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Omar Khdar


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<_<

He might be tired of this forum - Usually BC is very informative and generous - hate to see him disappear - first thing you have to get straight is that stero-typical anti-americanism - is non-productive - If you want to learn abut the American mindset on the up and grass roots level - Make friends with BC - he will give nothing to stupid people who choose to hate what they do not know or those that are not willing to learn. Do we here in Canada think that every last human being in the states is a minion...part of the great statan? :lol: Be generous to BC and he will give you the same - be rude and stupid and stero-typical and if he gets impatient - He may leave this forum perminently - and that would be a huge loss of wealth and friendship _ If you care about Canada - you had better care about our neighbours...if you do not - then you do not have the best interests of Canada in mind...Just some wise advice....BC - is the best friend you could have.. I stand behind him because he is a good man.

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....He may leave this forum perminently - and that would be a huge loss of wealth and friendship _ If you care about Canada - you had better care about our neighbours...if you do not - then you do not have the best interests of Canada in mind...Just some wise advice....BC - is the best friend you could have.. I stand behind him because he is a good man.

Thanks for the props Oleg...you are a good man...but I may leave this forum for a completely different reason....you won't give us any "white" space....paragraphs make it easier to read your posts....please give us white space for our tired old eyes. Some of these folks really like "white" anyway! :lol:

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Thanks for the props Oleg...you are a good man...but I may leave this forum for a completely different reason....you won't give us any "white" space....paragraphs make it easier to read your posts....please give us white space for our tired old eyes. Some of these folks really like "white" anyway! :lol:

Usually I do but I get lazy with the presentation.

If you leave I believe it is because - certain controls have been put into effect - also - there are a few here that are great writers- and an influx of kiddies - as you know this place comes out of the University of Lethbridge Alberata - as with most western institutions they are slowly being taken over by mindless professors that instill mindless leftism....

The reason being with professional professors who profess - it that they are institutionalized - and have no real street of life experience - they go to kindergarten - high school - university - and they stay their like aging hippies with grey pony tails who are locked into a time warp from a time when leftism was fashionable - like benny for instance - How can a person in his right mind stick relentlessly to the communist ideal when all communists states become failed states ALWAYS.

You would think they would broaden their scope and horizon ---they call us old and old school - and that we are from another generation -----I like you have never belonged to any generation - we are timeless - The young are the curmudgeons it seems. "I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now" - My birthday is tommorow - and 59 - I am entering my 60th year - and I am young...so I have to leave soon to walk over to another club..where everyone is 30 years younger - they do not look at me as old - and there will be a complimentary drink waiting for me there - I was never institutionalized - never was I part of a generation - never was I educated - and never will I be old ......

Yes - BC - I can not look you in the eye on this thing - but I know one thing for sure - If we met we would be friends as if we were in our childhood -----cos' were' cool - and have spirit...and a sense of immortality - so ancient and so eternaly young - I am happy today - My love to you and the family - as for Charely Anthony - who ever that is - governments come and go - rich is not for ever nor is poor - as I said to him - over throwing governments and improving them take no effort - cos' I can sing - my one gift - If you hear me on radio as a guest caller they take me seriously...which means that I am free...as you are - some are not and never will be...amen.

FREEDOOM TAKES GUTS - FAITH AND BRAVERY - FEW HAVE THE RIGHT STUFF...AND TO GO IT ALONE IF NECCESARY!

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....My birthday is tommorow - and 59 - I am entering my 60th year - and I am young...so I have to leave soon to walk over to another club..where everyone is 30 years younger - they do not look at me as old - and there will be a complimentary drink waiting for me there - I was never institutionalized - never was I part of a generation - never was I educated - and never will I be old ......

Happy Birthday Oleg...you have survived the journey and received your reward....wisdom!

Youth is wasted on the young anyway.

I will buy you a virtual beer:

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|,,Y,,,,,,,:’”"”‘/\’:”"”"”‘:,,,|

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|,BIRTHDAY,,,,\ \,,,,,,,,,,,|

|,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,`-`-,,,,,,,,|

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********************

(___________________)

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You must admit that alot of "citizens" of Canada carry citizenship for convenice only, prime example was the recent up heaval in lebanon, where over 5000 Candain citizens needed to be evac, on our dime....yet in media interviews alot had admitted not to have been to Canada in over 10 years or more....that evac was payed for on our dime...tax payers of Canada, something these people had not done for quit some time....payed taxes....not that paying taxes makes you a citizen, but those that are contributing to this country, and are citizens and paying taxes, should have a say in how it is run....

It takes more than somebody saying something to toss Canadian citizenship.

They were Canadian citizens. The government did its duty to its citizens by evacuating them. Canadian citizen-ship doesn't come and go. What sort of rules would you like put in place? Shall Canadian Consuls conduct little tribunals before giving aid to those with Canadian citizenship to determine wether the supplicant is 'truly' a Canadian? What has been the claimants 'contribution' to Canada?

Or, perhaps, as you suggest, such inquiries should be left to "those that are contributing to this country" . Shall we draw up a list of such citizens? Had them posted at gangways to dispute folks with Canadian citizenship? "Your passport means nothing. Who scored the winning goal in the final game of the 2005 Stanley cup? Thats right! Ruslan Fedotenko. you're in."

We Canadians already get to decide these things and these things are decided through the tried and true methods of good ol' politics of wich the exchange we are having is part. And these things are not done on a ad hoc basis - or shouldn't be.

The same reason the Khadr family returned to Canada, Afghan medical system sucks frankly, and while Omars brother was indeed born in toronto he had spent less than 2 years in country....this is the same brother wounded, and put into a wheel chair, during a fire fight that killed his father, ....Nobody will determine or can prove that this young boy did or did not take part in this fire fight....but he was granted full access to our countries medical system, once again on our dime...What other reasons could the Khadr family have by returning to Canada....it's not because they love Canada, infact they have already stated in the media they loath our values and way of life... So one could assume that it is a citenship of convinence....done for the sake of thier son...wounded in the war on terror....

As I would had I have been in thier boots. There is nothing wrong here. The kid needs medical attention he gets medical attention. We cannot refuse such things just because we despise his parents...or even him for that matter. He's a Canadian citizen - He gets the candy.

I can understand that many folks want to see them punished - somehow, somewhen. But if we can't find them guilty of anything in a court of law why should we demand our government ignore due process and punish them anyways. Thats what this is all about. In a nation with Security Certificates and Terrorism laws We can't even charge them with anything. No charges-

No trials - No verdicts - No punishment. Simple as that. And thats the way it should be.

There should be some set of rules which govern our citenship, more than exist today, written by Canadian for Canadians, to protect what for some of us hold near and dear....I don't the problem with the fact that if a state wants or has the ability to grant citienship it should also have rules governing that citenship, plus have the right to revoke it as they see fit...be that in our courts or in parliment....citenship is not a right...but a privilage...

Thus politics. Perhaps, with enough lobbying, a future government will enact such laws. I certainly hope not.

there needs to be a line in the sand now, Omar is not the only Canadian fighting on the wrong side in the war on terror and there will be more cases....

Sure there needs to be a line. I think there is already. Murder is illegal. No exception for Murdering an American. And no exception for doing so in another land. No exceptions for the murderers political/moral/religious beliefs. No exceptions for the organization the murderer belongs to. Conspiracy to kill others is illegal too. So is Attempted murder.

If all we hear about widdle Omar is true then we will have charges- trial - verdict.

There is no need for working ourselves into a knot about his or his Mom's citizenship.

How could it possibly be any other way and still claim we defend our values?

Edited by Peter F
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....How could it possibly be any other way and still claim we defend our values?

I can think of at least one example.....the deportation and loss of citizenship for alleged war criminals (e.g. WW2). Apparently there is a line that does not demand charges, trial, and verdict in Canada.

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If all we hear about widdle Omar is true then we will have charges- trial - verdict.

There is no need for working ourselves into a knot about his or his Mom's citizenship.

How could it possibly be any other way and still claim we defend our values?

Agreed. Defending Omar's right to due process is defending Canadian values.

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Guest American Woman
Agreed. Defending Omar's right to due process is defending Canadian values.

So giving and retaining citizenship to people who "support al Qeada" and " have fought as al Qaeda terrorists" is within "Canadian values?"

Edited by American Woman
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I will please many people with what I'M going to say.

I find that our government gives too easily the citizenship. I mean, if you were born here and you didn't even live one month in Canada, how can you be attached to Canada ?

You should live at least one year in Canada to have Canadian rights. Being born here shouldn't give you automatically the right to have a Canadian passport

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If this animal is brought back here..then this country is truely more hopeless than i thought and we have lost the war on terror!!

i have never seen so many terrorist supporters in my life.. no wonder the Americans are so disgusted with us!

did you not the memo... the re-branding is now complete - the "Bush war on terror" is over. Going forward, please use the correct terminology... "overseas contingency operation"!

it's still not clear whether the "overseas contingency operation" threat levels will be as open to manipulation as seen within the Bush admin... thanks Tom Ridge - that's gold... real gold!

Ridge says he was pressured to raise terror alert

yes... it's true... they did get the government they were scared into voting for :lol:

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OK, I found reference to what I recall reading ... the US soldier who testified at pre-trial that Omar could not have thrown the grenade. I know there are more thorough reports in the US media because that's where I read it ... will check later.

Doubt cast on Khadr's guilt

JANET HAMLIN/REUTERS/POOL

U.S. soldier's report claims teen was buried under rubble when grenade was thrown

Dec 13, 2008 04:30 AM

Michelle Shephard

National Security Reporter

GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA–A report provided by a U.S. soldier casts doubt once more on the Pentagon's assertion that Canadian captive Omar Khadr threw a grenade that killed an American soldier.

A military court was told for the first time yesterday that Khadr, then 15, was buried under rubble from a collapsed roof before he was captured, which would suggest he could not have thrown the grenade.

A witness identified as Soldier No. 2 was said to have accidentally stepped on Khadr because he did not see him under the rubble.

The soldier "thought he was standing on a `trap door' because the ground did not seem solid," stated a motion submitted by Khadr's defence lawyers.

He then "bent down to move the brush away to see what was beneath him and discovered that he was standing on a person; and that Mr. Khadr appeared to be `acting dead,'" the motion continued.

That new version of what happened in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002, conflicts with reports from other soldiers who said Khadr was sitting up and conscious when he was shot twice in the back.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/553305

Here's more ...

Note: Facts, testimony and excerpts contained in this summary can be verified in motions

contained in the Legal Filings section of this report.

On July 27, 2002, U.S. forces launched an air attack on a suspected Al Qaeda compound. F-18 fighter jets first fired more than 2,000 rounds on the compound. Two more F-18’s followed, each dropping “pinpoint,” 500-pound bombs. Four Apache helicopters were next, directing at least 150 rounds of cannon fire and 62 Hydra FFAR rockets into the compound.

The Apache helicopters were followed by a pair of A-10s who, according to reports, “expended all of their rockets and gun rounds.” (Estimated to be a minimum of 1,500 rounds of cannon fire and 12 Hydra rockets.)

Grenade launchers and hand thrown grenades were being utilized throughout the firefight. Officer reports indicate that as the firefight was winding down, “rounds and grenades were cooking off” in the compound.

Ground forces moved in to find (according to the original report) at least two survivors. According a U.S. Army officer’s statement, “I remember looking over my right shoulder and seeing (name redacted by government) just waste the guy who was still alive. He was shooting him.”

Another survivor was a 15 year old boy, Omar Khadr, found underneath a pile of rubble, his eyes bleeding from shrapnel, three bullet holes in his back, and a gaping chest wound where witnesses stated, “I could literally see his heart still beating.”

“PV2 had his sites right on him point blank. I was about to tap him on the back and tell him to kill him (Omar), but the SF guys stopped us and told us not to,” stated the same U.S. Army officer.

And so began the legal journey of Omar Khadr, a child actively indoctrinated by his father at the age of 10 and sent into battle at the age of 15. Now 22 years old, he has spent a third of his life in Guantanamo Bay; nearly blind, disabled, interrogated and tortured for six years.

more ... including a photo of Omar Khadr as he was found:

http://www.jlc.org/files/briefs/khadr/Summ...dated_10-24.pdf

The United States of America is the only country in the world to try a child for War Crimes in the modern history of war crimes tribunals.

I think I know why Obama wants to get Omar off his hands without a trial!

Edited by tango
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Agreed. Defending Omar's right to due process is defending Canadian values.

which clearly accounts for Harper's continued charade in taking the Court of Appeals ruling to the Supreme Court. He can't admit he's wrong... and is ready to go to the wall for the rights of Conservatives to tier-classify Canadians by colour/religion... Abousfian Abdelrazik, Suaad Hagi Mohamud, Abdihakim Mohamed... and Omar Kahdr. Shame!

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OK, I found reference to what I recall reading ... the US soldier who testified at pre-trial that Omar could not have thrown the grenade. I know there are more thorough reports in the US media because that's where I read it ... will check later.

Doubt cast on Khadr's guilt

JANET HAMLIN/REUTERS/POOL

U.S. soldier's report claims teen was buried under rubble when grenade was thrown

Dec 13, 2008 04:30 AM

Michelle Shephard

National Security Reporter

GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA–A report provided by a U.S. soldier casts doubt once more on the Pentagon's assertion that Canadian captive Omar Khadr threw a grenade that killed an American soldier.

A military court was told for the first time yesterday that Khadr, then 15, was buried under rubble from a collapsed roof before he was captured, which would suggest he could not have thrown the grenade.

A witness identified as Soldier No. 2 was said to have accidentally stepped on Khadr because he did not see him under the rubble.

The soldier "thought he was standing on a `trap door' because the ground did not seem solid," stated a motion submitted by Khadr's defence lawyers.

He then "bent down to move the brush away to see what was beneath him and discovered that he was standing on a person; and that Mr. Khadr appeared to be `acting dead,'" the motion continued.

That new version of what happened in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002, conflicts with reports from other soldiers who said Khadr was sitting up and conscious when he was shot twice in the back.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/553305

Here's more ...

Note: Facts, testimony and excerpts contained in this summary can be verified in motions

contained in the Legal Filings section of this report.

On July 27, 2002, U.S. forces launched an air attack on a suspected Al Qaeda compound. F-18 fighter jets first fired more than 2,000 rounds on the compound. Two more F-18’s followed, each dropping “pinpoint,” 500-pound bombs. Four Apache helicopters were next, directing at least 150 rounds of cannon fire and 62 Hydra FFAR rockets into the compound.

The Apache helicopters were followed by a pair of A-10s who, according to reports, “expended all of their rockets and gun rounds.” (Estimated to be a minimum of 1,500 rounds of cannon fire and 12 Hydra rockets.)

Grenade launchers and hand thrown grenades were being utilized throughout the firefight. Officer reports indicate that as the firefight was winding down, “rounds and grenades were cooking off” in the compound.

Ground forces moved in to find (according to the original report) at least two survivors. According a U.S. Army officer’s statement, “I remember looking over my right shoulder and seeing (name redacted by government) just waste the guy who was still alive. He was shooting him.”

Another survivor was a 15 year old boy, Omar Khadr, found underneath a pile of rubble, his eyes bleeding from shrapnel, three bullet holes in his back, and a gaping chest wound where witnesses stated, “I could literally see his heart still beating.”

“PV2 had his sites right on him point blank. I was about to tap him on the back and tell him to kill him (Omar), but the SF guys stopped us and told us not to,” stated the same U.S. Army officer.

And so began the legal journey of Omar Khadr, a child actively indoctrinated by his father at the age of 10 and sent into battle at the age of 15. Now 22 years old, he has spent a third of his life in Guantanamo Bay; nearly blind, disabled, interrogated and tortured for six years.

more ... including a photo of Omar Khadr as he was found:

http://www.jlc.org/files/briefs/khadr/Summ...dated_10-24.pdf

The United States of America is the only country in the world to try a child for War Crimes in the modern history of war crimes tribunals.

I think I know why Obama wants to get Omar off his hands without a trial!

Why do you even bother? The likes of Argus and Lictor don't believe, his name is Omar and he's Muslim, why the fuck would he be innocent ?

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I don't think so. If they are granted Canadian citizenship then Canadian citizens they are. They get to be charged in Canadian courts for thier crimes - just like every other Canadian citizen - and if found guilty they get to be incarcerated in Canadian prisons - just like every other Canadian citizen.

and until imprisonment, they get to travel where-ever they want for whatever reasons please them - just like every other Canadian citizen.

Removing thier citizenship means absolutely nothing.

It's funny how much travelling this family does given, please correct me if I'm wrong, none of them has ever held a job in Canada, and have been on welfare since the day they arrived.

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Means absolutely nothing to me. It seems entirely pointless to me.

You are suggesting we revoke thier citizenship for being unliked by you. Their citizenship is, or at least should be, as inviolable as mine. Once granted the state should not be using the permanent threat of removing it whenever the hell they feel like. There is no need for the state to be lording it over immigrants. Who knows what unscrupulous government functionaries will be able to do with the weapon of 'citizenship'.

Once they got it they keep it. And why is that a big deal?

They should never have gotten it to begin with. IMHO, immigrants should need at least 10 years residence before applying for citizenship, and refugees should not be able to apply except under special circumstances. Just because we let them stay here doesn't mean we have to let them become citizens when they would not otherwise qualify.

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This is funny. I live here and have collected welfare and healthcare, and secretly I hate your guts.

Yet, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! Except for immigrants - then its very wrong.

Yeah it is. The entire reason why we let them in to OUR country was because they were supposed to become good citizens and contributing members of society. They are neither. Nor have they ever tried to live up to their end of the bargain. I'd see nothing wrong with kicking their sorry asses back to whatever toilet spawned them.

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Wow ... that's terrible! So glad you survived both instances. Pretty scary to think about what could have happened.

edited to add: Thanks for the link --I've been reading up on it some more; I didn't realize you had such a problem there.

We didn't used to. It arrived with our greatly liberalized immigration reforms in the seventies.

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I can think of at least one example.....the deportation and loss of citizenship for alleged war criminals (e.g. WW2). Apparently there is a line that does not demand charges, trial, and verdict in Canada.

Certainly, that is true. But O.Khadr did not commit a 'war crime'. What is it the Americans call him? Unprivliged combatant' or some such. War crimes can only be committed by 'privleged' combatants. ie: those giving orders or those recieving and carrying out orders as part of the armed forces or auxiliaries , acting under the authority of a state.

Such people cannot get Canadian Citizenship, except through lies and other fraudulent means. Once that is revealed then Canadian citizenship is revoked since, if the truth had have been known, citizenship would have never been granted.

Since Omar Khadr was not acting as a member of the Armed Forces of a state (even in the remotest degree) he could not commit a war-crime.

Murder he can commit. Or Conspiracy. Or Attempted murder. Even multiple counts of. And he could have been shot on the spot at Khost- and in fact, was.

But, like me, Omar Khadr was born in this country and his parents were Canadian Citizens at the time of his birth.

Now perhaps, his parents lied and defrauded the government in order to get Citizenship. In which case thier citizenship can be legitimatly revoked. In which case I have no Idea what happens to thier childrens Canadian citizenship. But before that can happen it must be shown that they bullshitted the folks at citizenship and immigration

But if the parents didn't lie-cheat-and-steal back in, what? 1985 or something, to be granted Canadian Citizenship, then there is no revoking it no matter what kind of despicable persons they may become afterwards. And if they became arseholes afterwards, then Omar Khadrs citizenship stands - just like Paul Bernardo's - and just like mine.

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Guest American Woman
Now perhaps, his parents lied and defrauded the government in order to get Citizenship. In which case thier citizenship can be legitimatly revoked. In which case I have no Idea what happens to thier childrens Canadian citizenship. But before that can happen it must be shown that they bullshitted the folks at citizenship and immigration

So it seems as if what I've been saying all along is "perhaps" a possibility, and if it were the case, their citizenship could be legitimately revoked.

<_<

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