China, Enemy to Muslim World

[GostHacked]

Indeed. Pictures of beheaded children at the hands of Islamic terrorists shows a level of love towards 'our freedoms' that we in the West just can't understand.

Christians in Indonesia (a muslim country by majority), and other countries in Asia ... I fail how that proves your point about hating us in the west for our freedoms.

From your google search I clicked a few of the images of children beheadings and did not find a western child among the pics or links.

We had a beheading in Canada here a year or so back. On a greyhound bus of all places. There was also that lady in NYC that was beheaded by her hubby. So beheadings are happening all over the place. All those pictures do is kind of insight rage in most of us. Rage that if not checked, can become dangerous.

Question: much like I alluded to with eyeball...if you were dropped off in the one of the 'areas of eternal love towards all human-kind' that the Muslim 'radicals' set-up...what would be your chances of escaping with YOUR head? Could you talk your way out of it explaining how you're really their friend? Or would they just ignore your pleas and start a-sawing with yon rusty knife?

You can't reason with terrorists no matter what religion they wear. And it is always the extremists on any side that are going to partake in this kind of behaviour. Obviously it does not represent all of Islam, which to most thinks it does. And since 1 in 4 of us on this planet seem to be muslim.... we should be seeing this kind of thing alot more now .. no?

[DogOnPorch]

They were either 'Christian' or 'going to school'. A child is a child...especially a girl wanting education who gets murdered for her just going to school. I can't recall the last time I beheaded a child for ANY reason...can you? Well these 'radical' fellows can...

There was also that lady in NYC that was beheaded by her hubby.

Do you mean the owner of Mosaic TV? Muzzammil Hassan is a Muslim. Guess what? He is/was known as a moderate.

We had a beheading in Canada here a year or so back. On a greyhound bus of all places.

An insane Chinese immigrant...you might want to find another example of 'us Canadians' cutting off heads.

You can't reason with terrorists no matter what religion they wear.

Really? Have you tried? No of course not...just another opinion. Stop apologizing for Muslim terrorists.

And it is always the extremists on any side that are going to partake in this kind of behaviour.

I don't recall the IRA beheading folks...and the FLQ were a bunch of fruit-cups whoes ideas of "proper terrorism" were laughable.

Obviously it does not represent all of Islam, which to most thinks it does. And since 1 in 4 of us on this planet seem to be muslim.... we should be seeing this kind of thing alot more now .. no?

But what about Mohammed? Is he not part of mainstream Islam? He beheaded many. Jesus avoided such activity if we trust the Bible's accounts. But then Mohammed diddled preschool-aged children...so I'm not sure about any of Islam's value systems. Why do folks...even 'moderate' ones follow this medieval freak? Don't worry...you can't answer that.

Edited October 13, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

eyeball: Are you a Catholic by any chance?

Nope. I don't believe in imaginary things. Let's see...I've almost collected all the religions. Can you call me a Muslim in one thread and perhaps a Buddhist in another then I can claim to have been called a member of all the planet's major religions. Thanks.

[Guest American Woman]

It sounds like you are, knowingly or unknowingly, spreading misinformation. Is it because of 'capitalism' or is it because of this:

"Libi, a Libyan national and al-Qaeda suspected third in command, railed against China's treatment of the Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority group in the country's far west who chafe under Beijing's rule. Uighurs complain of government discrimination, from being frozen out of jobs to having their language and religion suppressed. Those grievances and frustrations seemed to boil over this summer, when ethnic riots city of Urumqi left nearly 200 people, mostly Han Chinese, and were answered by a ruthless state crackdown."

The above is from your own link, so I'm going to assume that you are spreading misinformation knowingly.

And I'm going to assume that you're incapable of carrying on civil discussions and making intelligent "assumptions," so I'm not going to waste any more of my time with your ignorant response.

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE: The direct result of my being abused was that I became a f-king raging, alcoholic lunatic.

Theoren Fleury

Abuse makes monsters out of cultures too, its no different than with people.

Not everyone who is abused becomes a "monster." Furthermore, not everyone who becomes a "monster" was abused.

But I have to point out again the al Qeada and the Taliban are "monsters" to other Muslims, too, for not following their extremist Islamic views/'rules.' So what's the reason for that? -- Did those other Muslims "abuse" them?

[Guest American Woman]

China's react is just like what it reacted the event that America released the Guantanamo uyghuristan terrorists, who were cought in an Al Qeada training campe in Afghanistan, and kindly managed to find a safer place keeping them from China's "persecution"---I mean, making a statement, then totally forgeting such trifle things and keeping eyes on its own business.

This is the first time al Qeada has threatened to attack China's interests overseas, so I would think it's a threat not to be taken too lightly.

[Guest American Woman]

Given that China has been targeted by various internal Muslim Nationalist terrorist campaigns long before the events of 9/11, what Al Qeada has to say is largely irrelevant.

The difference is, this threat wasn't "internal;" it was a threat to attack Chinese interests outside of China.

I read a news report a couple of days back that stated one in four people on the planet are Muslim, some 1.7 Billion people. And contrary to popular western beliefs, the majority of them are not Arab, Persian or Turks, but rather Asiatic. Canada's Muslim population is estimated to be around 700,000 people, which to many of the mouth breathers on this board is 700,000 too many.

I'm not sure what point you're making with that observation; what it has to do with al Qaeda's threat to attack Chinese interests overseas.

As for how China will react is moot, since China has already signed anti-terrorism pacts with Muslim Nations such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tajikistan among others and have conducted joint raids on terrorist training camps along with joint counter terrorism training exercises with these Nations. If anything, Al Qeada is reacting to China's stepped up anti-terrorism measures and not the other way around.

According to the article: "....China's profile in the Muslim world still grows with its economic ambitions and interests. This expanded global reach [...] has put Chinese citizens and enterprises in harm's way." So it sounds as if as China's expanding business interests is a major part of this threat.

[GostHacked]

You can't reason with terrorists no matter what religion they wear.

and your reply was ...

Really? Have you tried? No of course not...just another opinion. Stop apologizing for Muslim terrorists.

/facepalm. It's hard to beleive you would even make a statement like this. Based on your stance on this topic. Read that again Dog. I said you can't reason with extremists/terrorists no matter what religion they wear. This is in no way apologizing for their actions. Have you ever tried to reason with an extremist? I know you won't even want to try either. Shoot first, questions later.

But what about Mohammed? Is he not part of mainstream Islam? He beheaded many. Jesus avoided such activity if we trust the Bible's accounts. But then Mohammed diddled preschool-aged children...so I'm not sure about any of Islam's value systems. Why do folks...even 'moderate' ones follow this medieval freak? Don't worry...you can't answer that.

The problem to me is religion in the first place. If we are not fighting over imaginary gods, then we have nothing to fight for.

There are lots of cultures that embraced decapitation as a form of punishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapitation

[eyeball]

Nope. I don't believe in imaginary things. Let's see...I've almost collected all the religions. Can you call me a Muslim in one thread and perhaps a Buddhist in another then I can claim to have been called a member of all the planet's major religions. Thanks.

I only asked you, but there you go again spinning nothing into something. In any case I know what you mean - I've been called everything from a Nazi, a communist, a terrorist, on thru to the worst of all, a liberal.

[naomiglover]

And I'm going to assume that you're incapable of carrying on civil discussions and making intelligent "assumptions," so I'm not going to waste any more of my time with your ignorant response.

The information was in your own link. Some handle being wrong and being called on it differently than you.

[DogOnPorch]

and your reply was ...

/facepalm. It's hard to beleive you would even make a statement like this. Based on your stance on this topic. Read that again Dog. I said you can't reason with extremists/terrorists no matter what religion they wear. This is in no way apologizing for their actions. Have you ever tried to reason with an extremist? I know you won't even want to try either. Shoot first, questions later.

How are the Provos doing these days? Do you know who they are? They were reasoned with. So your relativistic statement re: no extremists can be reasoned with is false. But this is a common tactic used...'hey, we're just as bad as the Islamic nut-jobs'. Would you attack and/or kill a Muslim for wandering into your neighborhood? Conversely: can I interest you in a stroll through the tribal areas of Pakistan without US Army escort?

The problem to me is religion in the first place. If we are not fighting over imaginary gods, then we have nothing to fight for.

I don't think Canada fights to promote Christianity or any other religion in the wilds of Afghanistan.

There are lots of cultures that embraced decapitation as a form of punishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapitation

No doubt. But your claim is that beheading/violence isn't part of mainstream Islam. Mohammed is CERTAINLY part of ALL forms of Islam...and he liked beheading folks amongst other perversions...war...looting...raping...child molesting. I really have a problem understanding why one would even give such a fellow the time of day. But, then, folks amaze me by supporting the Palestinian cause...born out of anti-Semitism and National Socialism. So anything is possible in this upside down world where the terrorists are the good guys and Canadian soldiers are part of some evil empire right out of Star Wars.

[DogOnPorch]

I only asked you, but there you go again spinning nothing into something. In any case I know what you mean - I've been called everything from a Nazi, a communist, a terrorist, on thru to the worst of all, a liberal.

I'm an existentialist. Plain and simple.

[Guest American Woman]

The information was in your own link. Some handle being wrong and being called on it differently than you.

Who says I was wrong?

I've also posted other quotes from my link, so I'm quite aware of what it says. Now, having pointed that out, unless you have some inside information, all any of us are doing, and have been doing since 9-11, is stating our opinions as to "why" the threats are being made. I'll try to spell it out for you. You post that Canada is at risk because you are in Afghanistan. I think you are wrong and that you would be at risk whether you're in Afghanistan or not. However, it would be idiotic of me to accuse you of "knowingly posting false information" because I don't see it the way you do.

Edited October 14, 2009 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

Who says I was wrong?

I've also posted other quotes from my link, so I'm quite aware of what it says. Now, having pointed that out, unless you have some inside information, all any of us are doing, and have been doing since 9-11, is stating our opinions as to "why" the threats are being made. I'll try to spell it out for you. You post that Canada is at risk because you are in Afghanistan. I think you are wrong and that you would be at risk whether you're in Afghanistan or not. However, it would be idiotic of me to accuse you of "knowingly posting false information" because I don't see it the way you do.

Naiomi is a classic Chamberlainist. If we don't bother Germany, Germany won't bother us. I have a scrap of paper with Hitler's John Hancock to prove it.

[naomiglover]

Who says I was wrong?

I've also posted other quotes from my link, so I'm quite aware of what it says. Now, having pointed that out, unless you have some inside information, all any of us are doing, and have been doing since 9-11, is stating our opinions as to "why" the threats are being made. I'll try to spell it out for you. You post that Canada is at risk because you are in Afghanistan. I think you are wrong and that you would be at risk whether you're in Afghanistan or not. However, it would be idiotic of me to accuse you of "knowingly posting false information" because I don't see it the way you do.

This is what you said in your first post:

Seems as China becomes more 'capitalistic,' it's being 'noticed' more by al Qaeda.

You're simply wrong for making that statement. The Al Quaeda threat is not due to capitalism. It's due to the treatment of Muslims in China.

[Oleg Bach]

This is what you said in your first post:

Seems as China becomes more 'capitalistic,' it's being 'noticed' more by al Qaeda.

You're simply wrong for making that statement. The Al Quaeda threat is not due to capitalism. It's due to the treatment of Muslims in China.

The high arch just like in old soviet Russia live like gods on earth..what makes you think that communism is a benevolent and human notion - capitialism is not - nor are the commies nice guys..nor are those wacked out Muslim atheist who behave like wanna be gangsters and stir up the emotions of zealots to do the dirty work in gathering wealth and power for a few. The use and abuse of human emotion to manipultate the3 masses is old news...LOOK at Obama..elected on emotion...very manipulative..and a disgrace to the concept of logic and general reality....but we go for it because we can not control ourselves. So THEY control us.

[Guest American Woman]

This is what you said in your first post:

Seems as China becomes more 'capitalistic,' it's being 'noticed' more by al Qaeda.

You're simply wrong for making that statement. The Al Quaeda threat is not due to capitalism. It's due to the treatment of Muslims in China.

Yes, I said that. Because of what the article said, I see it that way.

China's profile in the Muslim world still grows with its economic ambitions and interests. This expanded global reach [...] has put Chinese citizens and enterprises in harm's way.

If you don't see it that way, fine. However, I do. And unless you have some inside information that says otherwise, all we have is our opinion as to why al Qaeda is now threatening China's interests overseas.

Furthermore, the way one usually goes about "discussing" such things would be to ask why I feel the way I do and wait for a reply. Instead, you simply accused me of "knowingly posting false information," which doesn't say much for your ability to have a civil discussion nor does it say much for your ability to respect differing opinions.

Now you may not agree that this has anything to do with China being threatened overseas for the first time, but I do; and the 'why are we/they being targeted' is only a matter of opinion for those of us outside of al Qaeda.

Edited October 14, 2009 by American Woman

[naomiglover]

Yes, I said that. Because of what the article said, I see it that way.

China's profile in the Muslim world still grows with its economic ambitions and interests. This expanded global reach [...] has put Chinese citizens and enterprises in harm's way.

If you don't see it that way, fine. However, I do. And unless you have some inside information that says otherwise, all we have is our opinion as to why al Qaeda is now threatening China's interests overseas.

How about the fact that they have stated it's due to the treatment of Muslims in China?

How about the fact that they have not mentioned it's because China is practicing capitalism?

How about the fact that Finland, Ireland and many other capitalist countries have not been threatened and are not under threat, despite being capitalist?

That's enough for me and any person who is interested in reality and not in creating a fearful and hateful world to conclude that your opinion has misinformation in it.

[Guest American Woman]

How about the fact that they have stated it's due to the treatment of Muslims in China?

How about the fact that they also mentioned what I posted? I already explained to you that it is my opinion, based on what I read. If you disagree, that is your opinion.

How about the fact that Finland, Ireland and many other capitalist countries have not been threatened and are not under threat, despite being capitalist?

How do you know that they aren't under threat? Because they haven't been "singled out?" Mentioned by name? Because you say so? I happen to see a jihad against the West as including all nations in the West. I understand that you feel otherwise, but it's only your opinion.

That's enough for me and any person who is interested in reality and not in creating a fearful and hateful world to conclude that your opinion has misinformation in it.

Go ahead and conclude that my opinion has misinformation in it. I think YOUR opinion regarding Canada being safe if you pull out of Afghanistan has misinformation in it. But again, I'd be an idiot if I accused you of "knowingly posting false information" because I disagree with your opinion.

And for the record, your conclusion that my opinion means I'm not interested in reality and not creating a fearful and hateful world is as ignorant as your first accusation. As I said, you seem unable to engage in a civilized discussion and you seem to fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

[eyeball]

Naiomi is a classic Chamberlainist. If we don't bother Germany, Germany won't bother us. I have a scrap of paper with Hitler's John Hancock to prove it.

For an existentialist you sure have an uncanny ability to come up with an explaination for everyone else's existance.

[naomiglover]

How about the fact that they also mentioned what I posted? I already explained to you that it is my opinion, based on what I read. If you disagree, that is your opinion.

How do you know that they aren't under threat? Because they haven't been "singled out?" Mentioned by name? Because you say so? I happen to see a jihad against the West as including all nations in the West. I understand that you feel otherwise, but it's only your opinion.

Go ahead and conclude that my opinion has misinformation in it. I think YOUR opinion regarding Canada being safe if you pull out of Afghanistan has misinformation in it. But again, I'd be an idiot if I accused you of "knowingly posting false information" because I disagree with your opinion.

And for the record, your conclusion that my opinion means I'm not interested in reality and not creating a fearful and hateful world is as ignorant as your first accusation. As I said, you seem unable to engage in a civilized discussion and you seem to fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

So you are basing your 'opinion' on a sentence that does not mention capitalism and you have elected to ignore what the article talks about, which is China's treatment of the Muslim minority and Al Quaeda's reason for threatening China.

Your opinion is contrary to facts and even contrary to the article you have posted.

Edited October 14, 2009 by naomiglover

[Guest American Woman]

So you are basing your 'opinion' on a sentence that does not mention capitalism

Why does the article have to specifically say "capitalism" in order for you to accept that my opinion is what it is? I know what capitalism is and I know what the article said and I know what bin Laden/et al has said about capitalism in the past. So putting it all together, my opinion is what it is.

and you have elected to ignore what the article talks about, which is China's treatment of the Muslim minority and Al Quaeda's reason for threatening China.

I've ignored nothing. I think, however, that the reason al Qaeda has now, for the first time, threatened to attack targets outside of China is because "China's profile in the Muslim world still grows with its economic ambitions and interests. This expanded global reach [...] has put Chinese citizens and enterprises in harm's way." And I think that ties into capitalism. You don't have to agree with me, and furthermore, I don't care if you agree with me or not. But it's my opinion and I have as much a right to my opinion as you do to yours. As I've said repeatedly now, everyone outside of al Qaeda is speculating as to the 'why's' of its actions. Everyone has their opinions.

Your opinion is contrary to facts and even contrary to the article you have posted.

That's your opinion. Nothing more.

[DogOnPorch]

For an existentialist you sure have an uncanny ability to come up with an explaination for everyone else's existance.

No need to be uncanny when they put it in print.

Edited October 15, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Perhaps that made more sense before you edited it.

[xul]

This is the first time al Qeada has threatened to attack China's interests overseas, so I would think it's a threat not to be taken too lightly.

Exactly the real attacks have been carrying out for years. Besides those indigenous separatist mobs, there are also some cases that Chinese workers and engineers were attacked in Pakistan by Taliban after Musharraf ordered an aggression against indigenous Taliban. Some Chinese media quoting Pakistanian source said Abdullah Mehsud, the leader of the attacks, was also a former prisoner of Guantanamo and was released by American in 2004 for he showed "no intention attacking American".(It looks like he didn't lie, but... )

Abdullah Mehsud

In any case, I don't think overreacting AQ's threats or attacks is a wise strategy or policy. Obviously, AQ's strategy is using every excuses they can make to convince Muslims around the world that there is a worldwide conspiracy ploted by American and Israeli against Islam so AQ can turn them to AQ supporters. If China overreacts these events, china will fall into their scheme.

Edited October 15, 2009 by xul