Black Dog Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 Link. Eight Palestinians were killed and dozens were wounded yesterday afternoon when IDF tanks fired shells at a crowd of protesters in Rafah refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. Four of those killed were children under 14. Sixty-two people were wounded and about half of them, in a serious condition were taken to hospitals in Khan Yunis. More. The marchers had been surging toward the Tel Sultan neighborhood, the focal point of Israel's sweep into Rafah for the stated purpose of hunting militants and uncovering tunnels used to smuggle weapons across the border from Egypt. Where are the howls of condemnation? Whenever a Hamas bomber detonates themselves on a Israeli street, we hear outpourings of rage at the "inhumanity" of the Palestinians. Will anyone hold Israel to the same standards? The UN Security Council condemned the killings and Israel's in campaign in Rafah. In a rare move, the U.S. abstained (the closest Israel will get to a rebuke from them). In light of this and the continuing collective punishment meted out against israel, I don't see many options left for the Palestinian people. Likud will not negotiate, peaceful protests will be attacked. It's a fight for survival. I hope they will continue to try and use peaceful protest as a means of keeping Israel's crimes in the spotlight. But I also understand that some may see an all out war as the only chance. After all: they don't have anything to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Terrorist tortoises feel IDF's wrath. Ask to be directed to the latest wave of Israeli destruction in Rafah's al-Brazil neighbourhood and many fingers point towards the zoo. Amid the rubble of dozens of homes that the Israeli army continued yesterday to deny demolishing, the wrecking of the tiny, but only, zoo in the Gaza Strip took on potent symbolism for many of the newly homeless. The butchered ostrich, the petrified kangaroo cowering in a basement corner, the tortoises crushed under the tank treads - all were held up as evidence of the pitiless nature of the Israeli occupation. "People are more important than animals," said the zoo's co-owner Mohammed Ahmed Juma, whose house was also demolished. "But the zoo is the only place in Rafah that children could escape the tense atmosphere. There were slides and games for children. We had a small swimming pool. I know it's hard to believe, looking at it now, but it was beautiful. Why would they destroy that? Because they want to destroy everything about us." Whenever I think I've become so jaded about mankind's capacity for cruelty that nothing could surprise me, I read soemthing like this and feel nothing but rage and helplessness. We're continually treated to lectures about the cruelty of Saddam Hussein and other thugs, but where are the defender's of human rights when it's one of "ours" (a westernized, democratic nation) perpetrating such heinous acts? Silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberal Krusty Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I read soemthing like this and feel nothing but rage and helplessness. Conserve Black Dog. Try taking four ply toilet paper, splitting two of them apart and re-rolling them onto a couple of empty rolls. In the end you use just as much but it helps ease the mind. Peace. And hate Bush. And strongly dislike Kerry but just hate something. And conserve in order to release! Dream of how many people will die if the US ever leaves Iraq suddenly like they should. That would make any death in the Israeli Palestinian conflict pale in comparisson. We can only dream though. I like you hope that civil war errupts in Iraq, but dreams as sweet as those are unlikely to occur as long as the evil Bush Administration seeks oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 In that conflict, taking sides with either party is taking sides with evil. The best we can do is tell both sides they, or at least the groups in them that are pushing the conflict, are intolerable, and try to help those hurting on both sides. That's not to say we should not try to find means to stop the atttacks, encroachments and killing on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberal Krusty Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 The best we can do is tell both sides they, or at least the groups in them that are pushing the conflict, are intolerable, and try to help those hurting on both sides. I agree. They can be identified by their fat cat bank accounts. Follow the money. That's not to say we should not try to find means to stop the atttacks, encroachments and killing on both sides. Isn't this why we have a UN? They should go in and fight the US, get them out of Iraq, at least they can make a resolution or something for crying out loud!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remrem Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Liberal, The UN can't make a resolution because everytime they try it is vetoed by the US. When it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, Israel is giving a green light to reign terror on the Palestinians and it's reinforced anytime anyone from the international community objects to Israel or their actions. Remi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udawg Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't have an awful lot of sympathy for either side in this conflict... neither of them are willing to sit down to meaningful discussion. And when they do have a summit, neither side is willing to make even the smallest consessions to further the process. I'm not sure, but I think maybe they just don't know what they would do if they stopped fighting... where would be the focus for their lives? Anyway, in response to the latest news, taking out a zoo??? That just makes me sick. Was there a Palestinian militant faction hiding out in the koala pen? Maybe an arms cache under the dolphin tank? Or maybe the 4 year-olds on the slides were already trained and had their suicide missions planned out! Just f*cking ridiculous. I don't like to take sides often in the ME, but the Palestinians sure got my support for their complaints this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 What is it with you Liberals and hate-mongering.... all you do is hate, and you dont just hate other people you hate yourselves for your humanity. How can you live like that? o.0 In regards to this situation, if you do recall in WW2 the Jews getting almost exterminated off of earth, being relocated to Palestine and being given a sovereign state. What you might not recall is that ever since then the Arab people have not stopped trying to finish the extermination. Look it up, or buy a book. I recommend 'Israel's Wars: A History since 1947' by Efraim Karsh Link to Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...product-details Arabs are far from extinct, and the left-wingers have allied with them and since Liberals control the media you get a very leftist view of everything happening in the ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 In regards to this situation, if you do recall in WW2 the Jews getting almost exterminated off of earth, being relocated to Palestine and being given a sovereign state. What you might not recall is that ever since then the Arab people have not stopped trying to finish the extermination. Look it up, or buy a book. I recommend 'Israel's Wars: A History since 1947' by Efraim Karsh Your little oversimplification neglects to include the bit where the land that the jews were given in 1947 was already occupied. Those occupants were, in most cases, forcefully removed. As well, the last Arab-Israeli armed conflict was in 1973. Since then, israel has come to agreements with most of its Arab neighbours adn its biggest internal foe, the PLO (now the P.A.) has recognized Israel's right to exists. In other words, Israel's survival is no longer in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hahahaaa! The PLO accepts Israel's sovereignty? Then tell me BD why does it still exist? Onto your other point about it being occupied, your right it was. But guess who owned it first, waaaaay back before Palestine existed the nation of Israel existed, but they lost their land. Now they got it back, so I guess we could really follow the course of history far into our past to determine who really deserves the land but then you would be forced to admit that none of us are entitled to our current homelands correct? Lets stay as far from such abstract thought as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 The PLO accepts Israel's sovereignty? Then tell me BD why does it still exist? The PLO accepts Israel's right to exist. In fact the 1964 Charter of the PLO calls for the creation of a secular state where all religions are treated equally. But guess who owned it first, waaaaay back before Palestine existed the nation of Israel existed, but they lost their land. Now they got it back, so I guess we could really follow the course of history far into our past to determine who really deserves the land but then you would be forced to admit that none of us are entitled to our current homelands correct? Lets stay as far from such abstract thought as possible The fact of Palestinian ownership of what is now Israel is not "abstract", but entirely relevant, given the existence of the refugees and the sticking point that is the right of return. These are not abstracts but realities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remrem Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Hawk, Oh boo hoo, Holocaust, I want my own land crap. Get off it, one genocide, doesn't justify another. It sounds to me like you hate. It seems like you are willing to kill anything in sight to fulfill your agenda, but I guess hawks are meant to kill right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Oh boo hoo, Holocaust, I want my own land crap. Get off it, one genocide, doesn't justify another. It sounds to me like you hate. It seems like you are willing to kill anything in sight to fulfill your agenda, but I guess hawks are meant to kill right? what is the other genocide? Arab population is not going to be zero any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digby Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 a man named Ron Dart has a set of tapes out called who owns palistine? it goes through every fact like a court case , i think it does a good job at telling both sides of the arguement . you should be able to order these tapes on this web site http://www.cemnetwork.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutralabouteverything Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 This makes me sick but unfournately the israelis have a right to defend themselves cause if the palestinians win millions of jews will be slaughtered and unfournately sometimes the israelis go to far but you can't say that they have to keep out of palestine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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