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Tories to crack down on parole for non-violent offenders


jdobbin

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It must be terribly embarassing to be so smug and self-righteous about equalization when you don't even know that your own province also now receives billions in equalization. :lol:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp#Ontario

Well, I'm not complaining about overcroweded Ontario prisons, am I? And the money Ontario recieves is a small drop in the bucket compared to the money Onatrio's been giving away over the last several decades. Kind of like somebody giving you $5 back after you've continously lent them thousands.

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well it's great to lock up some deserving non violent offenders but I've greater concerns with repeat violent offenders, some of these people need to be put away for good...there is one running around on the in the west that has a number of previous convictions for assault and sexual assault, why do we let these people out? ever?...

.and then there those petty criinals that get arrested with dozens of charges against them but are only sentenced as if they have commited a single crime? what's up with that?....

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This is because it transfers people from provincial jails to the federal jails because of sentences larger than 2 years.

Other changes the Feds make though clog the provincial side of jails.

My understanding is you go federal if your sentence is over 2 years, provincial if under.

Ending the 2 for 1 deal isn't going to shift prisoners from prov to fed. It' is, however, going to keep them in provincial pens longer than they would otherwise be there.

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We have gone over this before. The police say the registry is something they want and need.

Not actually. Some big city chiefs, beholden to very left wing police boards, esp in Central Canada, have said the thing is useful. Logically, however, it serves NO useful purpose in that it is highly innacurate to the point no competent police officer would rely on what it says.

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That's right, most police are not that worried about the guns criminals use. My nephew is in the RCMP and he uses the registry every single time he responds to reports of alcohol-fuelled domestic-violence. These represent about half of the calls he gets.

And what does he do with the information he reads there?

Let's see. It says there is a rifle somewhwere in the house. Which may or may not be true (the registry is highly innacurate). Okay, so what? According to procedure, police officers going to such addresses are supposed to assume there could be a firearm there somewhere anyway. So how does this help in any way? How does it change what he's supposed to be doing?

You arrive at the house and find two people in the kitchen yelling at each other. Do you then hold the man at gunpoint until you can go out to the garage or down to the basement to get the rifle?

Then what? Then he pulls out his unregistered hand gun and blows your face off?

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Nope. I want them in jail too. But it seems like Manitoba is the only province with that problem.

Afraid not. We've seen it in Saskatchewan where murderers escaped. I won't even go into places like Ontario where last week we saw things explode in Milhaven.

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Oh my, Mr Passive Aggressive making threats now......... new style? Getting hair implants too?

Think it is yourself with the passive aggressive tendencies. I can't imagine that you act in such a way publicly without being called on it. Generally, speaking I call such anonymous sniping as cowardly.

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My understanding is you go federal if your sentence is over 2 years, provincial if under.

Ending the 2 for 1 deal isn't going to shift prisoners from prov to fed. It' is, however, going to keep them in provincial pens longer than they would otherwise be there.

Some of the linked articles here indicate that a lot of the sentences would exceed 2 years with the changes. I'd like to see some more analysis of the whole thing because it comes on top of other changes but this is what we were hearing last week.

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Not actually. Some big city chiefs, beholden to very left wing police boards, esp in Central Canada, have said the thing is useful. Logically, however, it serves NO useful purpose in that it is highly innacurate to the point no competent police officer would rely on what it says.

If the right wing feels this way, let's see a polling of cops across the country. I keep hearing about the left wing conspiracy on this but it sounds like a way to dismiss it all and simply go to ending the program without a proper assessment.

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Blubber, I made a lighthearted joke, which was met with a threat.

Try and relax.

And I made a simple lighthearted joke about what must happen regularly in your life when you act out.

Only someone delusional would regard it as a threat.

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If the right wing feels this way, let's see a polling of cops across the country. I keep hearing about the left wing conspiracy on this but it sounds like a way to dismiss it all and simply go to ending the program without a proper assessment.

Jdobbin, it's very unlikely that police chiefs and their superiors would ever allow such a poll. The chiefs are involved in the political aspects of the registry. Frontline cops face real world situations.

I'm surprised you're fighting this argument. The fact that the registry is useless to let a cop know he's calling at a house that may contain a firearm is only common sense! There are really only two possibilities. Either the registry may be taken as gospel about the situation or it can't. If you're going to continue supporting it then you must be taking the position that a cop CAN accept the registry report as true!

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Jdobbin, it's very unlikely that police chiefs and their superiors would ever allow such a poll. The chiefs are involved in the political aspects of the registry. Frontline cops face real world situations.

I don't see how they can stop it.

It is like thinking the Canadian Wheat Board could stop polling their members on the end of the Wheat Board. They couldn't do it.

I'm surprised you're fighting this argument. The fact that the registry is useless to let a cop know he's calling at a house that may contain a firearm is only common sense! There are really only two possibilities. Either the registry may be taken as gospel about the situation or it can't. If you're going to continue supporting it then you must be taking the position that a cop CAN accept the registry report as true!

I'm surprised you are taking the angle that the chiefs are only saying what they are saying for fear of their jobs.

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I don't see how they can stop it.

It is like thinking the Canadian Wheat Board could stop polling their members on the end of the Wheat Board. They couldn't do it.

I'm surprised you are taking the angle that the chiefs are only saying what they are saying for fear of their jobs.

Why can't they stop it? Canadian soldiers are under strict orders not to comment on the Afghanistan mission to the press! That was in the media last week. All they have to do is to tell rank and file cops that if they are caught giving their opinions it will cost them their jobs. You could still have a "secret" poll, of course. How can they know that an individual cop answered a random phone call? Still, the fear would be there. Also, they could disparage any such poll as biased, without fear of any contradiction from those actually polled.

And I am NOT saying that the chiefs are afraid for their jobs! I'm saying that chiefs are political animals themselves. From a Machiavellian POV, it is in their interest to keep any tool they get, no matter how expensive or ineffective. The cost is borne by taxes, which are not their concern. As far as effectiveness, even a blunt axe is better than nothing. Much better for them to champion the registry. Later they can try to have it improved into something useful.

Meanwhile, nice segue! You're very good at that! Again, now how about explaining how you can deny the logic of how the registry is useless when a cop has to call on a door...

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Why can't they stop it? Canadian soldiers are under strict orders not to comment on the Afghanistan mission to the press! That was in the media last week. All they have to do is to tell rank and file cops that if they are caught giving their opinions it will cost them their jobs. You could still have a "secret" poll, of course. How can they know that an individual cop answered a random phone call? Still, the fear would be there. Also, they could disparage any such poll as biased, without fear of any contradiction from those actually polled.

Think a secret poll is just that. Secret. Unless you are thinking the police will tap in to find out how the vote went and punish cops accordingly.

And I am NOT saying that the chiefs are afraid for their jobs! I'm saying that chiefs are political animals themselves. From a Machiavellian POV, it is in their interest to keep any tool they get, no matter how expensive or ineffective. The cost is borne by taxes, which are not their concern. As far as effectiveness, even a blunt axe is better than nothing. Much better for them to champion the registry. Later they can try to have it improved into something useful
.

All I hear is the right wing shouting to end the program.

I didn't support it to start with but I'll be darned if I don't find out if it is indeed useful to the police. I just don't believe police chiefs are afraid for their job and supporting the program to keep those jobs.

Meanwhile, nice segue! You're very good at that! Again, now how about explaining how you can deny the logic of how the registry is useless when a cop has to call on a door...

The police access the registry all the time. The Tories are the ones trying to dismantle the program or make it useless.

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I seriously doubt that the police find anything at all useful in the information recorded by the registry... but the opportunities to pile on lazy additional charges, and to stretch the consents to inspection that are part of the registration parcel are likely very convenient indeed.

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