facilities, and other programs designed around the entire family unit....I once had a conversation with my son he was 9 years old on my last deplyment, it was a bad year for casualities, of course some of his classmates had lost thier fathers...and kids being kids made up a death poll...not all his class mates fathers where soldiers, yes the teachers put a stop to it, but it did play upon each of thier minds...this school now has a military support group, in which all military kids go in after school and just talk...and info is provided to them, things explained to them, rumours dispelled....

Don't get me wrong things are changing fast...but i would sacrifice some equipment purchases, to ensure our families have the best care money can buy...

Overall we are well paid, well lead, and have the support of the people, and in return you have a great military that is well motivated to serve this nation, i just hope we can fix our problems together before it's to late...

[Smallc]

the Dept of emergancy prepations and planing

I can't find such a department. If you're referring to the department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, it's a separate line item.

[Who's Doing What?]

Fine, then let them pay for it out of their salaries like ordinary Canadians must when we need to move for work.

As it is, DND pays for them to move from the time they enlist and includes the move after they get out too.

So your freedom and liberty are not worth the price of moving a soldier, who has sworn to give his life for you, from one base to another base?

Mexico is calling you.

I wear a poppy 365 days a year, and have for years. Everyday we should thank those people who gave the ultimate sacrifice so that can have something as simple a bloody political forum where we can post our oppinions without fear of reprisal.

Anyone who thinks we don't need to have a decent military, needs to watch more History channel.

We poke our nose at those "animals/savages/lawless/evil cultures and countries all over the world and then convieniently forget that without the great sacrifices of our soldiers we would be living in one of those same places and cultures.

How much is your life worth? $50,000? $100,000? When you can put a price on your life, then, we can do the math on what we owe those people who put their life on the line for you!

[Wilber]

Waste of my tax dollars is what it is. Privately run companies that choose to pay for it do so out of their own pockets not at the expense of the taxpayer.

Those who choose to enlist should be responsible for paying their own way there and not sucking off the public tit.

The taxpayer is their employer idiot.

[Canadian Blue]

I haven't seen this government cut back on their spending yet. They gave themselves a raise this year or last. How many of us got a raise?

Actually the federal government gave most civil servants a raise. I doubt you bitched about that.

The taxpayers pay for their travelling,and their families, they stay only in the best of hotel

That's how it works with most federal employees. As a private I would have a hard time moving my entire family, buying a home, and eating, etc. if it all came out of my own pay. Especially when you're given the order to do training with only two days notice. We don't stay in the best hotels either, whenever I was sent to another base I stayed in single quarters and would often find myself with three other members in a room.

Military families are separated for 6 to 9 months while on deployment. A friend of mine didn't get to be at the side of his wife for the birth of his first child due to deployment. If some Green Party supporter [Topaz] has a problem with it, then go bitch to the veterans at your local legion about how easy they had it in life compared to yourself.

if we could get the info on this it would be in the million of dollars I bet and this money could be put to better use instead of being abused!

This is what I hate about the left. It used to be about helping the working man, the farmer, and the small businessman, now it's just some suburban marxist [Topaz] bitching about how the government should be spending money on her bullshit.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Canadian Blue