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But I made my appointment to get my H1N1 this year. Sole reason being - I'm pregnant. Otherwise there is noway I would get one.

Congrats!

It does seem this flu had a very heavy impact on pregnant women last year.

As far as the last time you had the shot, I wouldn't be surprised if you did get the flu. Around three years ago people had better immune results from flu mist versus the flu shot.

I'll probably be getting the shot when more of the priority people have had it. I hate shots. I'd rather be hit with a hockey stick.

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Thanks J! :)

Maybe I'm jaded with that last experience, but like I said, until now I never really believed in flu shots. This is my first pregnancy though and I feel the maternal instinct kicking in. My decision to get the shot is more for my baby than it is for me.

ETA: and good luck with yours... I know, needles and me are not a good combination either.

Edited by BC_chick
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Segnosaur

I can agree with you on some of your points. In the end I saw my doctor to get better information. I am considering it now.

Well, I'm glad to see you've started to rethink you're postion. You did a good thing talking to your doctor. (He probably knows a little more than me, and probably is less abrasive.)

I'd advise anyone to talk to their doctor, although doing a little reading beforehand may be a good idea. I have to admit, not every doctor shares the same opinions... some may be insistent on the flu shot, some may not care, and some may actually oppose it. (Doesn't necessarily mean that your doctor is a 'quack'... just means that an MD may not be up on the latest information. And, admittedly, there is a lot of contradictory information out there.)

Read a little, get some information in your mind before hand, and be prepared to challenge the doctor with informed questions.

And in the end it might be just dumb luck. But most of my family has been like this. So my whole family has had dumb luck. Or we have some type of natural immunity to it. But whatever it is.... I'll take it.

Hey, there is a very good chance that you do have a strong natural immunity. (That is part of having 'good luck', in my opinion). Just hate to see someone depend on it.

Edited to add:

Come to think of it though... you did mention that you had experienced colds before. Colds are caused by a different form of virus, but if you've experienced colds regularly, perhaps your immune system isn't quite as strong as you'd expect.

But how do you know that those chemicals in the cigarette are actually toxic or carcinogenic? Remember, the oldest woman in the world smoked for decades of her life, and she never came down with lung cancer!

Look on the side of a pack of smokes:

Toxic Emissions /unit

Tar, Nicotine, Carbon Monoxide, Formaldehyde, Hydrogen Cyanide, and Benzene.

Ah, but that's just what the government wants you to think. Its just a way for them to install panic so that that they can justify raising cigarette taxes by claiming its for 'health'. We know its all a government scam because someone lived to be over 100 and smoked regularly. If cigarettes had 'toxic chemicals' and 'carcinogens', then nobody would live so long if they smoked regularly.

(Hey, not that I actually believe that... I'm just trying to do the same thing that people do when they reject vaccination... combine some sort of 'personal' story, and throw in some sort of 'conspiricy'.)

Each year, a staggering 440,000 people die in the US from tobacco use.

That is in the US alone, H1N1 has nothing on cigs. Nothing.

Hey, I agree.. smoking is the bigger health risk... but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take efforts to reduce health risks in other areas.

(Of course, If I wanted to pretend further that cigarettes were safe, I could suggest that people die because of other pollutants in our environment. After all, many people die of lung cancer who have never touched a cigarette.)

The only reason why I brought up the issue of smoking was to illustrate the problem of 'anecdotal evidence'... what may have been the case for one person in the past may not always indicate what will happen in the future.

Actually, the issue with the spanish flu wasn't how easily it spread... the issue was how severely it affected the individuals that were infected.

Unsanitary conditions don't help the cause, and was a major factor in it's spreading, no matter how severe.

Actually, the primary method of transmission of the flu is by inhalation of virus particles. There are even some opinions in the medical community that hand washing may not make a difference. (Note: Please don't take that as an excuse not to wash your hands... even if it doesn't prevent H1N1 infections, there are other nasty things out there that it can stop.)

http://www.cmaj.ca/earlyreleases/1oct09_co...ndwashing.shtml

...current evidence shows that influenza is transmitted primarily at a short range of one to two metres by inhaling particles from an infected person (“inhalation transmission”)... receptors for the virus are located farther back in the respiratory tract than those for rhinoviruses (colds). It is more difficult for viral particles to reach the pharynx, trachea, bronchi and alveoli — where influenza receptors are found — from a contaminated hand touched to the mouth or nose. The particles can more readily reach the sites if they are inhaled

Edited by segnosaur
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Well, I'm glad to see you've started to rethink you're postion. You did a good thing talking to your doctor. (He probably knows a little more than me, and probably is less abrasive.)

It's because of your posts, that I wanted the right information. I was not getting the right information from you.

I'd advise anyone to talk to their doctor, although doing a little reading beforehand may be a good idea. I have to admit, not every doctor shares the same opinions... some may be insistent on the flu shot, some may not care, and some may actually oppose it. (Doesn't necessarily mean that your doctor is a 'quack'... just means that an MD may not be up on the latest information. And, admittedly, there is a lot of contradictory information out there.)

You could have said that at the start. That would have been the best action to take.

Read a little, get some information in your mind before hand, and be prepared to challenge the doctor with informed questions.

I have, I did, and that is why I saw my doctor. And she hates the way the media is creating a panic/frenzy to get the shot. See how many people are lining up to get it?? And shortages are going to happen, people will get pissed.

Reason is needed, and most of us here are not thinking with reason at all.

Hey, there is a very good chance that you do have a strong natural immunity. (That is part of having 'good luck', in my opinion). Just hate to see someone depend on it.

LOL, that is like saying I am good at computers but I should not depend on it for my living. Like I said .. i'll take it either way.

Edited to add:

Come to think of it though... you did mention that you had experienced colds before. Colds are caused by a different form of virus, but if you've experienced colds regularly, perhaps your immune system isn't quite as strong as you'd expect.

I get a cold maybe once a year. Maybe. And there is no cure for the common cold, we can't eliminate it, however people are not dying in droves from the common cold.

Look on the side of a pack of smokes:

Toxic Emissions /unit

Tar, Nicotine, Carbon Monoxide, Formaldehyde, Hydrogen Cyanide, and Benzene.

Ah, but that's just what the government wants you to think. Its just a way for them to install panic so that that they can justify raising cigarette taxes by claiming its for 'health'. We know its all a government scam because someone lived to be over 100 and smoked regularly. If cigarettes had 'toxic chemicals' and 'carcinogens', then nobody would live so long if they smoked regularly.

(Hey, not that I actually believe that... I'm just trying to do the same thing that people do when they reject vaccination... combine some sort of 'personal' story, and throw in some sort of 'conspiricy'.)

I threw in no conspiracy at all.

Hey, I agree.. smoking is the bigger health risk... but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take efforts to reduce health risks in other areas.

But yet you had to be a jerk about it. Sorry, abrasive.

(Of course, If I wanted to pretend further that cigarettes were safe, I could suggest that people die because of other pollutants in our environment. After all, many people die of lung cancer who have never touched a cigarette.)

And you should look at other environmental factors.

Actually, the primary method of transmission of the flu is by inhalation of virus particles. There are even some opinions in the medical community that hand washing may not make a difference. (Note: Please don't take that as an excuse not to wash your hands... even if it doesn't prevent H1N1 infections, there are other nasty things out there that it can stop.)

And you should look at other environmental factors.

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OP, I only had a flu shot once, and that year I had the worst cold (or flu?) I've ever had in my life. Granted, I was working with children that winter, but whatever it was, I said never again.

But I made my appointment to get my H1N1 this year. Sole reason being - I'm pregnant. Otherwise there is noway I would get one.

Best wishes to you! If your child inherits your intelligence, she will be truly blessed.

When is BC_Chicklet due?

-k

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As I've mentioned on this forum before... a couple of decades ago, there were dozens of companies producing flu vaccines. Now, there are only a couple. The drug companies just realized that there wasn't that much to be made off of influenza vaccine.

If there was so much money to be made, why are there so few companies making the vaccine? Vaccionations happen world-wide, so its a pretty big market.

Here's a very interesting video.

Hmmm.... a friend of mine, here in Canada, went for a flu shot. She was at the Doctor's office on an an unrelated matter and asked if they had the flu shot available. The doctor said, "Yes, we do. It costs thirty dollars.", and she got a flu shot. My friend then said, "Wow I am surprised you have the H1N1 flu shot available!" the Doctor said, "Oh! That wasn't the H1N1 flu shot that was just the regular seasonal flu shot."

Let's see. $30/shot times say 12 million shots. 42% of Canadians opted to get the flu shot in 2008.

That's 360 million dollars. That isn't nothing. Ohhh...I forgot healthcare in Canada is free.

Actually I just had a thought that perhaps the backs of insurance companies in America are trying to be broken. This is a heavy burden for them, I'm sure.

Edited by Pliny
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....Let's see. $30/shot times say 12 million shots. 42% of Canadians opted to get the flu shot in 2008.

That's 360 million dollars. That isn't nothing. Ohhh...I forgot healthcare in Canada is free....

Seasonal flu shots in my village are $25 for injection, $30 for nasal spray.

I'd rather spend the money on a new valve cover gasket.

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Seasonal flu shots in my village are $25 for injection, $30 for nasal spray.

I'd rather spend the money on a new valve cover gasket.

Up here I understand they are about 80 bucks a prick...They are lining up like terrified rats, all waiting for the gov and big pharma to save their sorry asses from impending immediate suffocating death. :lol: Our media is shameless when it comes to sensationalism..The 13 year old boy that perished in his fathers arms was like a little mini 9 11 for our parasitic blood sucking media bureaucrats...The poor father was on the radio withing hours of the death of his son weeping and pleading like some old lady - and what pissed me off was the fact that media called him...shameless!

I could swear that it all looks very Orwellian to me - people lined up to be sterilized - somthing is not right...they finally admit that they are pumping mercury into human beings but are calling it something else - NOW the gov and pharma can not keep up to the demand to be protected from the piggy plauge- in time we will see that we got use again like cattle of the field... BC is right - better to spend the money on something else rather than bail out big buisness via a paniced public..a new valve cover might be more useful than standing like a terrified rat lined up waiting for the Jesus Juice to save your soul.. :lol: I say f**kem - I will determine when I want to leave this world not the state and it's diseased greed ridden institutions..who sure like the power of panic.

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Here's a very interesting video.

Hmmm... not really.

That appears to be an interview done by a Dr. Mercola. Mercola is a well-known quack, better known for selling cheesy 'natural health' products than for actually doing real research and other medical stuff.

The web-site for Skeptic magazine points out some of his mistakes:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23

Hmmm.... a friend of mine, here in Canada, went for a flu shot. She was at the Doctor's office on an an unrelated matter and asked if they had the flu shot available. The doctor said, "Yes, we do. It costs thirty dollars.", and she got a flu shot. My friend then said, "Wow I am surprised you have the H1N1 flu shot available!" the Doctor said, "Oh! That wasn't the H1N1 flu shot that was just the regular seasonal flu shot."

First of all, I'm rather suprised that the flu shot would actually cost anything. I believe the shots here are free. (Maybe it varies by province.)

Secondly, if this story is true, while she may not have gotten the H1N1 vaccine, people should get both vaccinations (H1N1 and seasonal flu). It appears that it was nothing more than a break-down in communication (something both her and her doctor are guilty of). While the doctor might have mentioned which vaccine he was giving, there has been enough publicity that your friend should have known to ask about which vaccine she was going to get.

Let's see. $30/shot times say 12 million shots. 42% of Canadians opted to get the flu shot in 2008.That's 360 million dollars. That isn't nothing. Ohhh...I forgot healthcare in Canada is free.

While the flu shot does 'cost money' up front, that cost must be weighed against the economic impact that actually coming down with the flu would cause... Things like hospital visits from those who actually catch the flu, lost productivity due to being sick, etc. It costs thousands of dollars a day if someone ends up in the ICU due to the flu (something that does happen). That money could have paid for a lot of flu shots...

Most studies that look at the economics of it show that actually getting the flu shot saves money in the long run...For example:

from: http://nejm.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/333/14/889

we recruited working adults from 18 to 64 years of age...and randomly assigned them to receive either influenza vaccine or placebo injections.

...

During the follow-up period... those who received the vaccine reported 25 percent fewer episodes of upper respiratory illness than those who received the placebo, 43 percent fewer days of sick leave from work due to upper respiratory illness, and 44 percent fewer visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses. The cost savings were estimated to be $46.85 per person vaccinated.

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Seasonal flu shots in my village are $25 for injection, $30 for nasal spray.

I'd rather spend the money on a new valve cover gasket.

You got a better chance with the shot. Nasal sprays don't get all of the vaccine into you.

Pliney

Let's see. $30/shot times say 12 million shots. 42% of Canadians opted to get the flu shot in 2008.

That's 360 million dollars. That isn't nothing. Ohhh...I forgot healthcare in Canada is free.

It was never free, we just never see the cost because our taxes are used for health care. Never think it is free.

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You got a better chance with the shot. Nasal sprays don't get all of the vaccine into you.

Pliney

It was never free, we just never see the cost because our taxes are used for health care. Never think it is free.

Nothing is for free. IF in time they find out that the whole piggy plauge is a ruse or a huge mistake..I wonder if the tax payer will get their money back - This is a rushed vacine - Only 200 people tested in Belgium...they really don't know if the stuff is useless or not - and they don't care - someone is going to walk away with a billion buck..I would love to know who that man is - no not the corporate company name - but the individual who is the ultimate boss - do we have a history on this person -? Is he or she credible or do they have a history of corporate crimminality - I don't trust anyone of them after our finacial fire storm we just went through and are still going though.

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they finally admit that they are pumping mercury into human beings but are calling it something else

The 'mercury' that they are accused of pumping into humans is a preservative called Thimerosal.

First of all, you make it sound like its been some 'big secret'. The fact that Thimerosal has been an additive in some vaccines has been known right from the start.

Secondly, there has been absolutely no scientific evidence that the thimerosal causes any health risks. Vaccines contain only tiny amounts, it is metabolized into ethylmercury in the body (rather than methylmercury, which is the actual dangerous compound), and amounts are excreted from the body typically in a month or less.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8013003313.html

Lastly, thierosal is not used in all vaccines. It is used in the influenza vaccines used in Canada, but its not used in the vaccines in all countries, nor is it used in many vaccinations for other diseases.

I say f**kem - I will determine when I want to leave this world not the state and it's diseased greed ridden institutions..who sure like the power of panic.

You know, here's what I find ironic...

On one hand, the anti-vaccination people are accusing governments, drug companies, and everyone else of causing widespread panic unnecessarily.

Yet they are doing pretty much the same thing when they make unproven accusations about things like the dangers of mercury being used in vaccines.

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You got a better chance with the shot. Nasal sprays don't get all of the vaccine into you.

Actually, I believe the nasal spray has been proven to be just as effective.

Remember, if you are going to get infected, one of the most common pathways is through inhaling the virus through the nose. This is where the effects of the nasal spray are most pronounced.

Of course, even if there is a difference in the effectiveness in either the spray or the injection, its going to be exceptionally small.

]

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Actually, I believe the nasal spray has been proven to be just as effective.

Remember, if you are going to get infected, one of the most common pathways is through inhaling the virus through the nose. This is where the effects of the nasal spray are most pronounced.

Of course, even if there is a difference in the effectiveness in either the spray or the injection, its going to be exceptionally small.

]

In Canada you only have the option of the shot. Nasal sprays will not be used in Canada because they are not as effective of getting all the vaccine into you. This is why you exhale smoke after taking a puff on a cigarrette, not all of it gets absorbed into your body. And this is a pretty obvious reason why the nasal sprays are not as effective. And the difference is quite large to have the Canadian government say no to the spray.

http://news.ca.msn.com/health/article.aspx...mentid=22359629

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.... BC is right - better to spend the money on something else rather than bail out big buisness via a paniced public..a new valve cover might be more useful than standing like a terrified rat lined up waiting for the Jesus Juice to save your soul.. :lol: I say f**kem - I will determine when I want to leave this world not the state and it's diseased greed ridden institutions..who sure like the power of panic.

80 bucks? That's mighty pricey.

I figure that a new valve cover gasket is the better way to go because I have a much better chance of dying from an engine fire caused by the oil leak than from swine/bird/donkey/chipmunk flu. The guy at the auto parts store was real nice and even opened up the box to confirm the right gasket and seals.....no mention of swine flu. That's how I want to go...wrenching on my iron horse.

Oleg, I'm just sitting back and watching the show in my rocking chair. Just when the circus acts slow down I'll be damned if something else doesn't pop up to fill in the badwidth.

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Hmmm.... a friend of mine, here in Canada, went for a flu shot. She was at the Doctor's office on an an unrelated matter and asked if they had the flu shot available. The doctor said, "Yes, we do. It costs thirty dollars.", and she got a flu shot. My friend then said, "Wow I am surprised you have the H1N1 flu shot available!" the Doctor said, "Oh! That wasn't the H1N1 flu shot that was just the regular seasonal flu shot."

You're from Surrey, you should know that is bullshit. Either that or the doctor is ripping people off. London Drugs charges $18 for a seasonal flu shot and I have never paid a doctor more than $20.

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You're from Surrey, you should know that is bullshit. Either that or the doctor is ripping people off. London Drugs charges $18 for a seasonal flu shot and I have never paid a doctor more than $20.

I have never paid a cent for a flu shot. I usually get them at the Pharma plus and sometimes at my doctor's..which ever is most convenient.

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That appears to be an interview done by a Dr. Mercola. Mercola is a well-known quack, better known for selling cheesy 'natural health' products than for actually doing real research and other medical stuff.

Dr. Mercola is the interviewer. The very credible Dr. Fischer is the interviewee. The interviewer could have been a reporter or anyone. What's important is the origin of the information.

I know Dr. Mercola is a bit of a rogue and a thorn in the side of the medical establishment but then again I am of the opinion that allopathic medicine is elitist and exclusive and not whole. The establishment is very controlling.

First of all, I'm rather suprised that the flu shot would actually cost anything. I believe the shots here are free. (Maybe it varies by province.)

Check it out in your province and let me know.

Secondly, if this story is true, while she may not have gotten the H1N1 vaccine, people should get both vaccinations (H1N1 and seasonal flu). It appears that it was nothing more than a break-down in communication (something both her and her doctor are guilty of). While the doctor might have mentioned which vaccine he was giving, there has been enough publicity that your friend should have known to ask about which vaccine she was going to get.

It was a simple breakdown in communication. Assumptions were made. But I only mentioned it because it cost her $30. And just to add a little irony to it she works for an agency that provides flu shots to it's employees. Once again she assumed the flu shot was in high demand, difficult to get and it was worth it to her pay the $30 to get what she thought was the H1N1 flu shot.

While the flu shot does 'cost money' up front, that cost must be weighed against the economic impact that actually coming down with the flu would cause... Things like hospital visits from those who actually catch the flu, lost productivity due to being sick, etc. It costs thousands of dollars a day if someone ends up in the ICU due to the flu (something that does happen). That money could have paid for a lot of flu shots...

Most studies that look at the economics of it show that actually getting the flu shot saves money in the long run...For example:

from: http://nejm.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/333/14/889

we recruited working adults from 18 to 64 years of age...and randomly assigned them to receive either influenza vaccine or placebo injections.

...

During the follow-up period... those who received the vaccine reported 25 percent fewer episodes of upper respiratory illness than those who received the placebo, 43 percent fewer days of sick leave from work due to upper respiratory illness, and 44 percent fewer visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses. The cost savings were estimated to be $46.85 per person vaccinated.

Too bad the real information on the flu wasn't available. Upper respiratory illnesses include colds, bronchitis and pneumonia among other things. This study showed, if anything, that the shot only made a 25% difference. 75% of those that received the shot received no benefit.

It's a rather incomplete study and from an economic point of view the $46.85/person that was saved probably only includes the delivery costs. The cost to business and the person economically was not factored in. There is time spent making the appointment and going to the Doctor's office, taking time off work, and with the H1N1 there are long lineups to wait in.

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The 'mercury' that they are accused of pumping into humans is a preservative called Thimerosal.

First of all, you make it sound like its been some 'big secret'. The fact that Thimerosal has been an additive in some vaccines has been known right from the start.

I have heard some advocates of the the flu shot state that they haven't used mercury in vaccines since the seventies. There was one on the Bill Good show last week that said that exact thing. I can't remember his name offhand. But then this week I find out they are still using mercury.

People have a natural backoff of mercury because of the big scare of it being in seafood. Adding a little more in your flu shot doesn't help assuage the concern.

You know, here's what I find ironic...

On one hand, the anti-vaccination people are accusing governments, drug companies, and everyone else of causing widespread panic unnecessarily.

Yet they are doing pretty much the same thing when they make unproven accusations about things like the dangers of mercury being used in vaccines.

It isn't quite the same thing. The authority of the government and the medical establishment in being proponents of the vaccines outweighs individual decision making. It is only when sufficient information challenges the authority that people will look for themselves and make their own choices. People need to make informed decisions, and unchallenged authoritarian dictates preclude that.

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You're from Surrey, you should know that is bullshit. Either that or the doctor is ripping people off. London Drugs charges $18 for a seasonal flu shot and I have never paid a doctor more than $20.

My friend is not gong to bullshit me about this. She wasn't concerned about the $30. Have you got yours yet this year? The price may have gone up.

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I have never paid a cent for a flu shot. I usually get them at the Pharma plus and sometimes at my doctor's..which ever is most convenient.

Whether you paid up front or through your taxes you paid for your flu shot. Do you live in Ontario.

I suppose someone should google this and settle it.

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Dr. Mercola is the interviewer. The very credible Dr. Fischer is the interviewee. The interviewer could have been a reporter or anyone. What's important is the origin of the information.

Dr. Fischer is far from "credible". She is one of these individuals who was pushing the "vaccines cause autism" link, even though the science has demonstrated absolutely no relationship between them.

Here's what the skeptic dictionary has to say...

http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia44.html

I know Dr. Mercola is a bit of a rogue and a thorn in the side of the medical establishment but then again I am of the opinion that allopathic medicine is elitist and exclusive and not whole. The establishment is very controlling.

Once again... Dr. Mercola is a quack. The only way that he is a 'thorn' in the side of the medical establishment is because some people may listen to what he says and make bad medical decisions because of it.

Too bad the real information on the flu wasn't available. Upper respiratory illnesses include colds, bronchitis and pneumonia among other things. This study showed, if anything, that the shot only made a 25% difference. 75% of those that received the shot received no benefit.

First of all, I know that 'upper respiratory illnesses' include colds, etc. People in the study (including those who got the real vaccine instead of the placebo) will also come down with strains of the flu that weren't included in the vaccine.

The shot did not make a '25% difference'. It likely made a 100% difference against the flu itself, but made no difference against other diseases. However, the fact that there was such a measurable difference in total illnesses/total time off work/etc. means that the flu shot was having beneficial effects.

It's a rather incomplete study and from an economic point of view the $46.85/person that was saved probably only includes the delivery costs. The cost to business and the person economically was not factored in. There is time spent making the appointment and going to the Doctor's office, taking time off work, and with the H1N1 there are long lineups to wait in.

And the cost of actually coming down with the flu may not have included the cost of cab fair to the doctor's office/hospital (possibly for mutiple visits), the cost of cough medicine/aspirine. Plus, because it was a relatively small survey, there were no people that ended in hospital. But, we know that any strain of inflenza can put someone in the ICU for an extended period of time.

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