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Why Our Soldiers Fight!


wulf42

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Canada's role there is punishment for Chretien's refusal to go to take over the oil wells of Iraq. Harper's sop to Bush was to send Canadian troops to Afg. to clear the route for the oil pipeline through Pakistan.

Loosen that tin foil hat son, it was the liberals who sent Troops to Afghan....Chretien to be precise followed by Martin.

How's that pipeline coming? Got a map of where it's being laid?

Edited by M.Dancer
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Them too.

Names of companies and details of their involvement please?

No...I wouldn't want to mention companies like Ironhorse Oil & Gas and ruin your naivete. No need to bring up Ivanhoe Mining. No...it's only US corporate interests raping the planet for fun and profit.

Here's a fun tidbit about former Canadian PM Chretien working for Ivanhoe Mining interests in Myanmar (Burma):

Chretien's hiring raises troubling questions whether Ivanhoe has bought his support not just to advance the firm's well publicized project in Mongolia but also to assist in removing Myanmar Ivanhoe Copper Company Limited (MICCL) from the American Burma sanctions list. MICCL is Ivanhoe's 50-50 joint venture with the Burmese military regime which operates Burma's largest mine.

http://www.rabble.ca/news/2009/07/chretien...ine-stakeholder

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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First let me make clear I do not work for CSIS nor Mossad, the CIA, Deuxieme Bureau, MI-6,

FBI, NCIS, Shin Bet, South Korean Intelligence Agency, Mexican State police nor have I ever worked for the RCMP

and I do not own a taser.

Secondly, may I state with certainty although I can not reveal my sources, that no

CSIS has not assassinated anyone.

It barely has a budget to operate and it has very little if any funds to go overseas and do much of anything.

As for the CIA while they use drones to try locate terrorists, chances are it is a conventional armed force in the United States, most probably the navy that is responsible for the actual missiles sent to take a terrorist out in Pakistan.

Don't watch too much of that James Bond stuff. Reality is a lot more boring.

As well, there is a lot of disinformation sent back and forth as to these things-I doubt any of us will find out the actual truth until many years later when its no longer strategically compromising to reveal what actually happened.

Play fair you say? How does one play fair with a terrorist?

The reality is anything goes. Terrorists follow no rules. Trying to play paddy cake with someone who is trying to amputate your limbs is not a good idea.

That's my point! we shouldn t play fair.....the war we are in now is a guerilla warfare against terrorist's who will kill anyone or anything that interferes with their opium trade and perverted twist of their religion!

Army Guy.......many Canadians such as myself believe in the mission and our Soldiers Fully and Completely, as far as i am concerned Canada can't thank you enough!! you are the reason Canadians go to bed tonight alot safer than before...our battle with the Taliban is saving lives at home by help keeping these terrorist's away from us!! It's bad enough being away from home but at high personal risk as well!!!........Stay safe!!

Edited by wulf42
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No...I wouldn't want to mention companies like Ironhorse Oil & Gas and ruin your naivete. No need to bring up Ivanhoe Mining. No...it's only US corporate interests raping the planet for fun and profit.

Here's a fun tidbit about former Canadian PM Chretien working for Ivanhoe Mining interests in Myanmar (Burma):

Chretien's hiring raises troubling questions whether Ivanhoe has bought his support not just to advance the firm's well publicized project in Mongolia but also to assist in removing Myanmar Ivanhoe Copper Company Limited (MICCL) from the American Burma sanctions list. MICCL is Ivanhoe's 50-50 joint venture with the Burmese military regime which operates Burma's largest mine.

http://www.rabble.ca/news/2009/07/chretien...ine-stakeholder

;) Thanks.

I'm well aware of the disastrous effects of Canadian mining companies in other parts of the world, Barrick Gold, for example. I hadn't heard of any involvement in Iraq/Afghanistan, but can't say I'm surprised.

Sorry, didn't mean to dis only US resource corporations. They're all disastrous, imo.

Point being ... imo it isn't about the Iraqi or Afghan people, but about corporate profits.

Only the soldiers on the ground actually care about the people.

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....Point being ... imo it isn't about the Iraqi or Afghan people, but about corporate profits.

Only the soldiers on the ground actually care about the people.

Sorry, but we can't have it both ways. The armed forces of Canada or the United States specifically serve the interests of their respective nations first, and that includes corporatism. Humanitarian and economic development for "people" cannot be sustained without security and political stability.

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Sorry, but we can't have it both ways. The armed forces of Canada or the United States specifically serve the interests of their respective nations first, and that includes corporatism. Humanitarian and economic development for "people" cannot be sustained without security and political stability.

Nothing was sadder than a hippy at a rock festival who gladdly hands over his pound of pot to the bikers that come ridding over the hill - peace and love baby...bullshit! Sure you have to love - it's the final and almighty power - but if there are those that refuse or can not love and they want to kill your ass - you need to have a secure ass..on that can kick ass..their ass. Great peace makers and lovers are all great warriors also..and they choose how to live--those that dispise the marshall class are cowards - they are the hippies that fear bikers.

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Like your argument, it is a figment of a feverish imagination....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.[1] In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. Since the United States military overthrew the Taliban government, the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable since the southern part of the Afghan section runs through territory which continues to be under de facto Taliban control.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1984459.stm

The construction of the 850-kilometre pipeline had been previously discussed between Afghanistan's former Taliban regime, US oil company Unocal and Bridas of Argentina.

The project was abandoned after the US launched missile attacks on Afghanistan in 1999.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts31283.htm

23-02-03 Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan (TAP) have signed a protocol for trans-Afghanistan Gas Pipeline Project, while urging India to join the project to make it economically viable. The decision was formally announced after the fourth steering committee meeting of three participating countries of the $ 3.5 bn TAP gas project and the Asian Development Bank (ADB), which was scheduled to complete feasibility study by September 2003.

There was a plan, but all this is just a figment of all our imaginations. I am still hunting some information that would indicate it is being planned/worked on again. It could have been axed or postponed indefinately.

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There was a plan, but all this is just a figment of all our imaginations. I am still hunting some information that would indicate it is being planned/worked on again. It could have been axed or postponed indefinately.

Of course it has been discussed. It has been discussed for decades. Mainly cause it makes sense. The tinfoil aspect is that the war in afghanstan is about the pipeline.

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And while you say it is your job, the job of every Canadian to ensure our soldiers lifes are not pissed away....from a soldiers piont of view "when is that going to happen" it's now been well over 7 years now since we've been deployed to Afghanistan with the majority of Canadians "not Supporting this mission for a large number of those.....in our eyes you've failed in this one simple task "protecting our nations soldiers"

Perhaps it's a matter of misinterpretation. As you said and I said, questioning everything is our responsibility (and the soldiers). It should not be interpreted as lack of Canadian support for the soldiers day to day work: We know they are doing their best for the Afghan people, and we want it not to be in vain in the long run.

No tango, there is no misinterpretation, you and others on this board have clearly stated that it is the Citizens of Canada's responsabilty to ensure that our nations soldiers are deployed on the right missions for Canada....

Not that polls are a good indicator but they show that a clear majority of Canadians do not support this mission nor have they for well over 5 to 6 years....According to these polls it clearly shows Canadians do not want this mission....my question is when do they start taking they're responabilty seriously....if asking or questioning our government is the extent of that responsabilty then it's a pretty hollow one....to think what actually is at stake here my life and those of my comrads....in that regards i think they the citizens of Canada have failed....in actual fact there is a very weak protection system in place for our soldiers....dont you think. So weak in fact that one can hardly make that statement that "we the citizens of Canada have a responsibilty to ensure the safety of our soldiers"......

"Act" how?

There are hundred's of ways to act or get a message to government we read about them all the time in the media....write your MP, start a pation, hold a rally, close a bridge or road....the list is endless....

I don't mean to be blunt Tango....but if the Soldiers did infact agree with the Majority of Canadians that Afghan was a lost cause then we would be still waiting over 6 years for the citizens to get us out....well over 120 lives later...

You did say that the citizens are the ones putting thier soldiers lifes in harms way, and you must be sure that the results are worthy of the soldiers efforts.....and while i agree this should be happening, i find it alittle ironic that you totally shut out the vioces and opinions of those very same soldiers the citizens are so worried about , you know those very people thats lifes are on the line every day,
How do you feel I have done that? I don't think I did, and it certainly was not my intention.

When i said you , i meant to include the majority of Canadians in there as well . How many times have soldiers vioces been printed in the media, and how many have had anything negative to say about the mission...while 99 % have said it is a honourable mission, it is worth our sacrafice, our efforts and our tax dollars....this from the soldiers that have spent 6 to 8 months in Afghan seen, smelled, and tasted Afghan up close and personal, most have lost close personal friends, brothers, sisters, and yet they remain focused on the WHY we do what we do, and yet the majority of Canadians wash these opinions away with a coke and burger.....Dismissed , because it is thought they are brain washed to spout the party line, thats what soldiers are suppose to say....not true...they have lived in Afghan for 6 to 8 months and have seen first hand what is going on in Afghan....

And yet some MP's come over spend 2 to 3 days on the Base talk to a few poeple and become subject matter experts on the topic , fly back to Canada spew thier thoughts to the media and poof, it's gosple....hallalu ya let the truth set me free.....mean while soldiers in Afghan are wondering do Canadians really believe in that shit....yes they do....if they only knew the truth....

Canadian soldiers are fighting and dying in a cause they believe in, to risks one life for a cause has to say something.....

Sorry but ... it's a US military/corporate mission.

You've not been listening....

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And yet some MP's come over spend 2 to 3 days on the Base talk to a few poeple and become subject matter experts on the topic , fly back to Canada spew thier thoughts to the media and poof, it's gosple....hallalu ya let the truth set me free.....mean while soldiers in Afghan are wondering do Canadians really believe in that shit....yes they do....if they only knew the truth....

You've not been listening....

It's those politicians that are failing us both then. Simply because they are not telling us at home the real truth. Not only is this a disservice to you as a soldier, but it is doing us at home the disservice as well of not being up front and honest. Here lies the real issue. It's all called Public Relations. The government wants the mission to continue, regardless of what Canadians have been thinking or wanting since boots where first put on the ground in Afghanistan.

I did not believe in the cause right from the start. Because, I don't think the problem is really in Afghanistan. Pakistan needed some slaps upside the head long before Afghanistan needed it.

Keep posting, my good man. Please enlighten us with what is really on soldiers minds out there.

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And while you say it is your job, the job of every Canadian to ensure our soldiers lifes are not pissed away....from a soldiers piont of view "when is that going to happen" it's now been well over 7 years now since we've been deployed to Afghanistan with the majority of Canadians "not Supporting this mission for a large number of those.....in our eyes you've failed in this one simple task "protecting our nations soldiers"

No tango, there is no misinterpretation, you and others on this board have clearly stated that it is the Citizens of Canada's responsabilty to ensure that our nations soldiers are deployed on the right missions for Canada....

Not that polls are a good indicator but they show that a clear majority of Canadians do not support this mission nor have they for well over 5 to 6 years....According to these polls it clearly shows Canadians do not want this mission....my question is when do they start taking they're responabilty seriously....if asking or questioning our government is the extent of that responsabilty then it's a pretty hollow one....to think what actually is at stake here my life and those of my comrads....in that regards i think they the citizens of Canada have failed....in actual fact there is a very weak protection system in place for our soldiers....dont you think. So weak in fact that one can hardly make that statement that "we the citizens of Canada have a responsibilty to ensure the safety of our soldiers"......

There are hundred's of ways to act or get a message to government we read about them all the time in the media....write your MP, start a pation, hold a rally, close a bridge or road....the list is endless....

I don't mean to be blunt Tango....but if the Soldiers did infact agree with the Majority of Canadians that Afghan was a lost cause then we would be still waiting over 6 years for the citizens to get us out....well over 120 lives later...

When i said you , i meant to include the majority of Canadians in there as well . How many times have soldiers vioces been printed in the media, and how many have had anything negative to say about the mission...while 99 % have said it is a honourable mission, it is worth our sacrafice, our efforts and our tax dollars....this from the soldiers that have spent 6 to 8 months in Afghan seen, smelled, and tasted Afghan up close and personal, most have lost close personal friends, brothers, sisters, and yet they remain focused on the WHY we do what we do, and yet the majority of Canadians wash these opinions away with a coke and burger.....Dismissed , because it is thought they are brain washed to spout the party line, thats what soldiers are suppose to say....not true...they have lived in Afghan for 6 to 8 months and have seen first hand what is going on in Afghan....

And yet some MP's come over spend 2 to 3 days on the Base talk to a few poeple and become subject matter experts on the topic , fly back to Canada spew thier thoughts to the media and poof, it's gosple....hallalu ya let the truth set me free.....mean while soldiers in Afghan are wondering do Canadians really believe in that shit....yes they do....if they only knew the truth....

Canadian soldiers are fighting and dying in a cause they believe in, to risks one life for a cause has to say something.....

You've not been listening....

I'm sorry Army Guy, but neither have you.

The soldiers believe their mission to help the Afghan people is honourable. I agree.

However, that is not the real purpose of the mission, and we are naive if we try to believe it's all about helping the Afghan people.

It isn't. It's about corporate powers helping themselves to resources, once our soldiers have cleared the way for them.

It isn't about spreading democracy: It's about spreading corporate power and control.

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Better still ... pluck out both of your eyes so you don't have to see the truth.

Truth? Like how incredidbly wealthy Afghanistan is ? So much so that some day, one day, maybe, after pouring countless billions into it....there may be a profit?

You don't have to be a wingnut kook to believe the crap you do, but it certainly makes it easier.

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I did not believe in the cause right from the start. Because, I don't think the problem is really in Afghanistan. Pakistan needed some slaps upside the head long before Afghanistan needed it.

While true Pakistan is a major source of problems in the Afghanistan nation, but things are starting to turn around on that front, the last serveral months have seen Pakistan take the offensive, and start to push back the Pakistan taliban ....of course a new US president, new funding, and a few threats have brought them on line but things are not looking so good for the Taliban in Pakistan right now....

To route out the main problem we had to start in Afghan, once there the pakistan problem came to light....one has to remember that the entire Afghan mission has always been undermanned meaning NATO could not hold territory it won in battles but rather chased the Taliban around hoping to catch them in the open....can't win like that....NATO or should i say it's major players are now pumping in more man power and equipment and is now able to hold on to what it is captured and start the rebuilding process....

One has to remember that to show support for our troops one has to have faith in our troops.....and all along we've been saying we are making a difference and we can win this thing....but not with out support from home...it is on this front that the Taliban are winning .....

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I'm sorry Army Guy, but neither have you.

I have been listening, and i get your piont, with all i've seen and done in Afghan i can not understand how you camer up with your opinion or thought process...you or most Canadians....don't get me wrong i don't hold that again'st you, your entitled to it....all i ask is you keep an open mind....

However, that is not the real purpose of the mission, and we are naive if we try to believe it's all about helping the Afghan people.

It isn't. It's about corporate powers helping themselves to resources, once our soldiers have cleared the way for them

.

Tango there is no pipe line in Afghan right now, there has been no NATO military objectives to clear the route of said pipeline thru Afghan....this pipeline theory is old and now resurfacing for what ever reason....According to sources in the media this pipe line is going thru Kanadar ...funney, that NATO would put a small contingent of CDN's in charge of that key portion of the project....when 1000's of American troops could have sealed up this part of the country long ago and had construction of this pipe line well under way.....In fact if we wnet along with this story it would mean a path would have to be cleared thru Pakistan....another impossiable task....NATO forces are still not large enough to secure Afghan, and Pakistan forces can't secure the far reaches of it's own nation.....

All of our taskings, operations todate have been to clear out taliban strong holds spread across our AO, most are not even in the Kanadar area, where your pipeline is suppose to be....the Canadian task force has been either hunting down taliban or rebuilding serveral key projects including the a major DAM in the area....all is available on line....no pipeleine, just helping the Afghan government and its people....

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They probably say pretty much the same thing; Play fair you say? How does one play fair with an empire?

Uh no. Read their manifestoes and articles and speeches. The doctrines they preach

have nothing to do with being understand, or seeking mutual recognition. Try read some

of them. Sounds like you are trying to re-write what terrorists are and turn them into

logical, rational people.

The whole point of a terrorist's existence is precisely because they do not believe in

being "fair". They make no claims to being "fair". Read what Taliban, Al Quaeda,

Hamas, Hezbollah, fatah Hawks stand for.

Read their own words.

If you want to try rationalize terrorists as logical people merely interested in fairness

and no different then Western governments, save that romantic notion of terrorists for

someone else.

Thanks. Some of us unfortunately have interacted with them. No they are not

rational, no they are not interested in fairness, and no they are not reluctant

defenders of the down trodden forced to engage in what they do.

You are talking about people who believe anyone that does not follow what they

say to the tee, is expendable. It has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do

with the dhimmi culture of imposing violent methods to conquer and get people to submit.

Al Quaeda and Taliban and Fatah Hawks and Hamas and Hezbollah don't have tea and cookie

sessions and recruit who they do presenting visions of fairness.

They appeal to brute force and violence and the belief there is only one way-their way.

Fairness suggests an ability to decipher and acknowledge more than one point of view or

set of interests being just as legitimate as another's. Terrorism is the belief there is only

one point of view.

You want to suggest Taliban or Al Quaeda or Fatah Hawks are simply a conventional army engaging in the same

tactics as Canada or the U.S. please sell that to someone else.

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