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Harper and McGuinty Deficits


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There was a whole bunch of angry Harper-bashing going on when the reality of the Federal deficit hit home. He was criticized for not anticipating it - then criticized for underestimating it......then pilloried again for revising it once more. Now we have Mr. McGuinty's deficit going from zero last year to $14 billion in March, $18 billion in June...and now $25 billion. Doesn't seem to be too much bashing coming from the media. Hmmmmm....wonder why - any thoughts?

Ontario's already record budget shortfall has ballooned to a staggering $24.7 billion – billions higher than economists expected – and "difficult choices" loom, warns Finance Minister Dwight Duncan.

In the fall economic statement tabled Thursday in the Legislature, Duncan revised the deficit projection upward from the $18.5 billion he had announced in June (and the $14.1 billion in the March budget.)

Until earlier this year, the ignominious record was a $12.4 billion shortfall in the 1992 budget introduced by NDP finance minister Floyd Laughren.

Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article...to-24-7-billion

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In Ontario, no TV stations carry the provincial government in question period and I think that is wrong and Ontarians should be able to watch it so they know what is going on.

The Legislature has it's own TV channel. I get it on 129, Rogers Cable. I don't know if question period (held in the morning) is broadcast but I expect it is. I've given up watching question period in the House and wouldn't watch the Ontario bozos in action. It's a waste of my time. The highlights make it into the news anyway.

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Geez, the Ontario Liberals are deficit machines. They've put together a shortfall that rivals the federal deficit, for just a province! Yikes.

And not one penny of it can be blamed on economic stimulus spending. Sad.

Where's Mike Harris when you need him? :(

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Shady

Where's Mike Harris when you need him?

Shaking with rage in the dark, knowing that Bob Rae his old rival wields influence on the national stage while Harris does nothing, apparently. Harris' wiki page indicates no major achievements since 2006, when he testified at the Ipperwash inquiry about saying "I want the F*** Indians out of the park".

Harris contradicted his own Attorney General in denying his statement. A real class act.

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There was a whole bunch of angry Harper-bashing going on when the reality of the Federal deficit hit home. He was criticized for not anticipating it - then criticized for underestimating it......then pilloried again for revising it once more.

"Economist" Harper:

September 15, 2008: "My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now." - Stephen Harper

October 7, 2008: "I think there's probably a lot of great buying opportunities emerging in the stock market as a consequence of all this panic." - Stephen Harper

October 6, 2008: "I know economists will say well, we could run a small deficit but the problem is that once you cross that line as we see in the United States, nothing stops deficits from getting larger and larger and spiralling out of control." - Stephen Harper

November 27, 2008: Flaherty predicts recession, offers no stimulus package

December 15, 2008: "The truth is, I've never seen such uncertainty in terms of looking forward to the future. I'm very worried about the Canadian economy. Obviously, we're going to have to run a deficit." - Stephen Harper

December 16, 2008: Harper says a depression is possible

December 18, 2008: Harper says deficit could hit 30 billion

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"Economist" Harper:

September 15, 2008: "My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now." - Stephen Harper

October 7, 2008: "I think there's probably a lot of great buying opportunities emerging in the stock market as a consequence of all this panic." - Stephen Harper

October 6, 2008: "I know economists will say well, we could run a small deficit but the problem is that once you cross that line as we see in the United States, nothing stops deficits from getting larger and larger and spiralling out of control." - Stephen Harper

November 27, 2008: Flaherty predicts recession, offers no stimulus package

December 15, 2008: "The truth is, I've never seen such uncertainty in terms of looking forward to the future. I'm very worried about the Canadian economy. Obviously, we're going to have to run a deficit." - Stephen Harper

December 16, 2008: Harper says a depression is possible

December 18, 2008: Harper says deficit could hit 30 billion

That's the whole point........that was way back in December.....and the Conservatives were blasted for saying those things. Ontario, with the benefit of an extra 6-9 months, did not "foresee" their deficit which now sits at $25 billion and counting.

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The Federal government get more exposure due to being on C-Pac and everyone can watch what is happening. In Ontario, no TV stations carry the provincial government in question period and I think that is wrong and Ontarians should be able to watch it so they know what is going on.

Wrong again, Topaz! At least where I live. Ch 70 on cable carries the federal stuff and Ch 71 carries the provincial. I watch them often.

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That's the whole point........that was way back in December.....and the Conservatives were blasted for saying those things. Ontario, with the benefit of an extra 6-9 months, did not "foresee" their deficit which now sits at $25 billion and counting.

Didn't forsee? Are you kidding me? A deficit in Ontario- a serious one- was a given! Manufacturing was crashing! It didn't take a finance minister nor an economist to read that writing on the wall. The only question was how bad, and the round answer was 'extremely'.

The absurdity is that Harper and Flaherty seemed to be the last two people in the country to realize it!

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Ontarios problems are deep and quite frankly near the point of no return. I just came from a very important meeting with Corporates Government and Colleges. The writing was on the wall since 2005 the direction that Industry wanted to go, or more importantly ... "WHERE" industry wanted to go.

Profitable companies and good paying jobs left with the loving support of the Federal Government under Liberal and Conservative governance along with the complete apathy of a Provincial government living in a bubble of delusion.

These bunch of suckers and losers are now reaping all the benefits of the policies they have sown.

Community Colleges are lost on where to go next. Industry that remains here is suggesting the volumes of skilled trades and training will not sustain a future and there isn't the volumes of jobs to go to to support training courses.

Yet, everyone recognised the way out of the mess is a strong industrial sector, everyone except the Provincial and Federal Government.

These two governments are dreaming in technicolour. What was funny is that the Federal and Provincial governments will be able to sell their way out of the mess, but not steer their way out of it.

Only a great optimist would dare suggest that Ontario is out of the recession. All accounts suggest that Ontario is going to tank alot further.

Meanwhile, the Provincial government is heading towards early learning pre kindgarten, while having a massive $26 Billion deficit.

Where are the BANKS??? Cheering the Province on Every borrowed dime.... just waiting for the interest payments to roll in.

The McGuinty government is the WRONG government to deal with an industrial crises, let alone a recession. The crises existed 1st, the recession was just another inconvience along the way that unmasked the disgraceful policies of the Largest Industrial Province in Canada.

It would be like Alberta ignoring Oil or BC ignoring Forestry and saying, we don't need this, we are going to retrain everyone and they will be health care providers, insurance salesman and financial consultants.....etc.

Edited by madmax
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Well, that's what ten bucks and an economics degree gets you.

The "economics" MA thesis that Harper wrote was entitled The Political Business Cycle and Fiscal Policy in Canada. It examined whether political parties manipulated fiscal policy during election years to improve their chances of re-election. Such a thesis could just as easily have been awarded in a University's Political Science Department.

Harper has never worked as an economist and his thesis was more politics than economics.

No wonder he viewed the crash as a buying opportunity.

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Didn't forsee? Are you kidding me? A deficit in Ontario- a serious one- was a given! Manufacturing was crashing! It didn't take a finance minister nor an economist to read that writing on the wall. The only question was how bad, and the round answer was 'extremely'.

The absurdity is that Harper and Flaherty seemed to be the last two people in the country to realize it!

Don't know about that. Perhaps you forgot how much pressure they were putting on McGuinty a couple of years back to stop running up spending and to lower taxes? The Liberals came into office with a small deficit they exagerated into a moderate deficit. They then drastically increased taxes, but still continued to run deficits because they increased spending by 50% in their first term of office. And for all of that there is no noticeable improvement in health care, education, roads, welfare, or anything else.

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Don't know about that. Perhaps you forgot how much pressure they were putting on McGuinty a couple of years back to stop running up spending and to lower taxes? The Liberals came into office with a small deficit they exagerated into a moderate deficit. They then drastically increased taxes, but still continued to run deficits because they increased spending by 50% in their first term of office. And for all of that there is no noticeable improvement in health care, education, roads, welfare, or anything else.

Yes, they increased taxes at the bottom end. And are going to do so again with the HST.

There seems to be little difference between the fiscal incompetence of the Ontario Liberals and the Federal Conservatives.

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Yes, they increased taxes at the bottom end. And are going to do so again with the HST.

There seems to be little difference between the fiscal incompetence of the Ontario Liberals and the Federal Conservatives.

There is a major difference in that the federal deficit is largely due to the "incentive spending" and when that spending stops the deficit will be enormously reduced.

Ontario's deficit is all program spending. There's no easy way to reduce it.

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