Canada denies bribing Taliban

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091016/...an_cda_payments

The Agence France-Presse story claimed several NATO countries, with the U.S. and Britain as notable exceptions, made payments to the Taliban in order to pacify territory under their control. The report named Germany and Canada in particular.

It also referenced an earlier report in the Times of London that said Italian forces had been giving money to the Taliban in exchange for peace in the areas it was patrolling near Kabul.

Holy crap. Even if one country in NATO did it, I think it is terrible.

I don't believe Canada paid anyone but I'd like to know more from the French press.

After the release of Fowler, I think scrutiny is needed about what is happening and if payments by some in NATO is happening.

Edited October 16, 2009 by jdobbin

[Sir Bandelot]

I don't want to believe it either. If Canada paid off the Taliban to keep the peace then why are our troops taking so much heat? That doesn't make much sense. I just read a response from Peter Mackay that also doesn't make sense. No surprise there though.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay, speaking in St. John's, described the allegations as likely little more than "Taliban propaganda."

"This suggestion that we're bribing the Taliban not to engage in military - or I would call them terrorist attacks - clearly isn't working," he said.

"We've had 131 casualties. So, that sad reality seems to put to lie what the Taliban are saying."

While NATO has strenuously denied knowledge of any such payments, it did acknowledge that the Afghan government has at times struck agreements with militants on its own initiative.

Canada denies bribing Taliban

Good to know. First of all if Mackay says this is just Taliban propaganda, why's it coming from a French news source.

Secondly, they openly acknowledge knowing that the Afghanistan government has "struck agreements" with militants, all the while our troops are fighting against them. If those deals included money, and the Taliban use that to buy weapons, fuel, supplies to fight against us...

See what happens when you go to try and help some people, who really don't WANT your help.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[capricorn]

From the Times article mentioned in the Agence France-Presse story.

When ten French soldiers were killed last year in an ambush by Afghan insurgents in what had seemed a relatively peaceful area, the French public were horrified.

Their revulsion increased with the news that many of the dead soldiers had been mutilated — and with the publication of photographs showing the militants triumphantly sporting their victims’ flak jackets and weapons. The French had been in charge of the Sarobi area, east of Kabul, for only a month, taking over from the Italians; it was one of the biggest single losses of life by Nato forces in Afghanistan.

What the grieving nation did not know was that in the months before the French soldiers arrived in mid-2008, the Italian secret service had been paying tens of thousands of dollars to Taleban commanders and local warlords to keep the area quiet, The Times has learnt. The clandestine payments, whose existence was hidden from the incoming French forces, were disclosed by Western military officials.

US intelligence officials were flabbergasted when they found out through intercepted telephone conversations that the Italians had also been buying off militants, notably in Herat province in the far west. In June 2008, several weeks before the ambush, the US Ambassador in Rome made a démarche, or diplomatic protest, to the Berlusconi Government over allegations concerning the tactic.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6875376.ece

This implies that the information stems from US intelligence. The Taliban may in fact be spreading this misinformation to throw off NATO allies. What better way to plant this information than to plug into the US's intelligence conduits. It would be interesting to know who the Times' source is.

The Italian government has denied the claim they ever bribed the Taliban.

Le gouvernement italien s’insurge: il «n’a jamais autorisé, ni consenti aucune forme de paiement d’argent aux membres de l’insurrection talibane en Afghanistan»

http://www.tdg.ch/actu/monde/services-secr...ises-2009-10-15

This is truly a curious story.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it was Jack Layton....he wanted to bribe the Taliban from day one!

[DogOnPorch]

As Sir B mentions...if we're payin' them...it ain't workin'.

[xul]

If the allegation is true or partly true, I guess it's just that some NATO members were trying to fund some Afghan tribes for helping them against Taliban and they were not aware those guys they funded were real Taliban. Media is used to blame American air raids responsible for killing a lot of innocent people in Afghanistan but isn't used to ask who give these misinformation to American. I guess 90% of these misinformation givers are real Taliban agents and the CIA pays their salary for their helpful "cooperation".

Edited October 17, 2009 by xul

[punked]

Screw it lets just leave. This war the Liberals started and the Conservatives continue is enough already.

PS true or untrue I think that we see a dip in the polls for the Cons off of this.

Edited October 17, 2009 by punked

[M.Dancer]

In other news, the media asks. do we still beat our wives?

Yeah..the province is pacified ...troopers die....and we kill the terrorists.....

...but do we still beat our wives?

[punked]

Ohhhhh also want to say, I want to know the source becuase right now it appears the source to this is the Taliban. Unlike my Liberals friends I don't hate Harper so much to take the word of the Taliban over the Canadian government with out proof. Right now I will give them the benefit of the doubt although I did the samething for the Liberals on adscam so call me an optimist for believing in our government regardless of party.

[eyeball]

Apparently the Sunnis in Iraq were paid to not attack US forces so similar developments in Afghanistan should come as little surprise.

One of the younger members of Moltz’s A Company acknowledged that he found it hard to grasp such a rapid shifting of alliances.

“I’m not sure about this,” he said. “Two months ago, these guys were shooting at us. Now we’re supposed to be friends. It’s kind of hard when you know that guy blew up your buddy.”

Story

[Guest American Woman]

Apparently the Sunnis in Iraq were paid to not attack US forces so similar developments in Afghanistan should come as little surprise.

Are you comparing Sunnis to the Taliban?

[Wild Bill]

I fail to see the logic behind this story.

First off, there isn't one unified Taliban! You could give money to one group and be attacked by a different one. Or leadership of a group could change and the new leaders would not honour old agreements.

Second, these people have never shown that they keep their word anyway! Not just with we 'infidel dogs' but amongst themselves!

It simply doesn't make sense, except as a piece of artful propaganda designed to fool the naive.

[Guest American Woman]

I fail to see the logic behind this story.

First off, there isn't one unified Taliban! You could give money to one group and be attacked by a different one. Or leadership of a group could change and the new leaders would not honour old agreements.

Second, these people have never shown that they keep their word anyway! Not just with we 'infidel dogs' but amongst themselves!

It simply doesn't make sense, except as a piece of artful propaganda designed to fool the naive.

This article, involving Italy bribing the Taliban, makes sense: French troops were killed after Italy hushed up ‘bribes’ to Taleban

Excerpts:

When ten French soldiers were killed last year in an ambush by Afghan insurgents in what had seemed a relatively peaceful area, the French public were horrified.

What the grieving nation did not know was that in the months before the French soldiers arrived in mid-2008, the Italian secret service had been paying tens of thousands of dollars to Taleban commanders and local warlords to keep the area quiet, The Times has learnt. The clandestine payments, whose existence was hidden from the incoming French forces, were disclosed by Western military officials.

Western officials say that because the French knew nothing of the payments they made a catastrophically incorrect threat assessment.

[Argus]

Apparently the Sunnis in Iraq were paid to not attack US forces so similar developments in Afghanistan should come as little surprise.

I'm sure there's some truth in all of it, simply from what I understand of what happened in Iraq, and the composition of those fighting NATO in Afghanistan.

In Iraq, the US ultimately succeded because Al Quaeda pissed off too many of the locals by blowing up their mosques and planting bombs in markets. While they were killing Americans the local chieftains weren't too conerned. When they started killing their own people their suport wavered considerably. The U.S. adied in this by bribing some of the local clan chiefs with either money or weapons (to fight Al Quaeda) and/or projects and jobs for their people. It worked, and eventually the local "militias" did what the US couldn't, and killed off most of the Al Quaeda types.

In Afghanistan, some of those fighting against NATO are hard-core Taliban. They get their weapons and money from Pakistan and Iran. They also recruit locally by making deals with local war/clan chiefs, often for money. They pay local people to plant IEDs on the roads, and pay local men to join them in attacks on NATO forces. In a dirt poor land that works quite well. NATO tries to counter this by making deals with local chieftains for aid to their sector, new scools, mosques, roads and irrigation, etc. But hearts and minds only works so well in a poverty stricken land, and realistically, local chiefs may well decide to take the Taliban money and send their people out to join in an attack. It's nothing personal. They might not have anything partiuclarly against NATO forces. They just need/want the money. Recognizing this, I have no doubt that NATO forces, at times, including Americans, bribe these chiefs themselves. How well they then live up to their side of the bargain I leave to those there watching.

[Argus]

Screw it lets just leave. This war the Liberals started and the Conservatives continue is enough already.

The doomsday scenario that would follow a Taliban resumption of power in Afghanistan is much deadlier today than it was in 1989 when the Russians were evicted. Once firmly established as the government in Kabul, the Taliban could and would focus their energies and talents on the real prize, Pakistan, where their brothers in arms have managed to advance, in one case, within 100 kilometres of the capital, Islamabad. With Afghanistan under their control, a reinforced Taliban would have greater potential to close that gap and bring the control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and delivery systems within reach.

If Taliban win - There Goes The Neighbourhood

PS true or untrue I think that we see a dip in the polls for the Cons off of this.

Wishful thinking is nice, isn't it? That's no doubt what the OP was engaged in when he posted this, as he posts any and all negative news about Afghanistan.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Argus

[punked]

Wishful thinking is nice, isn't it? That's no doubt what the OP was engaged in when he posted this, as he posts any and all negative news about Afghanistan.

First I am so scared. Wait no I'm not.

Next let me clarify I think you will see a small dip in the polls if the Liberals jump on this however if it turns out to be Taliban propaganda then the Liberals will crash and burn for jumping on it. It is a real risk.

[Sir Bandelot]

In Iraq, the US ultimately succeded because Al Quaeda pissed off too many of the locals by blowing up their mosques and planting bombs in markets.

There was no major presence of Al Qaeda in Iraq before the US came there. If Al Qaeda existed there at all prior to the invasion, it was only a minimal presence.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creport...8-301/sec13.pdf

But likely that they did set up operations once the Americans were there, as US presence drew them in like a magnet.

However having actually read most of the news myself during that time, the majority of these attacks on civilians and mosques was by sunnies vs. shiites.

Do try to get it right, once in a while

[jdobbin]

Wishful thinking is nice, isn't it? That's no doubt what the OP was engaged in when he posted this, as he posts any and all negative news about Afghanistan.

I said I doubted the story. But you still act like a donkey.

[Argus]

I said I doubted the story. But you still act like a donkey.

You doubted it - and yet you posted it anyway. Just like you post every casualty - sadly - and every hint of corruption - disappointedly, and every suggestion of human rights abuse - indignantly.

I'm guessing that if Ignatieff got in these sorts of posts would abruptly come to an end, even if we stayedin Afghanistan till the cows come home.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Argus

[Guest American Woman]

This article, involving Italy bribing the Taliban, makes sense: French troops were killed after Italy hushed up ‘bribes’ to Taleban

Excerpts:

When ten French soldiers were killed last year in an ambush by Afghan insurgents in what had seemed a relatively peaceful area, the French public were horrified.

What the grieving nation did not know was that in the months before the French soldiers arrived in mid-2008, the Italian secret service had been paying tens of thousands of dollars to Taleban commanders and local warlords to keep the area quiet, The Times has learnt. The clandestine payments, whose existence was hidden from the incoming French forces, were disclosed by Western military officials.

Western officials say that because the French knew nothing of the payments they made a catastrophically incorrect threat assessment.

Since I posted this, I want to point out that I just read that Italy is denying it, too.

On Thursday, the Italian government and NATO officials denied reports in the Times of London that Italy paid off the Taliban to keep the peace in parts of Afghanistan patrolled by Italian troops.

Edited October 20, 2009 by American Woman

[Army Guy]

What nobody is demanding an inquiry or some sorts....I wonder what that Ottawa law professor is doing now....

This whole thing is so sad it's rather funny in a sick way, only because some Canadians will actually believe this shit.......paying off the bad guys...not to attack...i Guess nobody told the bad guys.....

[Topaz]

I think there's alway a possibility that any nation that fight there could be but I did find the followingarticle who is. http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afghani...taliban-funding

[Oleg Bach]

If giving a million bucks to some tribal chief saved ONE Canadian life so be it.