Manitoba NDP denies request

[Smallc]

And Dobbin has a lot of nerve bringing this whole issue up. Thanks to the Ontario Liberals, eye exams and PSA tests for prostate cancer are now unfunded by OHIP.

I understand stopping funding for eye exams....but PSA tests? Will they cover them if they are found positive?

Ok, it's not as bad as you made out. It's still paid for when medically necessary:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/provid...est/insert.html

Oh, and neither is this:

An eye examination is covered by OHIP once a year for persons under 20 and those 65 and over. OHIP also covers a major eye exam once every 12 months for persons aged 20 - 64 who have medical conditions requiring regular eye examinations (refer to OHIP Bulletin 8089 or to Changes to OHIP Coverage for Eye Care

Services).http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public...p/services.html

Edited August 8, 2009 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Maybe I'm dense, but where does it say that private insurance can't cover it?

[jdobbin]

Maybe I'm dense, but where does it say that private insurance can't cover it?

It would have to be delisted completely and deemed not a health condition.

In other words, the government would have to put it in the same category as cosmetic surgery.

Here is how provinces stop private health insurance:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health...article1220145/

The province also allowed Quebeckers - as the Supreme Court had ordered - to purchase private insurance for a limited number of surgical procedures, such as hip and knee replacements.

The catch was these surgeries could only be practised by physicians who had opted out of the public system, of which there are few.

In the case of sex change operations in Manitoba, the government would have to step aside and then allow doctors who do work in the public health area to be allowed to do the surgery using private insurance.

Edited August 8, 2009 by jdobbin

[Shady]

I don't live in Ontario.

That hasn't stopped you from attacking Ontario Conservatives. And it certainly hasn't stopped you from attacking B.C. NDP. Hypocrisy, thy name is Dobbin.

[jdobbin]

That hasn't stopped you from attacking Ontario Conservatives. And it certainly hasn't stopped you from attacking B.C. NDP. Hypocrisy, thy name is Dobbin.

I have criticized federal Ontario Conservatives on federal matters. I don't comment for the most part about Ontario PCs and so you'll have to point out where I have said anything. I don't even comment on McGuinty Liberals since I don't know the local provincial issues. So, I'd say once again you are lying.

As for the provincial NDP, I have criticized the social and ethical discrepancies between federal and provincial parties on things like PR, environment and on some health issues. It has generally been from a federal angle such as how the provincial Liberals did fine on the issue of a carbon tax and how it hurt the NDP to oppose it. So unless you have something specific, you are once again lying.

There are times I compare provincial policies but the focus is mostly on the province I know.

Let's just say that you thrive on personal attacks since that is what you do regularly in these forums.

Edited August 8, 2009 by jdobbin

[Shady]

I don't comment for the most part about Ontario PCs

What does "for the most part" mean? It means you do. And you have.

I don't even comment on McGuinty Liberals since I don't know the local provincial issues.

That's because you don't want to comment on McGuinty's Liberals. You attack other provincial non-Liberal parties for deficit spending, and a lack of health services, but you can't comment on McGuinty's Liberals in Ontario, because they're 10 times worse than the examples you cite elsewhere.

Let's just say that you thrive on personal attacks since that is what you do regularly in these forums.

That may be your opinion. My opinion is that you thrive on hypocrisy and half-truths. Like in this case, where Liberals cut actual medical necessities, and you have the nerve to attack the NDP for not committing to funding sex-change operations. Shame on you.

[Moxie]

Treating a physcological mental disorder like it's curable with surgery is a scary approach, they need mental health treatment not body altering surgery. Just because the absolute tolerance crowd deems it a surgical condition doesn't make it so, those poor souls need years of intensivee treatment not massive reconstruction surgery on the taxpayer's dime. If one hear's a voice in their head stating they need a third nipple a general surgion wouldn't operate but unfortunately we've been forced by the PC brigade to treat mental health issues as normal instead we should be treating the mentally ill not catering to their delusions.

[jdobbin]

What does "for the most part" mean? It means you do. And you have.

Where?

Please cite because I can't remember doing so. You obviously have a ironclad case of where I have commented on Ontario politics specifically to PCs so let's have it. I have have looked back over three dozen provincial threads and I don't see where I have made a comment.

So unless you have a cite, you are a liar.

That's because you don't want to comment on McGuinty's Liberals. You attack other provincial non-Liberal parties for deficit spending, and a lack of health services, but you can't comment on McGuinty's Liberals in Ontario, because they're 10 times worse than the examples you cite elsewhere.

Quite honestly, it is because I don't know the provincial issues or the government there. When it comes to provincial leader and parties, my interest is generally intergovernmental relations as they pertain to federal matters such as trade, finance, environment.

I do criticize all Canadian jurisdictions for deficit financing. It is because the debt affects us nation-wide. In that regard, I have criticized Ontario and the present McGuinty government. However, I don't know the specific issues that cause that deficit to occur and don't comment on them.

That may be your opinion. My opinion is that you thrive on hypocrisy and half-truths. Like in this case, where Liberals cut actual medical necessities, and you have the nerve to attack the NDP for not committing to funding sex-change operations. Shame on you.

It isn't my opinion. It is what you do. You attack personally.

And then you lie repeatedly and when you get caught you scurry away. Shame on you but then you don't have shame because you thrive on doing it.

You still haven't read my response to the funding. If the government can't or won't fund something, let private insurance do it. And yes, they do fund it in other countries privately.

Edited August 9, 2009 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Treating a physcological mental disorder like it's curable with surgery is a scary approach, they need mental health treatment not body altering surgery.

Thinking that it is just a mental approach is akin to thinking you can stop people from being gay.

[Canadian Blue]

Big difference is that being gay has no effect on the treasury. When I had glasses people called me four eyes, perhaps the government should fund all laser eye surgery.

[jdobbin]

Big difference is that being gay has no effect on the treasury. When I had glasses people called me four eyes, perhaps the government should fund all laser eye surgery.

If the government doesn't want to fund it, they should allow private insurance to come in. They don't though.

[Canadian Blue]

Then let private insurance come in to fill the void. We had the same fight in Alberta over delisting sex change surgery.

I doubt the reason for the delisting is because the Manitoba NDP are a bunch of gay bashers.

[jdobbin]

Then let private insurance come in to fill the void. We had the same fight in Alberta over delisting sex change surgery.

I doubt the reason for the delisting is because the Manitoba NDP are a bunch of gay bashers.

The NDP won't let private insurance come in and they won't fund a number of procedures including this one.

It is easier politically to deny funding and then sit on their hands.

[g_bambino]

Thinking that it is just a mental approach is akin to thinking you can stop people from being gay.

Moxie spoke about surgical approaches, not metal ones.

[Hydraboss]

Treating a physcological mental disorder like it's curable with surgery is a scary approach, they need mental health treatment not body altering surgery. Just because the absolute tolerance crowd deems it a surgical condition doesn't make it so, those poor souls need years of intensivee treatment not massive reconstruction surgery on the taxpayer's dime. If one hear's a voice in their head stating they need a third nipple a general surgion wouldn't operate but unfortunately we've been forced by the PC brigade to treat mental health issues as normal instead we should be treating the mentally ill not catering to their delusions.

Thanks for the bang-on post Moxie. Now I don't have to type the same damn thing (cause guys like dobbin would just accuse me of being a racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot if I did).

People who are confused sexually are indeed suffering from a mental disorder, and surgery cannot fix that.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Hydraboss

[jdobbin]

Moxie spoke about surgical approaches, not metal ones.

Well, the article said it wasn't just about surgery. It is various aspects of medicine. Having said that, the condition has to be diagnosed first and that is done by getting a mental assessment.

He also said it was about someone's delusions which I don't believe they are.

Edited August 11, 2009 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Thanks for the bang-on post Moxie. Now I don't have to type the same damn thing (cause guys like dobbin would just accuse me of being a racist, intolerant, small-minded bigot if I did).

People who are confused sexually are indeed suffering from a mental disorder, and surgery cannot fix that.

I don't think I'd accuse you of anything except that this isn't something that appears to be curable through psychology or psychiatry. It is something people seem to be born with and not a personal choice.

If the government doesn't want to fund it fine. But stop putting restrictions on private insurance which does fund it.

[punked]

I don't think I'd accuse you of anything except that this isn't something that appears to be curable through psychology or psychiatry. It is something people seem to be born with and not a personal choice.

If the government doesn't want to fund it fine. But stop putting restrictions on private insurance which does fund it.

Which private insurance plans would these be Dobbin?

[jdobbin]

Which private insurance plans would these be Dobbin?

The same ones that exist in the U.S. as noted in this thread.

If the government doesn't want to fund it, let private insurance in. Is that so hard?

You and others say the government has no money. Fine. Don't stand in the way of private insurance. You can't have it both ways.

[punked]

The same ones that exist in the U.S. as noted in this thread.

If the government doesn't want to fund it, let private insurance in. Is that so hard?

You and others say the government has no money. Fine. Don't stand in the way of private insurance. You can't have it both ways.

You are going to have show me one private insurance plan which covers sex change operations Dobbin before you get to claim they exist you know. Becuase I have looked and have found 0 offered here or in the US. I think you are making them up and I link you to show there are many fighting for private insurance to cover it because they don't. This is another Gary Doer should let something happen that is impossible threads.

"Gary should let private insurance cover it even though they wouldn't" -Dobbin

http://www.hrc.org/issues/9568.htm

[jdobbin]

You are going to have show me one private insurance plan which covers sex change operations Dobbin before you get to claim they exist you know. Becuase I have looked and have found 0 offered here or in the US. I think you are making them up and I link you to show there are many fighting for private insurance to cover it because they don't. This is another Gary Doer should let something happen that is impossible threads.

"Gary should let private insurance cover it even though they wouldn't" -Dobbin

Goldman Sachs in the U.S. has insurance that covers it.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/...rk-sex-changes/

Goldman Sachs bankers and traders enjoy famously big bonuses and, this year, a little extra job security thanks to their firm’s ability to steer clear of the worst effects of the subprime mortgage debacle.

Now, they can add something else to the list of reasons why life is great at Goldman: free sex-change surgery.

Fortune.com reported Friday that Goldman added coverage of sex-reassignment surgery to its medical plan last year. The article was part of a sidebar on “unusual perks” that came with Fortune’s latest ranking of the 100 best companies to work for in the United States. (Goldman was No. 9, up significantly from No. 36 last year.)

So once again you are lying that there is no private insurance that covers it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

A growing number of public and commercial health insurance plans in the United States now contain defined benefits covering sex reassignment related procedures, usually including genital reconstruction surgery (MTF and FTM), chest reconstruction (FTM)and breast augmentation (MTF, and hysterectomy (FTM).

So now that I have proven that insurance covers it, will the government allow it?

Edited August 12, 2009 by jdobbin

[punked]

Goldman Sachs in the U.S. has insurance that covers it.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/...rk-sex-changes/

So once again you are lying that there is no private insurance that covers it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

So now that I have proven that insurance covers it, will the government allow it?

That is not private insurance in the way you are talking about it. It is on company insurance. It is such an anomaly it is under the article title "Unusual perks". So you are telling me Gary Doer should dismantle a single payer system in order for one Large company which does not operate in Manitoba to have a chance to offer a job to someone who wants a sex change? You are wrong you can not buy insurance which will cover sex change surgery it would kill an insurance companies bottom line. Goldman Sachs offers it and it one of 3 or 4 companies in the US which do however out of all the insured in the US maybe .05% have insurance which covers sex change surgery. That is your idea of help sounds like a true Liberal plan. Sorry you are wrong,

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/08/news/compa...sion=2008020809

God Dobbin seriously? Canada already supplements Sex Change surgery by offering the facilities to do it in. Ask yourself why in Canada it costs 20,000-30,000 and in the US it costs 150,000 dollars? Even if you had private insurance in the US which covered cosmetic surgery you would be lucky if they covered 50% of it. It is still going to cost you twice as much in the US. That is the system you want for the transgender? You want them to pay double? For what?

[jdobbin]

That is not private insurance in the way you are talking about it. It is on company insurance. It is such an anomaly it is under the article title "Unusual perks". So you are telling me Gary Doer should dismantle a single payer system in order for one Large company which does not operate in Manitoba to have a chance to offer a job to someone who wants a sex change? You are wrong you can not buy insurance which will cover sex change surgery it would kill an insurance companies bottom line. Goldman Sachs offers it and it one of 3 or 4 companies in the US which do however out of all the insured in the US maybe .05% have insurance which covers sex change surgery. That is your idea of help sounds like a true Liberal plan. Sorry you are wrong,

We have company medical insurance plans in Canada already. If the government doesn't want to fund something or can't, why get in the way?

The single payer system doesn't pay for pharmacy or dental. Why can't we buy it for surgeries like knees and sex changes?

God Dobbin seriously? Canada already supplements Sex Change surgery by offering the facilities to do it in. Ask yourself why in Canada it costs 20,000-30,000 and in the US it costs 150,000 dollars? Even if you had private insurance in the US which covered cosmetic surgery you would be lucky if they covered 50% of it. It is still going to cost you twice as much in the US. That is the system you want for the transgender? You want them to pay double? For what?

I'd like to see the option where none exists now.

In Alberta it has been completely de-listed. In Manitoba, it is not funded fully.

The only option people have now are no public care or pay out of their own pockets.

In short, we have company plans already. Give people the option of buying insurance through their companies that do cover it.

I have shown you it is available. You are saying it is impossible. Why is it impossible if we can do it for pharmacy and dental?

[Shady]

Dobbin is about as intellectually dishonest as I've ever seen a poster be in this forum. It's no wonder he's earned the title of political hack.

[jdobbin]

Dobbin is about as intellectually dishonest as I've ever seen a poster be in this forum. It's no wonder he's earned the title of political hack.

I have no idea what your problem is but you just attack personally. It is your main trait. It seems an obsession just as your anti-Obama threads. It is right wing, nasty, knuckle dragging, frothy mouthed bloviating on a hackster grand scale not seen in this day and age.

What is it that you don't like in this thread? It is simply the medical condition that you don't like? Or is the fact that private insurance covers it and can be made available if the province gets out of the way?