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Omar Khdar


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I'll tell you why they are holding him..It's because real rich cowardly people who hide in the shadows suggest to the politicals on what to do. There is no reason what so ever to hold this young fellow - Time served is time served - If he were guilty under anyother circumstances, he would be out by now...someone in Canada is pulling some strings to harass and punish the CANADIAN Muslim community - probably the same people that punish the blacks in Canada by ensuring they continue to kill each other - it's racism - When I heard a Canadian buisness man of some renown refere to Muslims and so-called terrorists as "toxic waste" - Then I knew what might be going on - If he were from Afghanistan - they would have sent him home five years ago..this is sheer spite!

Your comments are downright silly to say the least.Canada,perhaps more than any other non-Muslim country in the world,bend over backwards to accommodate Muslims in just about every way.

And your theory that some shadowy "people" make blacks kill themselves?Please..... <_<

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Guest American Woman
The debate on proof of guilt only has to do with the charge of murder. At the end of the day, Omar is the enemy and releasing the enemy in your midst while the war is still going on endangers the public. That said he should stand trial, but the Canadian government should be amending the anti-terrorism act to ensure he is detained indefinitely if warranted.

I agree.

Not to mention the security costs. Still what I find more mind boggling, is when I hear Bob Rae speak. My interpretation is that he was suggesting Omar should be compensated. :blink: Imagine giving millions to known terrorists, who are allegedly founders and financiers of Al Qaeda? That's beyond belief.

I'm not all that familiar with Bob Rae, but he can't seriously be suggesting that Omar should be compensated. For what?? That truly is beyond belief. It's like you said, he is guilty of being the enemy.

Canada has become a nation of followers who don't want to offend anyone. They see Canada's identity as the nicey nicey of the world. They want to follow the courts when the purpose of the courts is to interpret the laws made by the people. The people need to lead.

I agree with you. I think in it's quest to be "tolerant" and "nice," I think Canada can, and does in some instances, go overboard -- and the result is tolerating intolerance. I see that to be the case with the Khadr family.

If Omar got out tomorrow and blew up a subway killing thousands, many would rationalize it by saying we didn't have a choice. When we do.

I don't say how anyone could say you didn't have a choice; I don't follow that line of reasoning at all.

I've said this before, but Canada's identity is that of a civilized multicultural society; not an all cultural society. We don't have to accept extremists. Nor should we.

Again, I agree completely. Canada should first and foremost remain true to its 'culture.' By the same token, I wouldn't expect to move to Saudi Arabia and live by western culture/laws. It's like you said, it's a matter of not excepting extremists.

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Tango, I don't think it's a case of people accepting a verdict of guilty or not guilty. It's a case of whether people give a damn. Some people have passed the point of caring and some people have not cared one way or another since day one. Whatever, he's a whipping boy for two distinct camps. One group uses him to whip up anti-US sentiment and the other to whip up vigilance in the fight against terrorism. There is no middle ground that I can detect.

If he's found guilty, he'll never be set free, whether he serves his sentence in a US jail or a Canadian jail. If he's found not guilty, he'll be a hounded man until the day he dies. Either way, his life is no longer his own.

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The Scottish judicary released a real terrorist on compassionate grounds. Obama the non-Christian was preturbed - the Scotts retorted with "You may not have compassion within your judical system - but we do" Good for the great Scotts - at least they did not rush off into Iraq - and blast the place back into the stone age - because of some terror thing - When all the while the Kingdom Of Saudia Arabia was f**king the Americans in the ass with one hand and trading oil with the other. Let the damn kid go - show some class - Soon as Bush's little puppet Harper realizes there has been a power shift and Cheney is no longer in charge the better off we will all be.

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Guest American Woman
Tango, I don't think it's a case of people accepting a verdict of guilty or not guilty. It's a case of whether people give a damn. Some people have passed the point of caring and some people have not cared one way or another since day one. Whatever, he's a whipping boy for two distinct camps. One group uses him to whip up anti-US sentiment and the other to whip up vigilance in the fight against terrorism. There is no middle ground that I can detect.

So which camp do you belong to?

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If a US or Canadian court does not find Omar guilty of anything, will people accept that?

The man is a terrorist. There is no question of that. There is no doubt about it. I don't understand why you cringing lefties seem to anguish over fine points of technical law. "Can we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this particular terrorist was the one who threw the grenade at that particular time, and was that even against Canadian law!?" you demand.

And most of us say "Who the hell cares? Shoot him."

Because that's what you do with his kind.

It's like you think, okay, here's a training camp for terrorists. They went to Afghanistan, they're learning how to kill, how to blow things up, how to fight against the evil west, and on graduation day, the rest of us think it would a fine joke to drop a massive bomb on them. But not you. You'd say "Well now, they haven't been convicted in a court of law yet of committing any crimes."

Who cares!?

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And most of us say "Who the hell cares? Shoot him."

Because that's what you do with his kind.

Amen to that!!!.........exactly right!!

Firing squad at dawn and just to keep you lefties happy will even throw in a blindfold... ;)

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... what I can't understand is those who defend him and his actions and would be fine with his return to Canada.

I suppose I can fit the bill as one of those who defend him - but I do not defend his actions. OK's actions were his actions; no defense required. He did whatever he did and didn't do whatever he didn't do. So the question is what did OK do? Who knows? I don't know and neither does anyone else....well, except the US government I guess, since they say they have the evidence to support their charges...and OK himself. It is my view that we must await the actual trial to reasonably determine these things.

Nevertheless, terrorist or not, I would indeed be fine with his return to Canada. Either to incarceration as a terrorist (like the terrorist Hicks being allowed to return to confinement in Australia) or to freedom as not-a-terrorist. Of course which condition will be determined by an American Military Commission. Or possibly the third condition is the USofA releases him to Canada upon request. In which case I'm ok with that too.

Why Canada has allowed his family to stay, and why Canada paid for medical bills after his father returned injured from Afghanistan considering why he was over there, is difficult for me to understand. In that regard, in response to those who say the United States is less tolerant than Canada, I don't see our 'intolerance' as a fault, or Canada's 'tolerance' as a virtue.

Are you suggesting that Papa Khadr's children should be refused medical treatment because of what Papa khadr did? Supposedly did, I might add? Who gives a shit what Papa Khadr did or didn't do? Everybody gets medical treatement required whithout regard to what their parents have done. On my dime too!

I have absolutely no problem with that. And surprise surprise it applies in the good ol' USofA too!. Its called compassion and is a virtuous thing. Tolerance/intolerance is neither here nor there.

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Tango, I don't think it's a case of people accepting a verdict of guilty or not guilty. It's a case of whether people give a damn. Some people have passed the point of caring and some people have not cared one way or another since day one. Whatever, he's a whipping boy for two distinct camps. One group uses him to whip up anti-US sentiment and the other to whip up vigilance in the fight against terrorism. There is no middle ground that I can detect.

If he's found guilty, he'll never be set free, whether he serves his sentence in a US jail or a Canadian jail. If he's found not guilty, he'll be a hounded man until the day he dies. Either way, his life is no longer his own.

Considering the amount of discussion on this topic, I think people do "give a damn" one way or another.

No anti-US sentiment here. I'm impressed with the US soldiers who've stepped up to defend him. I also think that the US would be very relieved if Canada stepped up and brought him home: I think they know now that they don't have evidence against him, and they are embarrassed about keeping a kid incarcerated so long without trial.

Omar's life is toast either way, it's true. But perhaps there is hope he'll follow his brother's footsteps:

In the city of Toronto, on the other side of the world from Pakistan, is 21-year-old Abdurahman, the self-proclaimed black sheep of the Khadr family. He was released from the American prison at Guantanamo last October and says he is now prepared to tell his full story for the first time.

"I want to show people that I'm a person that lived all my life as Ahmed Said's son," he says. "A person that was raised to become an al-Qaeda, was raised to become a suicide bomber, was raised to become a bad person, and I came out to become – you know… I decided on my own that I do not want to be that, and I do not want to be a Muslim that's so loose… I want to be a good, strong, civilized, peaceful Muslim."

Here lies the essential division in the Khadr family.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/alqaedafamily2.html

He believes if al-Qaeda in Bosnia had found out he was working for the CIA, he would have been shot.

"It was always in the back of my mind and that's what I always told the CIA," Aburahaman said. "'You know what, you're paying me money and you think it's a lot, but you know there is that risk that I'll get shot. So don't think you're doing me a big favour by giving me that money. I'm doing you a big favour by working for you.'"

Abdurahman was in Bosnia when news arrived of the military attack in Pakistan, which killed his father, Ahmed Said Khadr. Abdurahman says he had long resented his father for dragging the whole family into the world of al-Qaeda.

"My reaction was, he's my father. There is no change to that. So as my father, I love him and I will always love him as my father, but not as what he did," he said.

"I've gone through so much that when they told me about it there was no reaction, there was no emotion," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/alqaedafamily8.html

For several months, Abdurahman travelled regularly around Kabul with American investigators and visitors.

"There was this tour. They called it Abdurahman tour," he said. " I was famous for that. I took people from the CIA, the FBI, and the military. We'd go around in a car in Kabul and I'd show them the houses of al-Qaeda people, the guesthouses, the safe houses - the house they used [before September 11] and the houses they used after."

U.S. embassy in Kabul

Abdurahman says he lived for nine months in a CIA safe house near the American embassy in Kabul. One day he was told that he was going to meet some visitors from Canada - four policemen who said they were from Toronto and Ottawa.

"They had me swear on the Koran that I would tell them the truth, the whole truth. They started asking me questions about my father, the organization he was working for, how he was connected to al-Qaeda, about my uncle, here in Canada, about my grandmother, about anybody that's related to us in any way.

"They stayed for two days. When they were done with me they told me 'you've been very cooperative. You've told us everything you knew. We think we can trust you and the minute we get [get back to Canada] we're going to try our best to get you back.'

"They showed me badges, told me they were from the RCMP."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/alqaedafamily6.html

"Why am I telling the story right now? Because I…cannot keep it in my heart anymore. I got to tell people I lied to them in the beginning…I want the people to learn that I lied for a reason and I'm sorry to have lied to them and I want to tell them the real story."

So why should anyone believe him?

"I cannot force anyone to believe me. I'm just saying that…this time I'm saying the truth. That is all the truth there is to it. Since I said this story I know there's going to be people after me. My family is going to hate me. Why do you think I would do all of this if it was just a lie?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/alqaedafamily6.html

Edited by tango
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Amen to that!!!.........exactly right!!

Firing squad at dawn and just to keep you lefties happy will even throw in a blindfold... ;)

This reply sounds hickish as does the previous statement "shoot em" - The world is not going to get larger - it is getting to be smaller by the day - we must keep up our walls - as they say good fences make good neighbours. Neighbours must be maintained just like fences - why bring about more hate and violence in the world - It was the Christian idea of compassion that built the west to some degree - and now we push compassion aside and become like radical Islam ourselves? How foolish of us to show such ingratitude to what made us prosper where as other nations are back ward and poor - we have mercy and mercy is grace = class! Those that blurt out "shoot em" are not people I want in charge. Anyone can destroy - but who can create?

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This reply sounds hickish as does the previous statement "shoot em" - The world is not going to get larger - it is getting to be smaller by the day - we must keep up our walls - as they say good fences make good neighbours. Neighbours must be maintained just like fences - why bring about more hate and violence in the world - It was the Christian idea of compassion that built the west to some degree - and now we push compassion aside and become like radical Islam ourselves? How foolish of us to show such ingratitude to what made us prosper where as other nations are back ward and poor - we have mercy and mercy is grace = class! Those that blurt out "shoot em" are not people I want in charge. Anyone can destroy - but who can create?

lol...whatever!

shoot the little terrorist's bastard!

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lol...whatever!

shoot the little terrorist's bastard!

Is that the Cheney definition of terrorist or the Israeli definintion of terrorist? The Cheney one is - what ever poor guy who tries to mess with my stack of cash - is a terrorist ...The Israeli definition is _ what every guy attempts to get back from me what I have stolen from him is a terrorist. :lol: Who ever is the victor is establishment and respected - the sore losers takes the roll of terrorist......By your way of thinking - who ever loses the match must not just forfiet the trophy but must be executed...ever consider going back in time to central America and playing their form of basket ball? The winner loses his head and his head is the ball for the next match.. :lol:

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Is that the Cheney definition of terrorist or the Israeli definintion of terrorist? The Cheney one is - what ever poor guy who tries to mess with my stack of cash - is a terrorist ...The Israeli definition is _ what every guy attempts to get back from me what I have stolen from him is a terrorist. :lol:

No! that would be the Islamic radical definintion of a terrorist's and we need to shoot every damn one of them!

no exception!.......dead terrorist's no longer terrorize! There is no room for Compassion for terrorist's absolutely none!! We need to use every means at our disposal to Hunt them, Find them and of course destroy them!

Edited by wulf42
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No! that would be the Islamic radical definintion of a terrorist's and we need to shoot every damn one of them!

no exception!.......dead terrorist's no longer terrorize! There is no room for Compassion for terrorist's absolutely none!! We need to use every means at our disposal to Hunt them, Find them and of course destroy them!

Why do we like fools invite people into our national family who hate us and seek to destroy us - Was it some miscalculated buisness idea about bringing in cheap labour to enhance the status quo - and keep some selfish rich pricks going - look at Britan - the old white private sector - lobbied for cheap labour from developing nations - thinking they would be as submissive as the original Christain stock - these guys that were in error when it came to immigration are responsible for bringing in domestic terror and home grown terrorists - do we destroy these rich old bastards for letting down the draw bridge allowing the rats to cross into the castle.

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Why do we like fools invite people into our national family who hate us and seek to destroy us -

Actually on this we agree!........the Government does let the enemy in everyday and at some point it has to stop

Harper would stop it but he can't because it is a minority Government and of course they do not work!!

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Looking at a nation as a family - and a country as real estate an a house sits on that land - What human being would endager his family - what father (government) would not be vigilant in the least when inviting in a guest or adopting a new family member? I am an uneducated man, but I am intuative - If I see a person and he looks at me with hate and in his eyes burns murder - why the hell am I going to leave myself open or the door open to what will bring my family or myself demise? The problem is not a minority government, the problem is our modernity - our liberal indoctrination that creates a mindset that states - there is no evil in the world..all is just fine - sorry but there are bad people - they can not help it - they are what they are and not containing the evil is foolish. Why attempt to contain it within your own house hold-- when you can contain it by leaving it in it's place of origin.

Also: The interviewing of possible immigrants should be done on a personal one to one basis - with someone in charge that is wise - The process should not be about paperwork - and a group of burearcrats going by the criteria on a written page - applying for immigration is like applying for welfare or getting the results you want in the family law system - If you know the system - you feed the machine exactly what it wants to hear - no more no less - and bingo! You're in!

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lol...whatever!

shoot the little terrorist's bastard!

Well I guess you weren't really bothered by being referred to as a 'child killer' at all, were you?

oleg said

If I see a person and he looks at me with hate and in his eyes burns murder

Unh ... psychopaths don't oleg.

QUOTE (Oleg Bach @ Aug 23 2009, 02:04 PM) *

Is that the Cheney definition of terrorist or the Israeli definintion of terrorist? The Cheney one is - what ever poor guy who tries to mess with my stack of cash - is a terrorist ...The Israeli definition is _ what every guy attempts to get back from me what I have stolen from him is a terrorist. laugh.gif

Good points!

And of course Cheney creates terrorism so he gets the business

No! that would be the Islamic radical definintion of a terrorist's and we need to shoot every damn one of them!

no exception!.......dead terrorist's no longer terrorize! There is no room for Compassion for terrorist's absolutely none!! We need to use every means at our disposal to Hunt them, Find them and of course destroy them!

How do you identify them wulf? sniff test? :lol:

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Okay - I give in - we should just chop of the little buggers head and water board the thing until it's as round as a river rock. The child soldier thing does not fly - If my dad took me out to commit a burglary - well - and I was 15...? hard to say...it depends if there is candy envolved or an old issue of Playboy.

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Well it seems the options of Khadr's kids were pretty limited while their father was alive, and momma's no peach either:

Brother Abduraham

"Okay, the first time I went to training I was 11 and a half years old. I remember that. My brother was 12 and we went to Khaladan," Abdurahman says. "We took the first course, which is the assault rifles course. We stayed in the course for two months and then we went back to Pakistan. And then since like, I could say since '92 until 2003, I've been to Khaladan like five times. I took an assault rifle course, explosive-making course, snipers, pistols… and a course that includes all of these."

...

"I like my son to be brave. I mean as I was telling you, if I was in Canada, I would like my son to be trained to protect himself, to protect his home, to protect his neighbour, to really fight to defend it. I would really love to do that, and I would love my son to grow with this mentality," Maha says.

...

"You would like me to raise my child in Canada and by the time he's 12 or 13 he'll be on drugs or having some homosexual relation or this and that. Is it better?" Maha says. "For me, no. I would rather have my son as a strong man who knows right and wrong and stands for it even if it's against his parents. It's much better for me than to have my child walking on the streets in Canada taking drugs or doing all this nonsense."

...

The rebellious behavior of Abdurahman in the bin Laden training camps became increasingly embarrassing for his father. There were intense arguments between father and son.

...

"Three times my father himself tried to get me to become a suicide bomber," Abdurahman says. "He sat me down with the al-Qaeda scholar, he sat me down with, you know, the person to train people to become suicide bombers. He sat me down with these two people and tried to convince me to become a suicide bomber. He's like, you know, you'd be our pride in this family, you'd be our pride, you know, if you do this. But I was totally against it. I was like I believe in fighting, you know, someone on the ground and he shoots me and I shoot him, you know. But I don't believe in blowing myself up, killing innocent people. I don't, I just don't believe in that… I just see that he [my father] really believed in it. And he wanted me to believe in it too."

So ... that's what they do with the kids who rebel: make them become suicide bombers.

Some choice Omar had.

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The American CIA is under investigation how it treated AL Qaeda prisoner's, personally i have no problen with it whatsoever..........this is exactly how you deal with terrorist's including Omar!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/23/cia...port/index.html

Edited by wulf42
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Listening devices in their Mosques would be a good start, if they are not hiding anything then there should be no problem..right?

I for one would have no problem with listening devices installed in my Church if that was the condition of being able to put them in Mosques. So if they have nothing to hide t hey shouldn't mind.

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