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...and suffer the stings of a wyly/waldo rubbin!

Uhm...BC, unless this is your kind of lifestyle you may want to consider leaving. I've said I'm okay with the whole "civil union" thing, but three is pushing it.

P.s. - Waldo, if it stings....see a doc. They have creams and such now.

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:lol: (and an extra one for Argus ..... :lol: )

ya wyly, I should have known - I had a previous long-running 'encounter' with this wannabe over an IT related topic... same pattern to the point where he finally realizes his folly is laid bare and reverts to shuckin-n-jivin deflections rather than just slinking away quietly.

and, of course, in his latest save-face attempt, he blindly drops another link without comment... given his hesitancy in putting himself out there with an actual statement that can be referenced. Given that blind link, we should ask BC if the science is "settled" on CO2? Does "he" think scientists view the science as "settled"?

here's an answer to BC's dropped link - a video from last weeks AGU meetings... rather long, but well worth it for anyone truly interested in how real scientists position and work through the science... of course, nothing is "settled"; however, skeptics are always welcome... and encouraged (of course)... to keep bringing forward new challenges to the prevailing view that CO2 is the cause. The video touches upon some of that skeptic challenge.

(the presenter, Richard Alley, is a highly recognized and cited geologist... he has a slight "Professor Irwin Corey" type style... so bear with that)

..... to all the wyly/waldo fans... see ya... after the Christmas break! :lol:

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This thread was fun to read for a while, but now I think it's time for me to follow other posters who have come to the conclusion that it has lost any point it may have had.

A few points before I go:

It amazes me how this point-counter point conversation has really been nothing more than "who can Google faster". One side presents "evidence" that is in question worldwide as to it's authenticity since the whole ClimateGate bullshit. Junk science. The other side runs back and forth contesting the junk science as well as possible considering it is thrown with such speed that it makes you feel as though you're playing singles tennis against 20 opponents.

The "CO2 Bad" crowd maintains their rabid...and I do mean RABID...defence of a bunch of "scientists" that have been caught with their hands in the "I want another grant" cookie jar. Then they turn around and attack anyone taking an opposing view as supporters/shills for energy companies. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

No one seems to want to broach the truism that is - who the hell cares if the planet warms a couple of degrees? "Oh! But millions will be displaced because they live near sea level!!!" So? These are the same people that keep getting wiped out by tsunamis and hurricanes each year BECAUSE THEY LIVE NEAR SEA LEVEL. "Oh! But millions will starve in third world nations because it will be too hot for crops to grow!!!" So? They were singing "Feed the World" over 25 years ago BECAUSE MILLIONS STARVE IN THIRD WORLD NATIONS BECAUSE IT IS TOO HOT FOR CROPS TO GROW. Not my problem and not your problem.

"What will we do will the displaced millions?" Who cares. Again, not my problem. There are lots of bad things that happen every year on this planet. We help those we can, and we have telethons that nobody watches for those we can't. We send billions in cash (and prizes!) to alleviate our "guilt" and to get those infernal images off our televisions for another 6-12 months. People starve in this country and yet we send much needed cash to a bunch of third world cesspools. But it's okay; we feel better for a while.

"CO2 emissions from the oilsands will kill the planet!" And???? Alberta has a ton of oil, as does Saskatchewan. Guess what? We're going to continue producing "the black plague" from it for many, many years to come. Why? Because someone needs to supply what you need for your VW microbus to drive to all of those protests. And to supply base stock to make that computer you're typing on. And to make that "environmentally friendly, eco-safe" refillable water bottle you're always lugging around. Do you feel globally guilty? Don't. We'll take the blame on the world stage and it won't interrupt our sleep at night.

Globally, one fact has always been true and always will be. Money rules the world. We have it, poor countries don't (hence the word "poor".) That means that we can get away with pretty much anything we want and don't have to answer for it. I, for one, like it that way. So that leaves two items to contend with: Blame and guilt. We'll take the blame, and you ClimateGate guys take the guilt part. That way we're all happy.

I have some shopping left to do, and it's -25C right now so I'm going to go outside and let one of my V8 domestic trucks idle for probably 45 minutes (maybe I'll start both for fun - company gas you know). When they're warm, I will drive, in 4 wheel drive, to a bunch of stores across my little town and spend way too much buying stuff I know people don't really need. But it'll make me and them happy, so I'm going to do it. Then tonight, I will drink beer and my family and I will play "Do They Know It's Christmas" from youtube and I'll remind my 11 and 12 year olds that there are people in poor countries that don't have enough to eat this Christmas. We'll all feel bad, and then I'll have another beer.

Merry Christmas to all of you. Especially you, ClimateGate Twins.

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....and, of course, in his latest save-face attempt, he blindly drops another link without comment... given his hesitancy in putting himself out there with an actual statement that can be referenced. Given that blind link, we should ask BC if the science is "settled" on CO2? Does "he" think scientists view the science as "settled"?

It can't be settled, lest whack-a-mole junkies like you get cornered by your own magic tricks, or at least the tricks of those that you worship via Google.. We know from many "blind" links that the earth is not a closed system, has never been at "equilibrium" wrt GHGs, is subject to many known (and unknown) forces, and has a very long time horizon. It also does not have to lobby for research grants.

What "he" thinks is that the earth will warm (and cool) just as it always has, regardless of "anthropogenic" campfires to cook a rabbit to 600Mw fossil fueled power plants for my 60" plasma TV. That's why my family cleverly keeps both a winter and summer wardrobe.

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This thread was fun to read for a while, but now I think it's time for me to follow other posters who have come to the conclusion that it has lost any point it may have had.

A few points before I go:

It amazes me how this point-counter point conversation has really been nothing more than "who can Google faster". One side presents "evidence" that is in question worldwide as to it's authenticity since the whole ClimateGate bullshit. Junk science. The other side runs back and forth contesting the junk science as well as possible considering it is thrown with such speed that it makes you feel as though you're playing singles tennis against 20 opponents.

The "CO2 Bad" crowd maintains their rabid...and I do mean RABID...defence of a bunch of "scientists" that have been caught with their hands in the "I want another grant" cookie jar. Then they turn around and attack anyone taking an opposing view as supporters/shills for energy companies. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

No one seems to want to broach the truism that is - who the hell cares if the planet warms a couple of degrees? "Oh! But millions will be displaced because they live near sea level!!!" So? These are the same people that keep getting wiped out by tsunamis and hurricanes each year BECAUSE THEY LIVE NEAR SEA LEVEL. "Oh! But millions will starve in third world nations because it will be too hot for crops to grow!!!" So? They were singing "Feed the World" over 25 years ago BECAUSE MILLIONS STARVE IN THIRD WORLD NATIONS BECAUSE IT IS TOO HOT FOR CROPS TO GROW. Not my problem and not your problem.

"What will we do will the displaced millions?" Who cares. Again, not my problem. There are lots of bad things that happen every year on this planet. We help those we can, and we have telethons that nobody watches for those we can't. We send billions in cash (and prizes!) to alleviate our "guilt" and to get those infernal images off our televisions for another 6-12 months. People starve in this country and yet we send much needed cash to a bunch of third world cesspools. But it's okay; we feel better for a while.

"CO2 emissions from the oilsands will kill the planet!" And???? Alberta has a ton of oil, as does Saskatchewan. Guess what? We're going to continue producing "the black plague" from it for many, many years to come. Why? Because someone needs to supply what you need for your VW microbus to drive to all of those protests. And to supply base stock to make that computer you're typing on. And to make that "environmentally friendly, eco-safe" refillable water bottle you're always lugging around. Do you feel globally guilty? Don't. We'll take the blame on the world stage and it won't interrupt our sleep at night.

Globally, one fact has always been true and always will be. Money rules the world. We have it, poor countries don't (hence the word "poor".) That means that we can get away with pretty much anything we want and don't have to answer for it. I, for one, like it that way. So that leaves two items to contend with: Blame and guilt. We'll take the blame, and you ClimateGate guys take the guilt part. That way we're all happy.

I have some shopping left to do, and it's -25C right now so I'm going to go outside and let one of my V8 domestic trucks idle for probably 45 minutes (maybe I'll start both for fun - company gas you know). When they're warm, I will drive, in 4 wheel drive, to a bunch of stores across my little town and spend way too much buying stuff I know people don't really need. But it'll make me and them happy, so I'm going to do it. Then tonight, I will drink beer and my family and I will play "Do They Know It's Christmas" from youtube and I'll remind my 11 and 12 year olds that there are people in poor countries that don't have enough to eat this Christmas. We'll all feel bad, and then I'll have another beer.

Merry Christmas to all of you. Especially you, ClimateGate Twins.

Well, you've made it clear that you're fine with playing your part in causing misery for others. I wonder if others on the board will rally behind your unabashed statements here.

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Well, you've made it clear that you're fine with playing your part in causing misery for others. I wonder if others on the board will rally behind your unabashed statements here.

Of course! What is it exactly about your lifestyle that specifically does not cause "misery for others"?

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Of course! What is it exactly about your lifestyle that specifically does not cause "misery for others"?

Before going after me, why don't you explain how you feel about that poster's apparent pride in contributing to the misery of the poor ? Aren't you disgusted with that ? If not, then what's wrong with you exactly ?

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Before going after me, why don't you explain how you feel about that poster's apparent pride in contributing to the misery of the poor ? Aren't you disgusted with that ? If not, then what's wrong with you exactly ?

Perhaps you need to consider who is "going after" whom with such righteousness in this scenario. The poster is not contributing to such "misery" any more than the rest of us in our collective political and economic choices.

What's wrong with me? I'm an American.

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Perhaps you need to consider who is "going after" whom with such righteousness in this scenario. The poster is not contributing to such "misery" any more than the rest of us in our collective political and economic choices.

What's wrong with me? I'm an American.

Why aren't you asking him about his glee over causing misery to others ?

There's nothing wrong with being American, but to gladly say "too bad if my actions cause death and displacement for your people" - I don't know if I've ever done that, and I feel like pointing out the negativity in such a statement when its posted here.

You on the other hand, want to ask me in italics about my life, and my choices. I'm pretty sure some of my choices impact others, but I don't think I would ever express unabashed disregard for the results of those choices.

So don't try to paint me as 'holier than thou' when this poster made the choice to actually articulate his disregard for others. That's the whole point of his post.

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Why aren't you asking him about his glee over causing misery to others ?

Because no such "glee" was expressed.

There's nothing wrong with being American, but to gladly say "too bad if my actions cause death and displacement for your people" - I don't know if I've ever done that, and I feel like pointing out the negativity in such a statement when its posted here.

Are you serious? You may not feel personally responsible for the death, displacement, subjugation, etc., but you certainly benefit from these things that continue to this day.

You on the other hand, want to ask me in italics about my life, and my choices. I'm pretty sure some of my choices impact others, but I don't think I would ever express unabashed disregard for the results of those choices.

What you express is far less significant compared to what you do, how you live, where you live, etc. If you feel free to admonish others, don't be surprised when it blows back into your face.

So don't try to paint me as 'holier than thou' when this poster made the choice to actually articulate his disregard for others. That's the whole point of his post.

You have painted yourself as 'holier than thou'.....I am just making it obvious.

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You're pretty silent on what he has said, though. So you agree with it ?
What did he say? Nature does bad things happen to poor people no matter what we do? That is a true statement. It is also a true statement that development and wealth creation is the best defense against climate change no matter how much CO2 is emitted in the process.
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I have some shopping left to do, and it's -25C right now so I'm going to go outside and let one of my V8 domestic trucks idle for probably 45 minutes (maybe I'll start both for fun - company gas you know).

Good for you Hydra. If I could, I would.

When they're warm, I will drive, in 4 wheel drive, to a bunch of stores across my little town and spend way too much buying stuff I know people don't really need. But it'll make me and them happy, so I'm going to do it.

On behalf of myself and those small and large retailers, thank you for contributing to our economy. More importantly, through your consumerism you show those close to you that you love them.

Then tonight, I will drink beer and my family and I will play "Do They Know It's Christmas" from youtube and I'll remind my 11 and 12 year olds that there are people in poor countries that don't have enough to eat this Christmas. We'll all feel bad, and then I'll have another beer.

Geez, I'm 62. Way before the internet and youtube I and my family felt bad for those poor souls starving in Biafra. There will always be societies worse off than ours. Poverty in parts of the world is not a new concept.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

I raise a glass and wish you and yours a Merry Christmas.

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Good for you Hydra. If I could, I would.

On behalf of myself and those small and large retailers, thank you for contributing to our economy. More importantly, through your consumerism you show those close to you that you love them.

Geez, I'm 62. Way before the internet and youtube I and my family felt bad for those poor souls starving in Biafra. There will always be societies worse off than ours. Poverty in parts of the world is not a new concept.

I raise a glass and wish you and yours a Merry Christmas.

I have a glass of 12 year old single malt being carefully consumed within the confines of my own home, Merry Christmas to all!

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Well, you've made it clear that you're fine with playing your part in causing misery for others. I wonder if others on the board will rally behind your unabashed statements here.

I am fine playing my part in causing misery for others. Do I like the "misery" part? No, but I will not be guilted into cowering. Someone, please prove I'm causing misery.

The other posters on the board? Who cares? They will either agree, disagree, complain, report, bitch, moan or make self-righteous statements (as you tend to). I won't lose a moment's sleep over it. You post as though I should actually care. This is a political board where pretty much everyone is anonymous, so why would yours or anyone else's opinion give me any cause to change my attitude?

Does the honesty of my post piss you off or just shock you because you would never dream of being that blatant? I work for my money, and I am entitled to spend it however the fuck I see fit. I am entitled to my entitlements. Thanks Jean.

Do I let both my trucks run even if I don't intend to drive them? Sometimes. My company truck sits on the road in front of my house because my boat with the two-stroke motor sits on one half of my driveway (you should see THAT son-of-a-bitch smoke when it's started!!) and I can't plug it in. If I don't let it run for a while every couple of days while I'm on vacation, I have to boost it. Sorry, but suck it up.

I live in the richest province in Canada...Alberta. I probably (?) work more hours in a week than a hell of a lot of people work in a month. I have had to be away from my family for weeks at a time for my job. Am I complaining? No, but I make more money than most and that EARNS me the right to spend it. Incidentally, I also give more to our local version of Santas Anonymous every year than most families SPEND on Christmas every year. I'm not looking for an "atta boy" or any other reaction for that matter, but understand that CURRENTLY, the Alberta oil patch pays for me to pay for that. If you don't like the "tar sands", I don't fucking care. It supplies my family with a very comfortable life. Good enough for me.

You seem to be fairly intelligent. Would you like to PM me your resume and I'll see if I know anyone that has an opening for a "self-righteous, left wing, over judgemental, enviromentally-concerned, quasi-political blogger? Shell or BP might be looking. Let me know.

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What did he say? Nature does bad things happen to poor people no matter what we do? That is a true statement. It is also a true statement that development and wealth creation is the best defense against climate change no matter how much CO2 is emitted in the process.

He said "who cares".

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Agree with what....what "he" said or your twisted interpretation?

No matter....my chosen lifestyle requires more BTUs....so does yours.

My question again:

You're pretty silent on what he has said, though. So you agree with it ?

I guess I'm asking about the "who cares" part. If a left-of-centre poster put something on the board along the lines of "who cares if I blow up the homes of this-or-that CEO" do you think I would respond critically ? I think I would.

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....I guess I'm asking about the "who cares" part. If a left-of-centre poster put something on the board along the lines of "who cares if I blow up the homes of this-or-that CEO" do you think I would respond critically ? I think I would.

Who cares how you would respond....it's no big deal. "Who cares" implies a general ambivalence, not agreement.

But in this case, I most certainly agree with "his" post....gotta go plug in my block heater.

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Consumerism is a type of auto-cannibalism. Standing at the Blade Runner intersection of Canada's biggest city I could not help but feel that the throngs of consumers were in effect the food and were really the once being consumed buy the super dog masters of materialism.

I mentioned this before that we can not have it both ways...at this point in time like a hungry human body..first it consumes the fat- the fuel, then it goes for the muscle..we are eating the muscle at this point in time and for the day after Christmas there is a great grey gloom over the town....and it is warm when it should be balanced and cold..we have lost the seasons...and that is a loss of natural law and order..those in charge are lawless and those that deny the physical facts and insist that all is well are insanely greedy.

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Consumerism is a type of auto-cannibalism. Standing at the Blade Runner intersection of Canada's biggest city I could not help but feel that the throngs of consumers were in effect the food and were really the once being consumed buy the super dog masters of materialism.

I mentioned this before that we can not have it both ways...at this point in time like a hungry human body..first it consumes the fat- the fuel, then it goes for the muscle..we are eating the muscle at this point in time and for the day after Christmas there is a great grey gloom over the town....and it is warm when it should be balanced and cold..we have lost the seasons...and that is a loss of natural law and order..those in charge are lawless and those that deny the physical facts and insist that all is well are insanely greedy.

Yet society has and will continue to evolve. We are in a post industrial revolution stage where the actual method of production has changed all that we knew. The next phase of development is already mapped out and that is automated production. We WILL morph into a resource based economy whether we want to or not. This nation is poised for huge potential, if we can only get our heads out of the sand and start thinking about how to go about this ourselves. We no longer need foreign investment to take a few steps forward. On the other hand because of our past we will need to start heading things off at the pass in short order.

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Yet society has and will continue to evolve. We are in a post industrial revolution stage where the actual method of production has changed all that we knew. The next phase of development is already mapped out and that is automated production. We WILL morph into a resource based economy whether we want to or not. This nation is poised for huge potential, if we can only get our heads out of the sand and start thinking about how to go about this ourselves. We no longer need foreign investment to take a few steps forward. On the other hand because of our past we will need to start heading things off at the pass in short order.

My sister likes to live in odd places like central america...she digs in with the poor and manages to survive..she has had and lost many fortunes..she commented once that rich is not forever nor is poor forever. Things to evolve and revolve. As a kid I imagined myself as poor..my dear sister reminded me that we were not poor..just stupid rich people...I guess our national family consists of the stupid rich..we must realize that we are a very very blessed nation and start to act with the responsiveness that befits our real status. We have the best and most real of all estates...land - the most valuable on the planet and a little real protectionism might come in handy. We need not depend on anyone for trade- we are akin to being 10 nations..we should trade with each other.

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My sister likes to live in odd places like central america...she digs in with the poor and manages to survive..she has had and lost many fortunes..she commented once that rich is not forever nor is poor forever. Things to evolve and revolve. As a kid I imagined myself as poor..my dear sister reminded me that we were not poor..just stupid rich people...I guess our national family consists of the stupid rich..we must realize that we are a very very blessed nation and start to act with the responsiveness that befits our real status. We have the best and most real of all estates...land - the most valuable on the planet and a little real protectionism might come in handy. We need not depend on anyone for trade- we are akin to being 10 nations..we should trade with each other.

There is a step in the right direct Oleg. Changing the way we think of ourselves. We literally can be all that we want to be.

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