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Long Gun Registry Not what it Seems


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Maybe the Tories should respect the Constitution. They might win a majority if they did that.

The Tories follow the constitution, but I would like you to direct me to the line in the consitution where it says that the Pm can't follow the wishes of the people that that senate seat is suppose to represent. It is Common courtous and respect for the consitutency.

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One again, why the personalizing? I don't believe I have attacked you.

I have asked why the handgun registry is useful if the Tories believe the registry in general cannot be relied on. I've said I believe the Tories will end that handgun registry if they have a majority using the argument that it is ineffective. I keep hearing that is impossible but have not heard a good reason why.

Personalizing? I don't believe I called you a gun-happy manic or anything else.

However, can you cite any source where a government official has said they want to end the handgun registry? When you start making stuff up it makes me think of silly things like 'soldiers in the streets - with guns'.

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It's pretty simple Dobbin. As long as people go through the proper process of getting a license, and having it renewed....I don't care if people have a rifle or shotgun.....they have a useful purpose and cannot easily be concealed.

A rifle is hard to conceal. A sawed off shotgun not too difficult.

I DO care if someone has a handgun and every single one should be registered.....and if they are not, the law is being broken.

But is it effective? The Tories say the registries are not effective and that the problem is with illegal handguns.

You are saying that the handgun registry is effective? Do you know for certain that it is?

It has always been difficult to get licensed for a handgun and it should continue to be that way. Every single handgun should be accounted for. That's why the handgun registry must and should continue. There is not that need with long guns. As to how effective the handgun registry is with regards to immediate access and value by the police - I can't speak to that. I still maintain that the most important piece of information is whether an individual has a license to own a gun.....that means proceed with utmost caution.

Think that has been my argument. It is the licence that should first be looked at and tracked at all times. I am not convinced on a central database but want further study to confirm that.

My belief is that the Tories don't believe in it either but are not interested in studying the matter. It is why I think the argument that the database is useless would come after winning a majority. You seem to think it is childish to think that is possible.

If I saw a logical assessment that the database was both useless and costly and there were other choices available, I'd support the change.

As I have said many times here, I did not support the registry. However, I wanted to hear a full assessment on it before acting in haste.

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However, can you cite any source where a government official has said they want to end the handgun registry?

I said Tories have argued about the effectiveness about the registry in general. I cited Van Loan just making that argument. It is why I believe the Tories given a majority could make the same argument on handguns. Do you think that is completely impossible and if not, why not?

Sometimes government make unpopular choices early in their mandate knowing that it probably won't figure as much later on. I think that this may be such a case.

I know the Liberals won't end the database nor any other party but I do believe the Tories given the history of their arguments on registry could do it if it came as part of a package of crime bills on illegal gun use.

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"My belief is that" the Tories

Here it is, nothing to back it up just a belief while you are entitled to it, don't try to pass it off as if it is a fact.

If you want to talk about how to make the streets safer and remove the illegal handguns from them, then by all means go ahead, your attacks on the Tories about your beliefs about them do nothing to further it though, so if you have ideas how to reduce the amount of illegal hand guns on the streets then lets hear them and debate them.

Edited by Alta4ever
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...

I have asked for a complete review of the gun registry. If the Tories believe the long gun part of the registry is useless, they surely think the same about the handgun registry. And if not, why not?

Who did you ask and in what capacity ?

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I said Tories have argued about the effectiveness about the registry in general.

And you have been told time and time again it, the arguement, was always based on the LONG GUN REGISTRY which has always been refer to by its opponents as "the" gun registry.

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The Tories follow the constitution, but I would like you to direct me to the line in the consitution where it says that the Pm can't follow the wishes of the people that that senate seat is suppose to represent. It is Common courtous and respect for the consitutency.

My view is that it bypasses the Constitution. It can't be forced on the provinces nor should it be forced on the federal government.

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And you have been told time and time again it, the arguement, was always based on the LONG GUN REGISTRY which has always been refer to by its opponents as "the" gun registry.

But why? If the argument is that the registry is useless for long guns, why is it useful for handguns? If it is unreliable, costly and generally ineffective for one, why not the other?

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I said Tories have argued about the effectiveness about the registry in general. I cited Van Loan just making that argument. It is why I believe the Tories given a majority could make the same argument on handguns. Do you think that is completely impossible and if not, why not?

Sometimes government make unpopular choices early in their mandate knowing that it probably won't figure as much later on. I think that this may be such a case.

I know the Liberals won't end the database nor any other party but I do believe the Tories given the history of their arguments on registry could do it if it came as part of a package of crime bills on illegal gun use.

Geez, we're back to the 'hidden agenda' again.

"unpopular choices early in their mandate" ? You do realize it's been several years...

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Who did you ask and in what capacity ?

Think I already said I asked people in this forum to assess or to push for an assessment of the effectiveness of the registry.

For myself, I am pushing to get the MPs on the committee to look at the effectiveness in general and called my local MP to ask the committee to call witnesses. I have asked in the capacity as a constituent and taxpayer.

Although opposed to the registry when it was started, I do want to hear if it is useful and effective now. If it is found that the registry is useless, end it. But I want to know if that applies to the registry entirely. If one part of it is useless, why not all of it?

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Geez, we're back to the 'hidden agenda' again.

"unpopular choices early in their mandate" ? You do realize it's been several years...

I don't believe the Tories have hidden their feeling towards the registry. It is why I don't think it is impossible that the whole thing could go but not in without a majority.

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I don't believe the Tories have hidden their feeling towards the registry. It is why I don't think it is impossible that the whole thing could go but not in without a majority.

Your right their feelings aren't hidden, and thats why its asinine that you think the whole think could go, the tories are not getting rid of the whole thing, just the long gun registry.

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I have said there is nothing secret about it. The Tories says the registry is useless. If it is, why keep it?

Obviously, it is not useless, someone want to make use of it, they want to use that money to another place, so that some other group of people can take it. That is because the money will not return to taxpayers, taxpayers pay more each year as the result of the "hard work" of the law makers.

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Your right their feelings aren't hidden, and thats why its asinine that you think the whole think could go, the tories are not getting rid of the whole thing, just the long gun registry.

I heard the same arguments made about why Harper would never call an election unless he lost as confidence vote too. You probably thought it was impossible when I said I believed he would do it back in 2006.

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I heard the same arguments made about why Harper would never call an election unless he lost as confidence vote too. You probably thought it was impossible when I said I believed he would do it back in 2006.

You also said the conservatives would win a majority in 2008.

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Think you forget what I said in full on that. I said that based on how poorly the Liberals were prepared, the Tories should win a massive majority.

I remeber quite well what you said, only half way through the campaign did you change your prediction and bring it in line with what everyone else was saying.

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I remeber quite well what you said, only half way through the campaign did you change your prediction and bring it in line with what everyone else was saying.

Suffice to say that you and others were dead wrong when you said Harper would not call an election.

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Suffice to say that you and others were dead wrong when you said Harper would not call an election.

Talk about an angry, frustrated, bitter Liberal flogging a dead horse.......I'm sorry (well, not really) that your party is in the dumper but surely it's time for you to move on.

Edited by Keepitsimple
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Talk about an angry, frustrated, bitter Liberal flogging a dead horse.......I'm sorry (well, not really) that your party is in the dumper but surely it's time for you to move on.

Seems to be a horse that it is still running. Harper doesn't believe in fixed elections. Why not admit the legislation is a peace of crap and stop personalizing.

Edited by jdobbin
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