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Householders and Ten Percenters


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Until you can prove he's not, your party's 10% is spamming

Debate is new to you then?

Try this on for size.

Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit

If that one is too hard, this one is much more concise.

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Feel free to ask for help.

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After seeing slightly different figures for the average amount spent on printing by Conservative and opposition MPs in a Le Devoir article, I double-checked my calculations. I first checked the amount for each MP against the 2008-2009 expense report and found no errors. I then checked that I had the correct party for each MP and found one error: I had Joe Comuzzi as a Liberal when he was in fact a Conservative. With that correction, the averages are:

$38,735.64 (All Conservative MPs)

$18,098.97 (All Liberal, Bloc, and NDP MPs)

$49,415.56 (108 Conservative MPs who served for the full fiscal year)

$22,752.35 (130 Liberal, Bloc, and NDP MPs who served for the full fiscal year)

These averages do not include the expenses of the 4 independent MPs. The averages in the Le Devoir article seem to have included 2 of the independent MPs (Bill Casey and Louise Thibault) in the Conservative average and the other 2 independent MPs (Andre Arthur and Blair Wilson) in the opposition average.

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I think the ten percenters should either be abolished altogether, or at least should have to be paid by party funds, not the MPs budgets.

I think, at the end of every year, the Auditor General should go through them, see which ones violated the rules, and then a bill sent to each MP with interest tacked on.

However, I do not believe the top ten percenter lists posted in this thread for a second. I've never even seen a CPC or NDP one, but I get several Liberal ones every week

I get them pretty regularly from my Conservative MP. What I find odd is how I keep getting letters from Jack Layton.

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I get them pretty regularly from my Conservative MP. What I find odd is how I keep getting letters from Jack Layton.

I have never received on from either the Liberals or the Conservatives. I get them fairly regulary from Layton and Chow.

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After seeing slightly different figures for the average amount spent on printing by Conservative and opposition MPs in a Le Devoir article, I double-checked my calculations. I first checked the amount for each MP against the 2008-2009 expense report and found no errors. I then checked that I had the correct party for each MP and found one error: I had Joe Comuzzi as a Liberal when he was in fact a Conservative. With that correction, the averages are:

$38,735.64 (All Conservative MPs)

$18,098.97 (All Liberal, Bloc, and NDP MPs)

$49,415.56 (108 Conservative MPs who served for the full fiscal year)

$22,752.35 (130 Liberal, Bloc, and NDP MPs who served for the full fiscal year)

These averages do not include the expenses of the 4 independent MPs. The averages in the Le Devoir article seem to have included 2 of the independent MPs (Bill Casey and Louise Thibault) in the Conservative average and the other 2 independent MPs (Andre Arthur and Blair Wilson) in the opposition average.

Those factual numbers right there sum things up.

Dancer denial in 3..2..1..

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Those factual numbers right there sum things up.

Dancer denial in 3..2..1..

You are as welcome as a fart in an phonebooth.

Care to find any posts in this thread by me about the 10%ers denying anything about the claims in the OP?

Your false claims aren't making you look any smarter...

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You are as welcome as a fart in an phonebooth.

Care to find any posts in this thread by me about the 10%ers denying anything about the claims in the OP?

Your false claims aren't making you look any smarter...

Interesting how you're quick to deny ever receiving one from the Conservatives in spite of the numbers which clearly show they spent more than twice as much as all the opposition parties combined.
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Interesting how you're quick to deny ever receiving one from the Conservatives in spite of the numbers which clearly show they spent more than twice as much as all the opposition parties combined.

Isn't that interesting. Not highly relevant to your BS, but interesting never the less. Might have something to do with where I live. You might want to ask Michael Hardner if he has ever received any conservative mailings, seeing we are in the same riding.

Are there any other straws from your nether regions you wish to grasp?

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If you get them from your ConservativeMP, it's not a 10%er. If you get one from mine, it is.

There seems to be some confusion here and in some media reports. Here's what is says in the expense reports:

(7) PRINTING

( a ) Householders – printed materials sent by Members (up to four householders per calendar year) to inform their constituents about parliamentary activities and issues;

( b ) Ten Percenters (additional householders) – printed or photocopied material reproduced in quantities not exceeding 10% of the total number of households in a Member’s constituency;

( c ) Ten Percenter Regrouping (additional householders) – some or all Members in a recognized party collectively submit, via their Whip’s office, an identical ten-percenter request; up to one regrouping per month is allowed, to a maximum of 10% of the total households represented by the Members submitting the request.

There doesn't appear to be any reference to whether the ten percenters are sent to an MPs own riding or another riding.

It would be interesting to see the bylaws of the Board of Internal Economy. Does anyone know if they are available online?

Edited by robert_viera
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If you get them from your ConservativeMP, it's not a 10%er. If you get one from mine, it is.

I live in a jewish-majority neighbourhood in Winnipeg that is currently held by the Liberals. Stephen Felcher, the PC from a nearby riding, has sent me at least 10 flyers in the past five years. The latest is just the worst in terms of exploiting identity politics.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/70396032.html

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I live in a jewish-majority neighbourhood in Winnipeg that is currently held by the Liberals. Stephen Felcher, the PC from a nearby riding, has sent me at least 10 flyers in the past five years. The latest is just the worst in terms of exploiting identity politics.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/70396032.html

First of all, there are no Jewish majority neighbourhoods in Winnipeg. Unless your neighborhood is about one block. It'd be more accurate to say that there are more Jewish persons living in your neighborhood than the overall proportion of Jews in the broader Canadian population. Perhaps having a few Jews around, in your mind, is an imagined Jewish majority.

As a Jewish person living in a neighborhood (a great neighborhood, I must say, mostly professionals and high-income earners, and extremely multi-cultural) with a significant Jewish population (let's say 10% of a neighborhood of ten thousand), I also receive cheesy Conservative mailings trying to appeal to my ethnicity/religion. Although much of what's being claimed is largely true - the Liberal party has only a mediocre record of supporting Israel, opposing global anti-semitism and standing up strongly for freedom on the international stage, I find this strategy somewhat lame. I know that Harper is a greater friend to Israel than previous governments, and I know that Harper is a more principled leader who stands up for freedom and democracy and human rights than previous leaders. I am concerned, however, that Jewish people are mistakenly viewed as one-issue voters - Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth. Harper would do well to utilize a more universal message that resonates with intelligent, hard-working Canadians of all religions and ethnicities and not attempt to do niche marketing. But then again, I'm not a professional politician. What do I know about building support? Perhaps Harper is utilizing tried and tested methods at building support. I'd rather Harper (or anyone!) formulate a clear and comprehensive agenda to reduce costs, slash through waste and stand up for our values unapologetically.

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I live in a jewish-majority neighbourhood in Winnipeg that is currently held by the Liberals. Stephen Felcher, the PC from a nearby riding, has sent me at least 10 flyers in the past five years. The latest is just the worst in terms of exploiting identity politics.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/70396032.html

Every once in a while cracks show through those continued fallacious Conservative attempts to project a more moderate image... when it happens, as in this case, we see the real Conservatives at work, purposely twisting facts while attempting to divide the Canadian people over Israel and anti-Semitism. Shameful.

THE REFORM-CONSERVATIVE RECORD ON ISRAEL AND JEWS

We could put together a "ten percenter" about a former Conservative leader appearing, long ago, onstage with a Saskatchewan Klansman - or, more recently, another Conservative leader's musings about the PLO. We could put one together about, even more recently, media reports detailing a Conservative ministerial aide threatening to pull the funding at a school for severely disabled Jewish children.

We could talk about these facts, pulled from one of my books and the public record:

• Holocaust denier Doug Collins, who called Schindler’s List “Swindler’s List” seeks a BC Reform Party nomination in 1988.

• In 1993, Ontario Reform candidate John Beck states that “predominantly Jewish people are running the country.”

• Reform MP Bob Ringma states in 1996 that “ethnics” need to be moved to “the back of the shop.”

• Werner Schmidt, a Reform MP, quotes Hitler in a householder – “what luck for leaders that men do not think.”

• Future Aryan Nations leader Terry Long, who would later call Jews “the spawn of Satan,” works in 1980 as an Edmonton-area Conservative Party director.

• In 1991, the Toronto Sun exposes the fact that Ku Klux Klan leader Wolgang Droege is a member of the Reform Party in Toronto, as are four other members of the neo-Nazi Heritage Front; two of the anti-Semites are on the executive of Beaches-Woodbine Reform Party executive.

But we don't.

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Perhaps people could scan or take a digital photo of ten-percenters they receive and then post them somewhere online so we could see what people are getting in different ridings.

Ten percenters I have received:

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/

20 from Patrick Brown, 1 from Ruby Dhalla, and 1 from Glen Pearson.

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Ten percenters I have received:

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/

20 from Patrick Brown, 1 from Ruby Dhalla, and 1 from Glen Pearson.

I've added a number of householders to the above link. Here's one with a large Conservative Party logo on it:

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/8563723/

... paid for by you, the taxpayer.

Edited by robert_viera
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I've added a number of householders to the above link. Here's one with a large Conservative Party logo on it:

http://www.zooomr.com/photos/robertviera/8563723/

... paid for by you, the taxpayer.

Is there anyplace you can go to find out how much a particular MP has billed taxpayers for these "printing" expenses? Ive seen the Top 10 lists, but is the expense for each MP listed publicly somewhere?

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I think, at the end of every year, the Auditor General should go through them, see which ones violated the rules, and then a bill sent to each MP with interest tacked on.

I get them pretty regularly from my Conservative MP. What I find odd is how I keep getting letters from Jack Layton.

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2171203

It is inspiring to see that at least one of our brave politicians, Helena Guergis, agrees with you. As we can plainly see, immediately prior to the last election and under mounting political pressure she came up with a fair minded approach to partisan mailings.

"Helena Guergis also says much of material that originates out of MP's offices — 10-percenters, constituency newsletters — should be paid for by local riding associations, not taxpayers."

Funny we haven't heard anything since the election - "...must have got lost, somewhere down the line". B)

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Is there anyplace you can go to find out how much a particular MP has billed taxpayers for these "printing" expenses? Ive seen the Top 10 lists, but is the expense for each MP listed publicly somewhere?

There is a link to a report containing all the office and House of Commons expenses for MPs in the first post in this thread. Here it is again:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/process/house/GeneraLInformation/MembersExpenses-2008-2009-e.pdf

The MPs are listed by name. If you'd like to see a list that shows MPs listed in order of how much they spent on printing, let me know and I'll try to post it here.

Edited by robert_viera
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There is a link to a report containing all the office and House of Commons expenses for MPs in the first post in this thread. Here it is again:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/process/house/GeneraLInformation/MembersExpenses-2008-2009-e.pdf

The MPs are listed by name. If you'd like to see a list that shows MPs listed in order of how much they spent on printing, let me know and I'll try to post it here.

Thank you very much I found the info I needed in the link, any chance you know where to find a similar breakdown on Mike Duffy's expenses?

Edited by DrGreenthumb
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http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2171203

It is inspiring to see that at least one of our brave politicians, Helena Guergis, agrees with you. As we can plainly see, immediately prior to the last election and under mounting political pressure she came up with a fair minded approach to partisan mailings.

"Helena Guergis also says much of material that originates out of MP's offices — 10-percenters, constituency newsletters — should be paid for by local riding associations, not taxpayers."

Funny we haven't heard anything since the election - "...must have got lost, somewhere down the line". B)

You mean the Helena Geurgis who racked up $86,808 in printing expenses? Yeah she sure seems really against the practice, pfft actions speak louder than words. I wonder if she will still support bill c-15 if it means mandaTORY prison time for her ex-CON MP husband Rahim Jaffer for driving drunk while speeding and possessing cocaine? He spoke about how against drugs he was too when insulting Jack Layton for talking about decriminalizing cannabis. I think Jaffer's actions speak louder than HIS words too.

The Conservatives are total hypocrites on EVERY issue. Remember how Harper said he would NEVER appoint senators? Stephen Harper has appointed MORE senators than any Prime Minister in Canada's history! The Cons are famous for saying one thing but doing the opposite.

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