Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Can't have it all. Somebody else will have a pony, and we'll have our comfy, quiet and uneventful retirement in this old age of democracy. To each, their own. It just seems to me that with the information age upon us that we should be able to expect better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Bum buddies ??? Sorry - I am so sorry - please forgive me for my ignorance - I believe that Bum Buddies is a highly politically incorrect gay slur. I take it back - There is no such thing as a bum buddy..that would infere that gay relationships are equal and each partner has equal opportunity when it comes to rear entry - no so - usually there is one donator and one pillow biter that usually is called the "bottom guy"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacoluthe Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I don't know where you guys take the idea that people are angry with tax. The Charest government was never as impopular in Quebec as when they try to cut the tax by a billion. Almost everything that move in Quebec stand up to say that they disagree with that and wanted instead the opposite: more money for the government. They fell under 18% of approuval rate (absolute lowest historical reccord in Quebec) with that project. One way to do that is to eliminate income tax altogether and replace it with a consumption tax based on a percentage designed to be revenue neutral to the existing framework. That would be the most unfair way to collect tax. Consumption tax are almost equally paid by everybody. People with low income still need to buy a lot of stuff to make a decent living and have usually almost the same overall spending than the middle class. Otherwise, such consumption tax are those who have the biggest impact on the economy, because it allow for some people (those earning a lot of money) to not pay tax by not buying stuff. And buying stuff is what make the economy turn round. Allowing people to both save tax AND put money aside of the economic circulation (ie: banking account or other form of long term investment) is the worst way to go: it's unfair for the poorer and it will also hurt the economy by encouraging savings. It would be much better to do it the other way around: removing all consumption tax and increasing the income tax. So let's finally be honest with ourselves - we don't really want anything new, debatable or resembling of movement or change. All we want is comfortable and smug retirement in the same smug old house built decades and generations back. And therefore we'll have nothing to complain when our only two "governable" parties offer us just that, without any real contest, or difference between them. I don't think so. People don't want the same things. I think that the majority of Canadians want changes. The point is that the progressive party (NPD, LPC and the Bloc... though for this one it's a special case) haven't managed to propose something that will rally the people around them already. In the last century, the LPC did great at this, but now they have somehow lost it. The ideas and plan of the NPD aren't rallying most of the voters, but their support is increasing as more and more see them as a better non-CPC vote than the LPC. Nice Post... Welcome to MLW. Very kind of you, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I don't think so. People don't want the same things. I think that the majority of Canadians want changes. The point is that the progressive party (NPD, LPC and the Bloc... though for this one it's a special case) haven't managed to propose something that will rally the people around them already. In the last century, the LPC did great at this, but now they have somehow lost it. The ideas and plan of the NPD aren't rallying most of the voters, but their support is increasing as more and more see them as a better non-CPC vote than the LPC. My views are based on the recent experiences, rather than rhetorics though. 1. (Very limited) mixed proportional referendum in Ontario -> "confusing" and "toooo complicated" 2. Green tax -> "tax grab" and "confusing" and "complicated" 3. Democratic coalition -> "unusual" and "suspicious of power grab" and "confusing" (while pretty much all the rest of the world has long learned to live with, and understand multi party politics). At some point, one should start wondering. If counting to three becomes too confusing, and letting go of a few cents - too burdensome, what kind of real "something" could there be to "rally people around"? As said, no point in throwing an array of choices before somebody who neither wants, nor need any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Liberal Party polled 23% today. Probably an outlier but how off is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not off at all I don't think. Who is Ignatieff? Where is he? No one seems to know....or care. Harper has stolen the show from everyone else...and he's not doing that bad right now. He may just get his majority come next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not off at all I don't think. Who is Ignatieff? Where is he? No one seems to know....or care. Harper has stolen the show from everyone else...and he's not doing that bad right now. He may just get his majority come next election. Yah along with that AR poll that came out an Ipsos poll came out today. They always under poll the NDP putting them sometimes at 10-11% but today the NDP were at 19% to the Liberals 24 so it seems less like an outlier and that Iggy is a bad leader. His once chance to nail Harper on something real in the house Torture he wasn't even in the house and hasn't said a word about it. He is not a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 It would be much better to do it the other way around: removing all consumption tax and increasing the income tax.The problem with that is that income taxes are less visible. The way to shrink government is to make the impact of taxes visible and immediate.Also (and this hurts me when I visit Canada) taxes on services hit tourists as well as Canadians. It is always good to find a way to tax people who don't vote in your elections. Another problem with a solely income tax-based system is that wealthy people (who pay most of those taxes) can easily structure the way they receive income to evade such taxes. Consumption taxes are somewhat more difficult, though not impossible, to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 The problem with that is that income taxes are less visible. The way to shrink government is to make the impact of taxes visible and immediate. Also (and this hurts me when I visit Canada) taxes on services hit tourists as well as Canadians. It is always good to find a way to tax people who don't vote in your elections. Another problem with a solely income tax-based system is that wealthy people (who pay most of those taxes) can easily structure the way they receive income to evade such taxes. Consumption taxes are somewhat more difficult, though not impossible, to avoid. I would suggest consumption taxes are the most fair way to go. Below the poverty line, there should be an across the board exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 THE KNIVES ARE OUT!!!! Dion's wife on Facebook says "Janine Krieber wrote on the popular social networking site Facebook that the party is in full collapse. She warns the Liberals will pay for refusing to endorse the historic left-wing coalition between the Grits, NDP and Bloc Quebecois that almost toppled the Tories last December." http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091121/national/liberals_krieber_facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 THE KNIVES ARE OUT!!!! Dion's wife on Facebook says "Janine Krieber wrote on the popular social networking site Facebook that the party is in full collapse. She warns the Liberals will pay for refusing to endorse the historic left-wing coalition between the Grits, NDP and Bloc Quebecois that almost toppled the Tories last December." http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091121/national/liberals_krieber_facebook Words that cannot be seen.....that is rich. Want to buy a bridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Words that cannot be seen.....that is rich. Want to buy a bridge? Actually someone has a copy I bet they will publish it on Monday when it wont be buried. I do like how you are accusing the media of making this up though. Edited November 21, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Words that cannot be seen.....that is rich. Want to buy a bridge? And the Globe has a copy up for you to read. Looks like your bridge is falling down as the knives come out. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/dions-wife-goes-rogue/article1372858/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Actually someone has a copy I bet they will publish it on Monday when it wont be buried. I do like how you are accusing the media of making this up though. Why do people insist on making things up. I didn't say anybody made anything up at all now did I. I said it was rich making an accusation that cannot be proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Why do people insist on making things up. I didn't say anybody made anything up at all now did I. I said it was rich making an accusation that cannot be proven. And it was proven look at the Globe article. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/dions-wife-goes-rogue/article1372858/ She says the Liberal party has died. The last paragraph it sounds like she is ready to join the NDP because lets face facts all the things she says she wants in a party haven't always been found in the Liberals but all the things she describes can be found in the NDP. Edited November 21, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 The party is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 The party is dead. Not dead. But when one accepts a knife in the back as an acceptable practice to attain power, then one should expect to be knifed in the back at some point in time. Iggy, just got served.OUCH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Let me amend that. It's dead right now...and possibly forever. Too bad there's no longer anyone here to defend the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Let me amend that. It's dead right now...and possibly forever. Too bad there's no longer anyone here to defend the party. What is there to defend? They just don't stand for anything right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alta4ever Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Either we are seeing a repeat of Britian about 90 years ago or a repeat of what happened to the PC's here in the 90's. Not sure what I would wish for more. Edited November 21, 2009 by Alta4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think that if Iggy is having problems dealing with being leader than maybe he should think about resigning. Not everyone is meant for politics and being the opposition party is tough, especially with the seating government as these immature********! So who would be next? Dominic Le Blanc, was running but dropped out when his dad got sick with cancer. Dominic, is very educated about the downside of politics and I've listen to him and I think he would be an excellent candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I think that if Iggy is having problems dealing with being leader than maybe he should think about resigning. Not everyone is meant for politics and being the opposition party is tough, especially with the seating government as these immature********! So who would be next? Dominic Le Blanc, was running but dropped out when his dad got sick with cancer. Dominic, is very educated about the downside of politics and I've listen to him and I think he would be an excellent candidate. I hear a lot about Bob Rae. On the subject of the Liberal party dieing for the third time this year the Liberals have hung Ruby out to dry. http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2009/11/nannygate-news/ Edited November 22, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Dominic Le Blanc, was running but dropped out when his dad got sick with cancer. Source? All the reports I read said LeBlanc and Rae dropped out to support Ignatieff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think that if Iggy is having problems dealing with being leader than maybe he should think about resigning. You have a parade of leaders resigning everytime they have a brainfart. Harper, Layton and to a lessor extent, Duceppe (remember that hairnet), have all had to overcome bad decisions, bad optics and bad press as well as an unruly caucus. He will have his eDay and the chips will fall where they may. Ignatieff was an untested candidate MP parachuted into a safe riding. Then an untested leader. There is a reason why he couldn't defeat the weakling Dion in the first leadership race. It was those doubts that Liberal Insiders ignored when the LPC appointed a new leader. On the job training for an unseasoned opposition leader is certain to lead to some flops, flips, flops, flips, no flopflips, no flipflops. It was all well and good until he read his own press clippings. Ignatieff also believed that Jack Layton would drop the poker if given access to the fire. Layton hasn't dropped it, but now he is sticking hotdogs and marshmellows on the end and handing some over to the Prime Minister. Ignatieff needs his poker back. Ignatieff believed he could play poker and now the LPC are at 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 The party is dead. With all the support the Liberals are bleeding to the NDP, maybe Ignatieff will be dethroned by Rae to stop the hemorrhage. Rae seems to straddle both parties. What have they got to lose with what would amount to a shot in the dark? The party often looks like a bunch of blind people anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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