Jump to content

Ottawa says provinces to get less flu vaccine than promised


jdobbin

Recommended Posts

Ottawa should have gone for the best provider..but you know politics - It's about assisting those that put you there.

And who is to blame for the present choice?

The shortage still comes back to government and the decisions it takes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

No it's not - The company knew they could not cut it and Ottawa never gave the thought of coming up short much thought. There is no passing the buck here. Find out who is the best and most massive producer in the planet of vacine and I bet it is NOT the company in question - Ottawa should have gone for the best provider..but you know politics - It's about assisting those that put you there.

Actually, there are only a tiny handful of companies that actually produce influenza vaccines. (In fact, a few years ago, there were only 2.) So, its not like the government had a large number of options to choose from. The company they did select was, I believe, one of the bigger suppliers (although I'd have to check to make sure).

There have been a couple of problems that have been affecting the global supply that have been outside the control of any government:

- The production yield from the eggs for the H1N1 virus has been lower than expected. (This is biology, not something anyone can be 'blamed' for)

- the companies themselves didn't act immediately to inform their customers about potential delays. (They were overly optimistic when confronted with various problems)

- Companies also had seasonal flu vaccines to produce, which meant their resources had to be divided

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-ne...elay-us-vaccine

One of the biggest problems has involved making the antigen, or active ingredient, used in the H1N1 vaccine. The process has been slower than usually seen with seasonal vaccines. Viruses for both vaccines are grown in chicken eggs before going through a purification process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because, of course, Harper actually has all that much control over supply.

I don't like Harper at all, but blaming him for *temporary* shortfalls in vaccine is utterly moronic.

Absolutely agree, it's pretty much blind ideology to do that.

The problem is on the provincial side for poor planning, but even they didn't anticipate a surge after the news about the death of a 13 year old a couple of days ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely agree, it's pretty much blind ideology to do that.

The change in the vaccine was ordered by the government. Ergo, they did have control over the supply.

Blaming the company for the delay passes the buck for the fact that the Feds promised a guaranteed supply but then changed course to re-jig the vaccine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been a couple of problems that have been affecting the global supply that have been outside the control of any government:

However, none of these are the reasons for the trouble in Canada. In Canada it came from a federal order to re-jig the vaccine mid-way through the process thereby causing the delay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's enough blame to go around. First , like to today in the Commons, Baird, kept getting up and saying, its SAFE and its the largest immunization ever in Canada and just be patient everyone will get a shot that wants one. Well, now that may not be true and if someone dies from the vaccine, sue the Tories and Baird for saying its safe. The provinces just downloaded it on to the health centres and they are doing the best they can BUT they should have gone into the schools to do the kids and and left the first day for the chronic ill and pregnant women. People are in such a panic that people from the cities are going into the Urban's so they don't have to wait up 6 hours, this is taking away from the people living in those communities! The latest word is they maybe running out of vaccine and there will be more panic. This may be cause by the fact of stopping the production of the swine vaccine, to make the vaccine for pregnant women. The government kept saying that 50 mil would be produce and now some officials are saying all won't get. There nothing but mass confusion and the Fed Health Minister better get facts straight out and her own members aren't helping!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the CBC

On Thursday, federal and provincial health officials said fewer doses of H1N1 vaccine are expected next week because the vaccine manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline, has a single production line. The company had to stop producing adjuvanted vaccines to make the unadjuvanted type.

Adjuvants are used to boost immune response so that less of the active ingredient can be used, thus stretching supplies.

Nevertheless, Canada still has more H1N1 vaccine doses per capita than any other country, Aglukkaq told reporters.

and, Canada has bought 50 million flu shots from GSK

This is the largest mass vaccination in Canada's history and considering the hyper panic, we aren't doing too badly. Not much you can pin on the feds, try as you might. :)-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the largest mass vaccination in Canada's history and considering the hyper panic, we aren't doing too badly. Not much you can pin on the feds, try as you might. :)-

I don't see a panic. I see people concerned and frustrated that the promised supply is dropping because the Feds ordered a change during production.

Provinces are running out this weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, none of these are the reasons for the trouble in Canada. In Canada it came from a federal order to re-jig the vaccine mid-way through the process thereby causing the delay.

Given the fact that its a global problem with production, we would have likely had delays anyways, regardless of whether they changed the vaccine components. (i.e. the change in components may have had an effect, but it was likely only one of several problems.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see a panic. I see people concerned and frustrated that the promised supply is dropping because the Feds ordered a change during production.

Provinces are running out this weekend.

the planning for just this sort of pandemic goes back years, this particular flu with it's effect on pregnant women was known for awhile...if we need to place blame we need to know who did the planning and who made the final decisions, were the plans correct? were the plans changed by government?...the company making the vaccine is not responsible they only do what is asked of them...not ensuring that those who should have priority was a really dumb mistake that should have been sorted long ago, an error like this can kill...

Edited by wyly
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given the fact that its a global problem with production, we would have likely had delays anyways, regardless of whether they changed the vaccine components. (i.e. the change in components may have had an effect, but it was likely only one of several problems.)

we were told that Canada had sufficient domestic production to ensure that every Canadian could be vaccinated and then have enough to help out other countries that did not... so how does it now become a global problem...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given the fact that its a global problem with production, we would have likely had delays anyways, regardless of whether they changed the vaccine components. (i.e. the change in components may have had an effect, but it was likely only one of several problems.)

Until the change in the vaccine, Canada did not have shortages. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Until the change in the vaccine, Canada did not have shortages. Period.

yup, there will be a political price to pay for any errors federally and provincially....in Alberta having only 4 vaccination sites in a Calgary and 5 in Edmonton both with a population of about 1 million was incredibly stupid, Winnipeg a much smaller center had 12...and why weren't children and groups most at risk allowed to go first?...I'm not a Epidemiologist and even I figured that out, that's what I expected would happen...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the National, it was GSK that told the government there would be a supply problem. They couldn't deliver, just as I thought.

Actually, that is not what was said. They said that the government ordered a change in the vaccine mid-stream and that has caused the delay. Go back and watch again because this is what the story is:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...4cpiw4AitEF9EoQ

The slowdown is due to the fact that Canada asked GSK to make special batches of the vaccine for pregnant women and that required switching over the production line, and then switching back.

So are you still blaming the company for following the government's instructions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, that is not what was said. They said that the government ordered a change in the vaccine mid-stream and that has caused the delay. Go back and watch again because this is what the story is:

So are you still blaming the company for following the government's instructions?

The next logical question is did the company advise the government that in order to produce the non-adjuvant vaccine, the production of the regular vaccine would be interrupted for a significant length of time?

Seems to me there is a lot of guessing going on here about what actually transpired in the negotiations between the supplier and the government. Of course, that doesn't deter those who want to score political points. They have already blamed the government for past and future H1N1 deaths. Perhaps the Liberals are planning to call for a public inquiry to review the matter. To his credit, Layton didn't politicize the recent deaths of the two youngsters. He said Canadians have to pull together to meet this challenge. Too bad Liberals are only interested in laying blame and further inflaming a worried public.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The next logical question is did the company advise the government that in order to produce the non-adjuvant vaccine, the production of the regular vaccine would be interrupted for a significant length of time?

I suppose if you want to blame the company for this that would be the route to go.

To his credit, Layton didn't politicize the recent deaths of the two youngsters. He said Canadians have to pull together to meet this challenge. Too bad Liberals are only interested in laying blame and further inflaming a worried public.

Too bad the Tories heckled and refused to answer questions over the last weeks as noted on both CTV and CBC about the vaccine. Looks like they wanted to politicize this with juvenile activities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose if you want to blame the company for this that would be the route to go.

Not that it will make a difference to your partisan view on this but...

Canada's vaccine manufacturer did not inform federal health officials until Thursday that the number of H1N1 doses available to Canadians next week would shrink by much more than half – prompting provinces to suspend the rollout of the vaccine to the general public for at least a couple of weeks.

GlaxoSmithKline is forecast to ship 436,000 doses to provinces and territories, far less than the roughly two million anticipated, because it had to interrupt production at its Ste-Foy, Que., plant to make a version of the vaccine for pregnant women.

The last-minute admission of a shortfall is the latest and largest blow in a week marked by anxiety, confusion and mounting frustration. Problems with vaccine supply and underestimation in pandemic planning now threaten to undermine Canada's largest-ever inoculation campaign.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1346246/

You need to remember that the feds are one of three players in pandemic planning. Provinces and municipalities committed some errors in rolling out the vaccines. You also need to take into account that the public was spooked by the death of two youngsters which led to a run on the clinics by high risk groups and healthy Canadians. But I know you're much more attuned to Bob Rae's message that Conservatives are killing and will be killing citizens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that it will make a difference to your partisan view on this but...

I have read this and the order still came from the Feds to interrupt production to start production elsewhere. The government had been asked about possible delays but all they do is heckle and make sexist comments.

You need to remember that the feds are one of three players in pandemic planning. Provinces and municipalities committed some errors in rolling out the vaccines. You also need to take into account that the public was spooked by the death of two youngsters which led to a run on the clinics by high risk groups and healthy Canadians. But I know you're much more attuned to Bob Rae's message that Conservatives are killing and will be killing citizens.

The supply of the vaccine is not controlled by the provinces. It is the Feds that ordered it and changed production midway through. I realize that the talking points are to blame the manufacturer and refuse to answer questions in Parliament about using sexist comments but it is getting a little ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's certainly what was said on The National. You can go watch it if you'd like.

I did. And that is why I say you wrong and I have shown you the CP story on that which you also seem to ignore. It was also talked about on Politics today about how the order came from the Feds to change production midstream.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/10/30/h1n1-canada.html

On Thursday, federal and provincial health officials said fewer doses of H1N1 vaccine are expected next week because the vaccine manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline, has a single production line. The company had to stop producing adjuvanted vaccines to make the non-adjuvant type for pregnant women.

You blame the manufacturer even though they were ordered by the government to change production.

Edited by jdobbin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't real blame anyone, but I do see who it is that can't deliver. You seem to be the one who wants to find blame.

Try watching the National from 3:00 to 3:45 minutes. You'll see that A) GSK informed the government, and B ) the change in production isn't the only cause of delay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't real blame anyone, but I do see who it is that can't deliver. You seem to be the one who wants to find blame.

But who ordered the production line stopped to restart on the re-jigged vaccine? The government did.

Try watching the National from 3:00 to 3:45 minutes. You'll see that A) GSK informed the government, and B ) the change in production isn't the only cause of delay.

I have watched it three times and you seem to think it means something different.

According to the CBC website, it is the main reason for the delay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have watched it three times and you seem to think it means something different.

No, you seem to think it means something different. It very clearly says that there were other causes and it very clearly says that it's GSK that informed the government of the causes. Even if the government made the change, they aren't the producer. They're the consumer, and their supplier obviously didn't plan well enough for possible changes and unexpected situations.

Really, there's probably nowhere to lay blame here. We're doing a pretty good job of getting the vaccine out, there's simply been a hiccup that is causing a delay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you seem to think it means something different. It very clearly says that there were other causes and it very clearly says that it's GSK that informed the government of the causes. Even if the government made the change, they aren't the producer. They're the consumer, and their supplier obviously didn't plan well enough for possible changes and unexpected situations.

This is where the blame seems to be directed at the manufacturer. It seems to be the Tory talking point.

I do take it you read the CP report tonight on the delay, right? Or are they confused?

Really, there's probably nowhere to lay blame here. We're doing a pretty good job of getting the vaccine out, there's simply been a hiccup that is causing a delay.

It is literally chaos in terms of delivery. The production line was late to start compared to other countries and mid-stream the government ordered a change to the vaccine. Shutting down a production line causes delays and there were questions about the changes in Parliament for some time and they just end up getting shouted down.

Edited by jdobbin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,418
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    stevenwilson
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • ironstone went up a rank
      Grand Master
    • reason10 went up a rank
      Veteran
    • Manymoons11 earned a badge
      First Post
    • LTJ earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • akayy earned a badge
      One Month Later
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...