Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Considering that many in Canada are increasingly concerned with the lack of a common Canadian identity, and that a, if not the, major source of that identity comes through education, it would seem to make sense that a Federal Ministry of Education to replace provincial ones would make sense. A major problem I could see with this though is that it would lead to a whole new Kulturkampf. Just as Bismark and the Pope had realised that he who controlled educaiton controlled the future evolution of Prussian culture, so Queebcers will be just as aware of the same, and so would never agree to this. One possible solution could be to have three Ministries of education, one for Quebec, one for Nunavut, and one federal one. But then I can also see some Canadians feeling that it would not be fair for Quebec and Nunavut to have a say in Parliament over education in the rest of Canada while the rest of Canada has no say in education in Quebec and Nunavut. Honestly, though I could see advantages to this, I can also see many problems with it so it woudl probablybe preferable, in spite of everything, to just leave it a sa provincial matter. But still, some here might have other ideas on it that I haven't thought of so I'm throwing it out there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I can't imagine an education system coagulated at the federal level. Cripes! Nothing would ever get done! The feds provide educational resources and a connection to international education scene (standards, assessments, etc.) and that's valuable. http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/subject...ion/index.shtml http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/AboutParl_Edu....asp?Language=E http://www.international.gc.ca/studies-etu...x.aspx?lang=eng The Council of Ministers of Education also provides some national oversight: Newest Publications Key Factors to Support Literacy Success in School-Aged Populations 2009-08-06 Fact Sheet: Transitions to the Labour Market 2009-06-17 Factors Affecting the Use of Student Financial Assistance Programs by Aboriginal Youth 2009-05-20 Research Project: An Examination of Barriers to Pursuing Postsecondary Education and Potential Solutions 2009-05-15 Fact Sheet: Pan-Canadian Education Indicators Program, Household Spending on Education 2009-05-01 Upcoming Events * ` 96th CMEC Meeting 2009-09-01 * UNESCO Ministerial Round Table 2009-10-09 But administering education at the federal level? NO THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted August 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 You're probably right, and I thought the same. Though in theory it might appear desirable in promoting a common culture, it would be politically explosive, leading to such deadlock nothing would ever get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 This very question is the meat on the bone of bureaucracy. We have triplication of efforts from the federal to the provincial and finally to the municipal level. Federal government should be all about setting national standards or baselines of minimum levels. The provinces should administer these things and the cities or counties should undertake the operational delivery of services. If all forms of programs and services were designed this way we could cut billions from the three levels of government budgets and reduce the numbers of bureaucrats by the thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 This very question is the meat on the bone of bureaucracy. We have triplication of efforts from the federal to the provincial and finally to the municipal level. Federal government should be all about setting national standards or baselines of minimum levels. The provinces should administer these things and the cities or counties should undertake the operational delivery of services. If all forms of programs and services were designed this way we could cut billions from the three levels of government budgets and reduce the numbers of bureaucrats by the thousands. They seem to think it works better with a division of responsibilities, and I think I agree: Getting two levels of government to work together on anything is like trying to nail jello to the wall. I think it's better with each having their own jurisdictions (and taxation powers) and staying out of each other's way. There's no real duplication of function, I don't think, though there are areas where they have to coordinate due to their different responsibilities. You'd have to give me examples. The CMEC (see above) provides monitoring of standards, national and international. It is run by province/territory Ministers of Education but I expect it is funded by the feds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Federal government should be all about setting national standards or baselines of minimum levels. The provinces should administer these things and the cities or counties should undertake the operational delivery of services.I disagree fundamentally.In the question of education, for example, the federal government should have no say whatsoever, even in establishing standards. Simply put, the federal government should not be responsible for setting standards in areas of provincial jurisdiction. ----- If we were to have a federal ministry of Education, what would it teach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 The Provinces are responsible for delivering Education and Healthcare services. The beauty of that is that we have 10 juristictions that obviously have common fundamentals that have evolved over the years - but also can apply unique attempts to make each delivery mechanism better. Other provinces can copy the things that work - call it the evolution of Best Practices. That's why even with Healthcare, people shouldn't be afraid of permitting some Private involvement - let some Provinces try it and if it works - great. Canada is like a giant Test Lab - and we should embrace the opportunity that comes with it. A little improvement here, a little one there...other Provinces copy what works...and we're all the better for it. Having some sort of top-down Federal involvement in would only stifle the ability of the Provinces to be creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Simply put, the federal government should not be responsible for setting standards in areas of provincial jurisdiction. Even when all the provinces agree that there should be standards...The Canada Health Act for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 The Provinces are responsible for delivering Education and Healthcare services. The beauty of that is that we have 10 juristictions that obviously have common fundamentals that have evolved over the years - but also can apply unique attempts to make each delivery mechanism better. Other provinces can copy the things that work - call it the evolution of Best Practices.This alone is one good reason.And also, local conditions require local solutions. Schools in PEI are not like schools in Toronto. But most important of all, we Canadians have different views of our history. The only way that we can continue to be Canadian is to recognize this difference. To quote Trudeau, Canada may have two official languages but it has no official culture. Even when all the provinces agree that there should be standards...The Canada Health Act for example?A terrible (Liberal) example. The federal government bribed the provincial governments with taxpayer money.While the argument against federal involvement in education is stronger, IMHO, the federal government should have nothing to do with health care either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 A terrible (Liberal) example. What an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 What an argument.Is it appropriate for the federal government to intervene in provincial jurisdiction using taxpayer money?IMV, provinces are best placed to deal with State involvement with health care decisions. Smallc, Canada is a federal system for several very good reasons. If you are a Canadian patriot, you should be a strong federalist, respectful of provincial sovereignty. It is the only way to ensure Canada's viability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 I am respectful of provincial sovereignty...especially when provinces put their differences aside for the greater good. That seems to have no meaning to you. As a Canadian patriot though, I find it helpful to avoid being provincial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 But most important of all, we Canadians have different views of our history. The only way that we can continue to be Canadian is to recognize this difference. To quote Trudeau, Canada may have two official languages but it has no official culture. First of all, one of the problems which I think the OP is trying to get at, is that Canadians hae NO view of their history. Or to be more precise, English Canadians know nothing, or very little about their history. French Canadians know only the resentments they've been taught, ie, they came here, established paradise, and then les maudit anglais came and ruined everything. You might find that beautiful, but others would disagree. One of the problems, at least in English Canada, is that the people who work for the education system and have a lot of letters after their names are busybodies, do-gooders who want schools to be instruments of social change. To that end, they have stuffed in all sorts of lessons which are important to them, about understanding and respect and tolerance and diversity and pacifism. Since lengthening the day wasn't an option, they took out things they considered unimportant. Their favorite whipping boy was history. It's full of dead white men anyway, most of them doing warlike things without much regard to respect for others. Besides, it's not inclusive enough to all the visible minorities who just got off the boat last year. The result is that Canadians largely have no sense of shared history to help bring them together. Quebecers at least have their sense of shared resentment so they can whine together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Right, all that Canadian history I took throughout grades 5, 7, and 11 were fake. The problem in our school was that there is never enough time to get through the entire history. You usually run out of time not long after Confederation. Trust me, in most provinces today you le4arn Canadian history. The only provinces who don't teach mandatory Canadian History are Newfoundland and Alberta. Edited August 30, 2009 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Right, all that Canadian history I took throughout grades 5, 7, and 11 were fake. The problem in our school was that there is never enough time to get through the entire history. You usually run out of time not long after Confederation. Trust me, in most provinces today you le4arn Canadian history.The only provinces who don't teach mandatory Canadian History are Newfoundland and Alberta. Right. 42% of Canadians can't name our first prime minister, and you think history is being taught well. Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 I don't know how it was being taught in the past. It's being taught now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remiel Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Right. 42% of Canadians can't name our first prime minister, and you think history is being taught well. Okay. Are there breakdowns by age and region for this statistic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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