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Benoît Labonté and Canadian Federalism


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Of all the posts in this thread, Wild Bill, yours gave me pause.

I've read all your posts in this thread. I think you may not realize that you illustrate a difference in POV as old as Canada. You seem to think of the country as Quebec and TROC!

This story is indeed more of a provincial matter. As such, you might assume that it should receive half the attention of the national news. Yet to someone in Saskatchewan, it is on a par with stories not just from Quebec but from any other province. The story competes with "man bites dog" stories from PEI or Manitoba.

I think you have a point here.
Also, Liberal corruption stories are no longer as big a deal as they once were. After Adscam, there is a widespread notion of "what else is new?" among the common people. It may not be entirely fair, but it is what it is. As for these stories coming from Quebec, we've been hearing this stuff since the days of Maurice Duplessis. So it is natural that they are not treated as "unexpected". Besides, "politician" is a bilingual word! ANY stories about ANY politician and corruption have gotten to be "old news".
In Quebec, the Liberals are federalist and so this story matters. I think my point is that Benoît Labonté is perceived as a federalist and despite his association with Harel, he described Adscam.

My OP was trying to make, like sovereignists, the equivalence of federalism and corruption. Under the Liberals, federalism in Quebec was perceived as corrupt.

In truth, I suspect that la Question nationale dominates modern Quebec politics so much that other issues - even rank corruption - fade and disappear. It is sad that in this Montreal municipal election, I know several people who will vote for Tremblay merely because he is a federalist and others who will vote for Harel because she favours Quebec independance.

What's more, I don't follow your putting blame on Harper. It almost sounded like you blame him more than the Liberals! You seem to be saying that the only federalist choice in Quebec is the Liberals and if they are tainted then separation is the only option. If I've misunderstood you please clarify.
On the contrary, I don't blame Harper at all.

Rather (and I may be wrong), I think Harper and Blackburn at Revenue Canada started all this by federal tax investigations of construction companies in Montreal. Even if Harper didn't start this, he encouraged it and I think Harper is sending a message to other municipal politicians in Quebec: "Look what happened to Tremblay in Montreal." OTOH, Régis Labeaume in Quebec City has no fear of re-election.

If I am right, Harper knows what he's doing.

Edited by August1991
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Housako? Dobbin, what do you think of Labeaume?

Senator Housakos is intimately linked to the issue but you think it nothing.

What do I think of Lebeaume? As mayor of Quebec City, I expect Harper will hand him $40 million for a new arena.

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The question of separatism doesn't seem to be all that big of a deal right now given polls. I'm not sure I agree with a single one of your premises here.

It's at a very low ebb, and pretty much has been since the 1995 referendum. The Bloc and the PQ make all the appropriate noises, but seem to have no taste for further wars on this front right now, largely because they know the pulse of Quebec as well as anyone, and realize that their electoral successes may, ironically, rest with precisely that strategy.

I don't think Quebec Nationalism is dead, and as we saw in Belgium a couple of years ago, even seemingly acquiescent nationalist movements can explode when you least expect them, but it's certainly not today's debate.

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What do I think of Lebeaume? As mayor of Quebec City, I expect Harper will hand him $40 million for a new arena.
I consider it a victory. Chretien would have given him $60 million, and given us Adscam.

----

You federal Liberals have become the Eatons of the 21st century, and you don't know it. Like the Eatons, you think "your brand name" will save you. It won't.

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I consider it a victory. Chretien would have given him $60 million, and given us Adscam.

I consider it another example of Harper spending out of control. That is not something that you can accuse Chretien of.

Make up your mind. Are you a Tory or a separatist? Maybe a little of both as you try to get as much as possible of out of Canada in taxpayer money?

You federal Liberals have become the Eatons of the 21st century, and you don't know it. Like the Eatons, you think "your brand name" will save you. It won't.

You separatists look to sew dissent in the rest of Canada. We are on to you as well.

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I don't think Quebec Nationalism is dead, and as we saw in Belgium a couple of years ago, even seemingly acquiescent nationalist movements can explode when you least expect them, but it's certainly not today's debate.

I completely agree with you. In our type of federation provincial nationalism will never die, but it's certainly not the now issue.

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It is the ugly critical question behind all Quebec politics, and central to Canadian federal politics - notwithstanding Wild Bill's post.

I would agree with you. Separatism will always have a core vote in Quebec. It is part of that instinct for tribalism in every human being. It appeals to emotion and while emotion may not be as smart as logic for making the correct choice it is every bit as powerful. In politics, much more!

Yet still, it will always be far more important in Quebec than in Red Deer, or Cornerbrook. Most Anglos believe that Quebec receives more federal money than it contributes. You or I could argue if that's actually true but it doesn't matter. The political perception in TROC is what it is. Therefore, if Quebec left it would be sad emotionally but better financially. Again, I'm talking perception and not trying to prove any reality.

If anything, the average Anglo looks upon the Separatistes as having a tinge of racism! "Pur laine", n'est-ce pas? When you have the majority language and culture it's easy to misunderstand the fears of a minority for its survival.

I'm glad that you considered my views as significant. I had the good fortune for a while to answer as a remote salesman to an office in Pointe Claire, staffed by bilingual francophones. They were great people. I actually drank Mauditz beer and lived! This was at the time of the last referendum and although we rarely talked politics I was struck by the similarities between their culture and mine. We both loved Seinfeld and the Borg babe! Yet at the same time I always felt that they were blissfully ignorant and mistaken at how Quebecers were perceived in my part of Canada. The fact that when you drove the 401 in Toronto you saw bilingual traffic signs everywhere and NONE in Montreal never struck them as significant!

Another misconception they held was that if Quebec were to separate it would be a painless divorce, that Anglo Canada would understand it was in both side's interest to be fair and logical about the terms. I didn't say so of course but I thought they were from Mars! Whoever heard of a painless divorce? If Quebec separated they would instantly lose any political clout in Parliament. After all, they could no longer offer a party any seats! The MP's that remained would be beholden to TROC for political power. TROC would be angry and hurt. Emotion would rule and logic would be out the window. Any MP running for office or trying to stay in office that was perceived as being "soft" on the divorce terms to Quebec would receive fewer votes than a Rhino candidate!

Anyhow, enough drift. Suffice to say that there are two very different POV's. I was just making the point that sometimes Quebecers take the Anglo view for granted. A citizen in British Columbia or Nova Scotia is proud to be a Canadian and proud of his province. He never even thinks about speaking English being a factor! He does NOT think in the same terms as his Quebec cousin!

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