Good Integration

[lictor616]

Has anyone ever asked WHY we HAVE to have diversity? What is so damn important that a bank or a grocery store or a government building has a racial formula? (Add two parts white, two black, one hispanic and 3/4 muslim...)

At 6' 1" (Sorry, no metric. I speak English.), I am too short to play in the NBA. By your reasoning, I should be chosen over a 7' 1" black player with amazing skills just because there are already 10 or 11 other blacks on the team. Makes no difference that I can't play worth a damn (or jump). Does it matter to you that black players dominate the sport because THEY CAN PLAY? If there were equal numbers of white and black players already on the team and they needed one more, who should they pick? The white guy? The black guy? Should they advertise for an asian guy to be diverse?

This is simply political correctness running away with common sense.

Its so strange because the multiculturalists maintain that diversity is a strength (some of them go so far as saying racial diversity is our GREATEST strength) which means presumably that certain races give us ADVANTAGES, in other words that different races provide us with strength we could not have if we were all white...

and then from this the multiculturalists tell us that race is meaningless and that we,re all precisely to the tenth decimal EQUAL in every aspect...

And then they mobilize huge amounts of money and curtail our civil liberties to solve the problems racial diversity creates... (they tell us racism is the greatest evil... yet racism can only happen in DIVERSE societies... racism could not happen in a racially homogeneous country)

I mean call it self contradictory, I call it masochistic insanity...

[Remiel]

At 6' 1" (Sorry, no metric. I speak English.), I am too short to play in the NBA. By your reasoning, I should be chosen over a 7' 1" black player with amazing skills just because there are already 10 or 11 other blacks on the team. Makes no difference that I can't play worth a damn (or jump). Does it matter to you that black players dominate the sport because THEY CAN PLAY? If there were equal numbers of white and black players already on the team and they needed one more, who should they pick? The white guy? The black guy? Should they advertise for an asian guy to be diverse?

Your analogy misses the core question. It is not, " Why can a 6'1" European basketball player with no skills not get on the basketball team? " , it is, " Why are the 7'1" Europeans with strength, speed, agility and reflexes not playing basketball? "

[Hydraboss]

Your analogy misses the core question. It is not, " Why can a 6'1" European basketball player with no skills not get on the basketball team? " , it is, " Why are the 7'1" Europeans with strength, speed, agility and reflexes not playing basketball? "

Because they're white and can't jump of course.

So you believe it's okay to keep additional black players from making the team because a white player (of equal skill) is applying for the position? How can you assert that this is not racism against the black players? They are not being chosen because of their color.

[Remiel]

Because they're white and can't jump of course.

So you believe it's okay to keep additional black players from making the team because a white player (of equal skill) is applying for the position? How can you assert that this is not racism against the black players? They are not being chosen because of their color.

Hydraboss, I think it rather comical that what you have just said, that given a choice between adding an African basketball player to an all African basketball team and a European basketball player to an all African basketball team, given equal skill and playing ability, that you are being racist against Africans if you appoint the European, could be interpreted to mean the opposite of what you are trying to say I believe.

If they were absolutely equal in every way, I probably would hire the European, because I will bet you that more Europeans will become fans of my team, with almost no corresponding fall in African fans. Now, you may say that I am now assuming that the European fans are racist, but all I am assuming is that they are human.

(Edit: If anyone has or has seen them before, I would be interested to see actual statistics regarding correlation of sports players ethnicity and sports fans ethnicity, if they exist.)

Edited August 27, 2009 by Remiel

[lictor616]

Your analogy misses the core question. It is not, " Why can a 6'1" European basketball player with no skills not get on the basketball team? " , it is, " Why are the 7'1" Europeans with strength, speed, agility and reflexes not playing basketball? "

the reality is that the NBA is a completely egalitarian institution, they care FAR more about your talent for the game then anything else...

But BECAUSE the lung capacity and bodytypes of West Africans and sub saharan black people are BETTER SUITED to the game, we see a highly disproportionate rate of them getting in. The Dinaric people (from Serbia and other close regions) are also very tall (i'm 6 foot and couldn't find anything medium in Belgrade while shopping there) and so they also get in disproportionately.. and again the difference is mainly RACIAL.

Who would dream to think that mexicans are kept out of the NBA because of racism and bigotry?

WE ARE NOT EQUAL... and that's a good thing... so liberals: please stop trying to act as if we are!

Whenever you treat people equally: you see how different we really are... and this is natural and good.

Edited August 27, 2009 by lictor616

[Oleg Bach]

A good intergration is like an ancient marriage - "Flesh of my flesh - bone of my bone forsaking all others" Including your parents who are now second to your mate - including your old family home that is second to your new nation..good integration is commitment and relinquishing all loyalty to the place of origin - If you can't do that - then you are a detriment to the nation...a liablity...and a security risk in some instances.

[Hydraboss]

Hydraboss, I think it rather comical that what you have just said, that given a choice between adding an African basketball player to an all African basketball team and a European basketball player to an all African basketball team, given equal skill and playing ability, that you are being racist against Africans if you appoint the European, could be interpreted to mean the opposite of what you are trying to say I believe.

If they were absolutely equal in every way, I probably would hire the European, because I will bet you that more Europeans will become fans of my team, with almost no corresponding fall in African fans. Now, you may say that I am now assuming that the European fans are racist, but all I am assuming is that they are human.

(Edit: If anyone has or has seen them before, I would be interested to see actual statistics regarding correlation of sports players ethnicity and sports fans ethnicity, if they exist.)

If you own the team and want to hire the white guy for business reasons, I'm all for it. At least you have reasons that can be quantified. No problem. Now, what if you wanted to hire the black guy and I said no?

[Remiel]

If you own the team and want to hire the white guy for business reasons, I'm all for it. At least you have reasons that can be quantified. No problem. Now, what if you wanted to hire the black guy and I said no?

I do not quite understand under which circumstances you are suggesting you are saying no. As a random person, a legal counsel, or the team owner?

But besides that, what makes you think that wanting to have the police be more representative, or the judiciary, or the legislature, or lawyers, or doctors, is not based on similar considerations to the basketball team owner? Maybe not as quantifiable, but still identifiably better for business?

[Hydraboss]

I do not quite understand under which circumstances you are suggesting you are saying no. As a random person, a legal counsel, or the team owner?

But besides that, what makes you think that wanting to have the police be more representative, or the judiciary, or the legislature, or lawyers, or doctors, is not based on similar considerations to the basketball team owner? Maybe not as quantifiable, but still identifiably better for business?

For clarity, let's pretend I'm the Human Rights Circus and I tell you that you can't hire the white player. You've made a business case for the reason, but my ruling is "no". Still think it's fair?

If the police force, etc can make the business case (in whatever method) with quantifiable results, then let them eat their cake. If they can't make the case (eg. hiring the 5', 200lb East Indian woman instead of the 6' 1" 200lb man that's in great shape because of affirmative action) then the PC bullshit needs to go away.

[tango]

What I find humourous ... and pathetic at the same time ... is that people like lictor with race-obsession will argue for pages and pages using ONLY hypothetical 'IF ... maybe' situations.

I haven't NOT YET SEEN ANY EVIDENCE from him or anyone else that their paranoid delusions of anti-white 'racism' (by whites) have ever actually occurred to ANYONE in the real world.

So to me, it is just so much horse-patooty taking up bandwidth, "sound and FURY signifying nothing".

[Bonam]

I haven't NOT YET SEEN ANY EVIDENCE from him or anyone else that their paranoid delusions of anti-white 'racism' (by whites) have ever actually occurred to ANYONE in the real world.

That's an ignorant statement. Just as ignorant as saying there's absolutely no evidence of any other type of racism ever having happened.

[Hydraboss]

What I find humourous ... and pathetic at the same time ... is that people like lictor with race-obsession will argue for pages and pages using ONLY hypothetical 'IF ... maybe' situations.

I haven't NOT YET SEEN ANY EVIDENCE from him or anyone else that their paranoid delusions of anti-white 'racism' (by whites) have ever actually occurred to ANYONE in the real world.

So to me, it is just so much horse-patooty taking up bandwidth, "sound and FURY signifying nothing".

Well, you want proof? Not going to find it.

However, I will relay my "bullshit and unprovable" story. Quick version: I'm 17 in high school. RCMP recruiters come to the "pick a career" day. We have a really good talk and they check what they want to check. It's all good. They want me to sign up immediately after grad (pending marks which were not a problem at all). I decide I want to wait a year or two and work (gotta have beer money).

A year and a half later, I go in to see them again cause I'm ready to get a gun. I'm told that Regina isn't taking any more people in. I said "What? I thought they're desperate for new members?". A really nice recruiting officer has a little talk with me and lets me know that there are now "quotas" and I can get in in a heartbeat if I just check "Sex: Other" on the application, but to remember that this is on the permanent personnel record. I tell him "No f*cking chance of that happening!" All he says is "I understand completely".

Affirmative action my ass.

[Remiel]

For clarity, let's pretend I'm the Human Rights Circus and I tell you that you can't hire the white player. You've made a business case for the reason, but my ruling is "no". Still think it's fair?

... I am trying to think of how to reply in a way that makes your example make sense, but under those conditions whatever logic they would be applying sounds more like "non-existant" rather than "questionable", of which our topic usually falls into the latter.

[bush_cheney2004]

... I can get in in a heartbeat if I just check "Sex: Other" on the application, but to remember that this is on the permanent personnel record. I tell him "No f*cking chance of that happening!" All he says is "I understand completely".

As in "hermaphrodite" or "transgender"? Damn.....wish we had a third box to check!

[Remiel]

A really nice recruiting officer has a little talk with me and lets me know that there are now "quotas" and I can get in in a heartbeat if I just check "Sex: Other" on the application, but to remember that this is on the permanent personnel record. I tell him "No f*cking chance of that happening!" All he says is "I understand completely".

Affirmative action my ass.

I will say that quotas are probably about the worst way you could manage affirmative action. Any such system that has no room for finesse is just... poorly designed.

[Hydraboss]

As in "hermaphrodite" or "transgender"? Damn.....wish we had a third box to check!

Sexual orientation. Sorry for not being clear. Remember, this was back when they could still ask that.

If they were to put in the box for "Sex:", they'd need another page of options these days.

[Machjo]

Interesting.

A lot of people speak about it, I'm curious to have your thoughts on that.

I would say that the immigrant has to:

Speak English (French if he's in Quebec in my opinion).

Aren't those immigrant languages too, from Europe specifically?

little about Canada's culture (food, radio shows, t.v., history, politics, economy, geography)

How much do you know of pre-European-discovery North American history?

certain time feel Canadian (tough this is not the most important one).

Many First Nations people are still working on that.

the law, if you don't respect it you could pay the consequences, whoever you are and wherever you're from.

unless you're the government reneging ontreaties.

--------

D you think that to be Canadian you need to be White and Christian. I'm curious on that one.[/quote

Didn't they try that in the residential schools?

[Bonam]

Interesting.

Aren't those immigrant languages too, from Europe specifically?

How much do you know of pre-European-discovery North American history?

Many First Nations people are still working on that.

unless you're the government reneging ontreaties.

--------

Didn't they try that in the residential schools?

This is not the thread for aboriginal activism.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Bonam

[tango]

QUOTE (tango @ Aug 27 2009, 04:03 PM) *

What I find humourous ... and pathetic at the same time ... is that people like lictor with race-obsession will argue for pages and pages using ONLY hypothetical 'IF ... maybe' situations.

I haven't NOT YET SEEN ANY EVIDENCE from him or anyone else that their paranoid delusions of anti-white 'racism' (by whites) have ever actually occurred to ANYONE in the real world.

So to me, it is just so much horse-patooty taking up bandwidth, "sound and FURY signifying nothing". biggrin.gif

Well, you want proof? Not going to find it.

I asked for evidence, real cases of 'discrimination' against white males by white males.

However, I will relay my "bullshit and unprovable" story. Quick version: I'm 17 in high school. RCMP recruiters come to the "pick a career" day. We have a really good talk and they check what they want to check. It's all good. They want me to sign up immediately after grad (pending marks which were not a problem at all). I decide I want to wait a year or two and work (gotta have beer money).

A year and a half later, I go in to see them again cause I'm ready to get a gun. I'm told that Regina isn't taking any more people in. I said "What? I thought they're desperate for new members?". A really nice recruiting officer has a little talk with me and lets me know that there are now "quotas" and I can get in in a heartbeat if I just check "Sex: Other" on the application, but to remember that this is on the permanent personnel record. I tell him "No f*cking chance of that happening!" All he says is "I understand completely".

Affirmative action my ass.

What is 'Sex: Other'?

I thought the issue was quotas for women/'minorities'?

Is this a true story?

If so, that's what I'm interested in hearing.

But I'm sick of lictor biatching about things that 'might' happen.

I would say that they already recruited everyone they needed by the time you applied.

Sh*t happens.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I asked for evidence, real cases of 'discrimination' against white males by white males.

What is 'Sex: Other'?

I thought the issue was quotas for women/'minorities'?

Is this a true story?

If so, that's what I'm interested in hearing.

But I'm sick of lictor biatching about things that 'might' happen.

I would say that they already recruited everyone they needed by the time you applied.

Sh*t happens.

He's talking about them having sexual orientation quotas. something they no longer do because they're not allowed to ask sexual orientation.

[Hydraboss]

I asked for evidence, real cases of 'discrimination' against white males by white males.

What is 'Sex: Other'?

I meant to write "Sexual Orientation".

I thought the issue was quotas for women/'minorities'?

No, they had quotas for gays, etc as well.

Is this a true story?

Yes.

If so, that's what I'm interested in hearing.

And you are.

I would say that they already recruited everyone they needed by the time you applied.

Sh*t happens.

Actually, they were still actively recruiting. Just not for straight, caucasion males. Shit happens indeed.

[lictor616]

What I find humourous ... and pathetic at the same time ... is that people like lictor with race-obsession will argue for pages and pages using ONLY hypothetical 'IF ... maybe' situations.

I haven't NOT YET SEEN ANY EVIDENCE from him or anyone else that their paranoid delusions of anti-white 'racism' (by whites) have ever actually occurred to ANYONE in the real world.

So to me, it is just so much horse-patooty taking up bandwidth, "sound and FURY signifying nothing".

I lifted example after example (for instnace government public works projects sending out applications with: WHITE HETEROSEXUAL MALES NEED NOT APPLY ON THE FREAKING APPLICATION LETTERHEAD, as well newspaper articles citing that certain firefighter units are barring white from admission), I also cited the canadian charter of "rights" and freedoms which with its 18.1 clause in effect tells us that non whites are entitled to more job opportunities and privileges based on their minority status. I listed black on white hate crimes (such as the 17 on 1 brutal beating of a 15 year old white girl by BLACK SAVAGES with no denunciantions of hate crime), I've also listed interracial crime statistics ....

and much much much more.... but you (like the biased hypocrite that you are) just SAY that there isn't any evidence despite all of this... because its the only way you can win an argument ... (despite the fact that you NEVER EVER account for your statements or cite ANY data.. .and yet the onus of "proof" is on YOU)...

so nice try... but no

[tango]

I lifted example after example (for instnace government public works projects sending out applications with: WHITE HETEROSEXUAL MALES NEED NOT APPLY ON THE FREAKING APPLICATION LETTERHEAD, as well newspaper articles citing that certain firefighter units are barring white from admission),

Oh. I must have missed that.

Got links?

I also cited the canadian charter of "rights" and freedoms which with its 18.1 clause in effect tells us that non whites are entitled to more job opportunities and privileges based on their minority status.

15.2 actually.

But that isn't evidence of a real problem occurring.

I listed black on white hate crimes (such as the 17 on 1 brutal beating of a 15 year old white girl by BLACK SAVAGES with no denunciantions of hate crime), I've also listed interracial crime statistics ....

That story was bogus, and it isn't relevant to this topic, only to your 'race obsession', which is your only topic. Any made up excuse to say 'black savages' is good enough for you, eh lictor?

and much much much more.... but you (like the biased hypocrite that you are) just SAY that there isn't any evidence despite all of this... because its the only way you can win an argument ... (despite the fact that you NEVER EVER account for your statements or cite ANY data.. .and yet the onus of "proof" is on YOU)...

so nice try... but no

Well, the first two made some sense if true and if in Canada, since this thread is about integration of immigrants in Canada.

[tango]

Sexual orientation. Sorry for not being clear. Remember, this was back when they could still ask that.

I must have missed that 'back when'.

But what does that have to do with immigration and integration?

Edited August 28, 2009 by tango

[Hydraboss]

I must have missed that 'back when'.

But what does that have to do with immigration and integration?

The question had been asked about racism "against whites by whites".