H1N1 "Pandemic"

[segnosaur]

How many on here plan to take the flu shot?....i am still undecided,

some cheerleader in the U.S. got all messed up after taking a flu shot!

I believe you're referring to the case of Desiree Jennings, a cheerleader who came down with a disease called Dystonia (a disease that affects motor skills, preventing normal walking/talking) after taking the flu shot.

However, I think we can probably rule out the vaccine as the cause of her Dystonia. Apparently, she became ill with some sort of flu-like illness 10 days after the vaccination, and then came down with Dystonia after that. (When flu does cause side-effects, they tend to occur right after the injection, not more than a week after.)

Furthermore, if I remember correctly, this wasn't the first time she had ever had the flu shot.

What probably happened is that she happened to catch a form of the flu that wasn't covered by the vaccine. (Or, it could have been some other disease entirely that just appeared like the flu.) It was this actual sickness (which, through unfortunate luck, happened so soon after the vaccination) that triggered her dystonia.

Even if the vaccine was the cause of the problem, consider this: this is the only case ever found, making it not just one in a million, but one in millions upon millions.

[wyly]

I remember them as well. Seemed like a couple of public health nurses would come in and do the whole school in a morning or afternoon. Maybe too much legal butt covering required to do something like that now.

and schools likely being the best places to spread disease it would make sense to start any vaccination program there...

[GostHacked]

If you want proper information on the H1N1 virus. Talk to your doctor. After talking to mine, I have a better understanding about the virus, and it's implications. I also have a better understanding about the vaccine and how it works. The way the news media is portraying this virus is over-sensenalisation and is not helping with getting the facts out about this virus. But it seems to sell papers and airtime.

IN the end ... please go see/talk to your doctor and the get facts.

[wulf42]

I believe you're referring to the case of Desiree Jennings, a cheerleader who came down with a disease called Dystonia (a disease that affects motor skills, preventing normal walking/talking) after taking the flu shot.

However, I think we can probably rule out the vaccine as the cause of her Dystonia. Apparently, she became ill with some sort of flu-like illness 10 days after the vaccination, and then came down with Dystonia after that. (When flu does cause side-effects, they tend to occur right after the injection, not more than a week after.)

Furthermore, if I remember correctly, this wasn't the first time she had ever had the flu shot.

What probably happened is that she happened to catch a form of the flu that wasn't covered by the vaccine. (Or, it could have been some other disease entirely that just appeared like the flu.) It was this actual sickness (which, through unfortunate luck, happened so soon after the vaccination) that triggered her dystonia.

Even if the vaccine was the cause of the problem, consider this: this is the only case ever found, making it not just one in a million, but one in millions upon millions.

True enough.....the media iis bound to jump on anything right now, my spouse is a nurse

so she is getting the flu shot but i think i will hold out for a little while just to be safe..lol

[Argus]

I don't know when it's coming but the seasonal flu has already ravaged my office. I've seen on the news that they aren't quite sure when the vaccine is going to be readily available, which is scary.

The things it that they don't know if it's the seasonal flu or the H1N1. Unless, of course, symptoms are so severe that you're admitted to hospital. Then they're pretty sure it's H1N1. I had flu all weekend. Which was it? Dunno.

The difference between this and seasonal flu is that unless you were frail, the seasonal flu wasn't much of a danger, just an uncomfortable annoyance. That left only the elderly and sick worrying about it. With this thing, it doesn't matter how young or healthy you are, you could geti it - not even knowing youj've got it - and be dead in a day or two. And it seems to target the young more than anyone else. That scares the bejesus out of every parent I know.

[Shwa]

Anything that can have an effect on a 13 year healthy hockey playing kid is worth taking notice about:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...-hockey113.html

My 16 year old lacrosse playing athlete kid is very. very sick this week - with some sort of flu - and it is very rare that any flu has this effect on him. And now I have it. But believe me I am keeping a closer eye on him than I am myself.

If you are in a risk category, quit your whining and get the damned shot for H1N1. If not for yourself, then for everyone else around you that might catch it from you if you get it.

[Molly]

My children are young adults, with babies of their own.

All (foolishly, IMO) are more suspicious of the vaccine than they are concerned about the disease. If they were 10 years younger, I could march them in to get it done whether they were willing or not. If they were 10 years older, they'd have some exposure to and grasp of just how much damage a usually fairly benign disease can do.

They are in the highest risk group by way of hubris. They haven't fully realized, and won't yet acknowledge, that they aren't invincible.

[Keepitsimple]

Finally, someone is putting things in perspective.

Dr. Gerald Evans, president of the Association of Medical Microbiology and Infectious Disease Canada, said it's important to put the deaths of the two young people into context, because teens die during regular flu season as well.

"It gets over-amplified because there is so much in the press right now about pandemic flu," he said.

Link: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/swi...html?id=2152936

[jdobbin]

Finally, someone is putting things in perspective.

So given what you have heard, you believe the cons outweigh the pros in getting vaccinated?

[GostHacked]

So given what you have heard, you believe the cons outweigh the pros in getting vaccinated?

Don't listen to the freakin media overhyping it. Talk to your doctor. I can't stress this enough. Then make up your mind.

[Keepitsimple]

So given what you have heard, you believe the cons outweigh the pros in getting vaccinated?

I personally think it's moot. If you would normally get a flu shot - go ahead and get an H1N1 shot. If anything, it appears that H1N1 is milder than regular seasonal strains. People who have never had a flu shot have taken the same risk every year of being one of the average 4000 Canadians who die from flu and flu complications. Here's an article from Thomas Walkom in the Star this morning:

But what we also know is that, so far, this flu strain has been no more serious than any other.

To put it another way: Before the H1N1 scare, the death from flu of a 13-year-old boy wouldn't have led newscasts across the nation.

Consider the facts.

According to the World Health Organization, fewer than 5,000 people have died around the globe from this variant of swine flu. In any normal year, influenza causes between 250,000 and 500,000 deaths worldwide.

In the Southern Hemisphere, the winter flu season is now over. In spite of dire predictions, only 185 people died from swine flu in Australia – considerably fewer than the roughly 3,000 who succumb to seasonal influenza in that country each year.

And no, it wasn't because the population was immunized. Australia's vaccination campaign against swine flu took off last month.

Last week, U.S. President Barack Obama declared swine flu a national emergency after about 1,000 Americans died. Yet according to the Centers for Disease Control, roughly 50,000 Americans die every year from seasonal flu – without any politician paying much attention.

What's more unnerving, however, is the level of hype surrounding this flu virus, hype that at times comes dangerously close to hysteria.

The public health dictum suggesting that people wash their hands to prevent the virus' spread has transformed itself, in some areas (like the Catholic Archdiocese of Ottawa) into a near-ban on shaking hands.

Demand for hand sanitizers has exploded, as individuals and institutions search for ways to make physical contact safe.

Yet experts are divided over handwashing. A 2007 study done for the Public Health Agency of Canada and chaired by Toronto microbiologist Donald Low concluded that the practice does little to prevent flu transmission, largely because this particular virus is airborne.

Polls show that the public is taking a casual attitude toward swine flu. This alarms those beating the H1N1 drum. But given the actual evidence, maybe the public is onto something.

Link: http://www.healthzone.ca/health/newsfeatur...d-to-panic?bn=1

[jdobbin]

Don't listen to the freakin media overhyping it. Talk to your doctor. I can't stress this enough. Then make up your mind.

I have. Just curious about some here who don't trust scientists and doctors.

How do they make their decision?

[Sir Bandelot]

Based on real scientific evidence, there is nothing more here to worry about than any typical flu. Yet the goverments are putting some kind of psychological pressure on the public, telling us to be fearful of this disease, without any apparent scientific basis. An excessive and inappropriate response, once again... along the same lines as SARS and West Nile viruses.

To me this demonstrates how easily the poorly-informed masses respond to inflammatory media hype. It seems to work very well.

[jdobbin]

Based on real scientific evidence,

I see a lot of people who don't trust any science or medicine. That seems to be how some reach a decision.

[wyly]

Based on real scientific evidence, there is nothing more here to worry about than any typical flu. Yet the goverments are putting some kind of psychological pressure on the public, telling us to be fearful of this disease, without any apparent scientific basis. An excessive and inappropriate response, once again... along the same lines as SARS and West Nile viruses.

based on scientific evidence you have no idea what your talking about...you're telling us there is no scientific basis to be afraid of a disease that has killed healthy people...you're encouraging people to ignore vaccinations on the premise that you know more than the USA's CDC, ignore vaccinations that will prevent the spread of a disease that could kill my family members?...yes people are right to fear a disease that can kill their children and you are wrong to downplay the danger...

To me this demonstrates how easily the poorly-informed masses respond to inflammatory media hype. It seems to work very well.

To me this demonstrates is how poorly you understand the spread of disease and the social and economic damage it causes...

[eyeball]

The things contributing to my reluctance to getting a shot are as follows;

1. My inability to trust the government probably stands above all else.

2. My sense that the fear of HINI is overblown simply because society now exists in a perpetually fearful state.

3. My faith in science has been eroded the last number of years. I guess due to the lack of action on other potential threats I have a greater appreciation for arguments that a herd mentality can settle around a so-called scientific consensus that can border on a cult-like religous certainty and fervour.

Mostly though its the matter of trust or complete lack thereof in the government.

I notice now that the psychological pressure to get a shot is morphing into moral pressure with questions like 'what if you infect a child who dies' being asked of individuals. Its probably only a matter of time before these vaccinations are mandatory.

[Shady]

based on scientific evidence you have no idea what your talking about

Either do you. I'm thinking that you just really like to fearmonger.

According to the World Health Organization, fewer than 5,000 people have died around the globe from this variant of swine flu. In any normal year, influenza causes between 250,000 and 500,000 deaths worldwide.

In the Southern Hemisphere, the winter flu season is now over. In spite of dire predictions, only 185 people died from swine flu in Australia – considerably fewer than the roughly 3,000 who succumb to seasonal influenza in that country each year.

Last week, U.S. President Barack Obama declared swine flu a national emergency after about 1,000 Americans died. Yet according to the Centers for Disease Control, roughly 50,000 Americans die every year from seasonal flu – without any politician paying much attention.

The Star

Consider H1N1 as this years bird flu, or Y2K. More people will die of hype, than of the actual disease.

[wyly]

Either do you. I'm thinking that you just really like to fearmonger.

me minding my own business and not pretending to know more than health officials and getting a flu shot will not hurt anyone....know it all's with no medical knowledge and only an ability to "cut n' paste" giving out medical information will be responsible for killing people...and if they spread the flu because they were to stupid not to get a vaccine they will also be responsible for infecting anyone who dies...

if you don't to take a flu shot that's your business, but if going to spread medical info with zero knowledge...shut up!

[eyeball]

if you don't to take a flu shot that's your business, but if going to spread medical info with zero knowledge...shut up!

I'm just curious, what's your position on global warming?

[wyly]

The things contributing to my reluctance to getting a shot are as follows;

1. My inability to trust the government probably stands above all else.

what does the government have to do with medical research? that's irrational..

2. My sense that the fear of HINI is overblown simply because society now exists in a perpetually fearful state.

people are getting sick and people are dying, do you think that's a mass hallucination?

3. My faith in science has been eroded the last number of years. I guess due to the lack of action on other potential threats I have a greater appreciation for arguments that a herd mentality can settle around a so-called scientific consensus that can border on a cult-like religous certainty and fervour.

so what your saying is your stubborn and you'll take no preventative action because of previous events...this is like the boy who cried wolf...eventually the wolf is for real...being cautious with disease prevention is a no lose scenario, ignoring preventable dangers is foolhardy and irresponsible

Mostly though its the matter of trust or complete lack thereof in the government.

do you think the government has developed a mind control drug and is putting it in the vaccine?

I notice now that the psychological pressure to get a shot is morphing into moral pressure with questions like 'what if you infect a child who dies' being asked of individuals. Its probably only a matter of time before these vaccinations are mandatory.

as I posted earlier in this thread when I was a kid a schoolmate on my street came down with polio, was the government wrong to quarantine his home and prevent it's spread? mandatory vaccination was a normal procedure when I was a kid and it halted the spread of many diseases and eliminated small pox, where is the downside to that?

[Shwa]

"Consider H1N1 as this years bird flu, or Y2K. More people will die of hype, than of the actual disease."

Bravo! Nice use of numbers and statistics. Now tell me:

Of the 50,000 Americans that die each year from the season flu, how many of them were healthy and lived without other vulnerabilities like compromised immune systems, underlying heart or lung conditions, etc.? How many of them were sick with something else that contributed to their demise? For that matter, how many of the 185 that died in Australia had underlying conditions that weakened them against H1N1? And how many of them were healthy? Of that small number of 185 Ozzies, how many did not die because they had their shot or they practiced decent hygiene?

I wonder how many of the "only" 185 people in Oz would have done something different to preserve the life of their loved one? Do you have the cold comfort statistics for that?

The problem here is that you quote numbers without qualifying them thus forcing me to quote Mark Twain: ""There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." So basically, if you are simply throwing out unqualified statistics without breaking them down into something meaningful, that isn't "science" it's bullscat.

H1N1 knocks down healthy people and in some cases, takes them out. And it is preventable. That is the only information people need to know to make their decision.

[Shady]

H1N1 knocks down healthy people and in some cases, takes them out.

And so does the regular flu.

[bush_cheney2004]

....H1N1 knocks down healthy people and in some cases, takes them out. And it is preventable. That is the only information people need to know to make their decision.

But you are pepetuating the same sin by claiming it is "preventable", as this is not 100% true. While I certainly appreciate the gushing American references, H1N1 is a global issue with global challenges (and lies) for those promising salvation via vaccination and fastidious hand washing.

[Dave_ON]

me minding my own business and not pretending to know more than health officials and getting a flu shot will not hurt anyone....know it all's with no medical knowledge and only an ability to "cut n' paste" giving out medical information will be responsible for killing people...and if they spread the flu because they were to stupid not to get a vaccine they will also be responsible for infecting anyone who dies...

if you don't to take a flu shot that's your business, but if going to spread medical info with zero knowledge...shut up!

Or perhaps the flu vaccination will cause the swine flu to mutate and produce and even more severe strain. We can't compare the flu virus to the likes of small pox or polio; these diseases aren't nearly as adaptive as is the flu virus. If the flu were so easily defeated it would have been eradicated years ago.

We are seeing instances of drug resistant strains of any number of diseases; this has been a result of over use of drugs and vaccines to treat various illnesses. That's not to say these aren't important, but please get off your high horse for one moment and think about the other side of the equation.

This is indeed largely hype, the likes of which also surrounded bird flu, SARS etc. Statistics heretofore have shown that this particular strain is no more virulent or deadly than other flu's. If you choose to get a shot good for you, if that helps you sleep at night wonderful. We will never be able to completely eradicate all disease, as we adapt so to do viruses and other bacteria. Nature is a harsh mistress, and despite our own self importance we’re no different or more special than any other animal on the planet.

[eyeball]

what does the government have to do with medical research? that's irrational..

I imagine the government does fund much of it but what seems irrational is the governments reaction to this threat compared to the reaction it reserves for other vastly more dangerous threats. Its all out pf proportion, why? A 100 times more people will die from cigarettes this year, so what?

people are getting sick and people are dying, do you think that's a mass hallucination?

Do you think the number of people dying from smoking is a hallucination? What am I supposed to do with the knowledge that vast numbers of deaths happen every year from seasonal flu with nary a national emergency being declared? Every year is a pandemic isn't? Is total mindless panic going to be the norm from now on?

so what your saying is your stubborn and you'll take no preventative action because of previous events...this is like the boy who cried wolf...eventually the wolf is for real...being cautious with disease prevention is a no lose scenario, ignoring preventable dangers is foolhardy and irresponsible

So is blowing them out of proportion. How many people are going to get infected while waiting in long lines with hundreds of other people? Speaking of wolves, I can only imagine the stampede that might happen if someone started sneezing in such a crowd.

do you think the government has developed a mind control drug and is putting it in the vaccine?

Its not the drugs, its the fear they've been injecting into the public's consciousness. I guess my anti-bodies to fear are too strong to allow an infection.

as I posted earlier in this thread when I was a kid a schoolmate on my street came down with polio, was the government wrong to quarantine his home and prevent it's spread? mandatory vaccination was a normal procedure when I was a kid and it halted the spread of many diseases and eliminated small pox, where is the downside to that?

Small-pox is not the flu just like Osama Bin Laden is not Hitler. Where is the upside in comparing a mountain to a molehill to a panicky easily frightened society? I suspect a few drug makers are probably getting rich.