Amnesty details Gaza 'war crimes'

[KrustyKidd]

which video footage? show us all.

have you gone to gaza and done a competent investigation?

AI seems to have missed what Newsweek found. More proof they are either incompetent or biased.

It was another of Hamas's homemade Qassam rockets being launched into Israel—and the mobile launchpad was smack in the middle of the four buildings, where every apartment was full, most of them with newly made refugees.

"They were claiming there are tunnels under here," she said. Hamas fighters use tunnels, often short ones that are little more than bunkers, to pop out and launch attacks and then get back in, hiding from Israel's ubiquitous surveillance drones, reemerging in a house or backyard as an unarmed civilian. "There aren't any tunnels around here, we are not resistance," she said. Yet not more than 20 feet away from Najah, there was just such a tunnel, which Israeli troops had unearthed. Right in the middle of the road, it had a convincingly camouflaged roof that matched the rest of the road. Inside it was shored up with timbers and concrete.

She also gave NEWSWEEK a copy of what she said was a Hamas map which paratroopers recovered during ground operations inside Gaza. "It shows how a neighborhood was taken and divided into three war zones. Hamas centers were scattered over the neighborhood including a gas depot with explosive charges … On the map, you can see the Football Association and Technical School are surrounded by 45 Hamas positions, from which Hamas fired."

"There's nothing in Gaza but buildings," said a former Fatah military commander, who gave the name Mahmoud Barbakh. "No fighter can fight except in the streets, we can't fight Israel in the open." Yet Hamas did precious little fighting, he said, while ticking off half a dozen cases of Fatah militants who were deliberately shot in the legs by Hamas during the Israeli war, some for violations of Hamas orders putting them under house arrest.

One of the most notorious incidents during the war was the Jan. 15 shelling of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society buildings in the downtown Tal-al Hawa part of Gaza City, followed by a shell hitting their Al Quds Hospital next door; the subsequent fire forced all 500 patients to be evacuated. Asked if there were any militants firing from the hospital or the Red Crescent buildings, hospital director general Dr. Khalid Judah chose his words carefully. "I am not able to say if anyone was using the PRCS buildings [the two Palestine Red Crescent Society buildings adjacent to the hospital], but I know for a fact that no one was using the hospital." In the Tal-al Hawa neighborhood nearby, however, Talal Safadi, an official in the leftist Palestinian People's Party, said that resistance fighters were firing from positions all around the hospital. He shrugged that off, having a bigger beef with Hamas. "They failed to win the battle." Or as his fellow PPP official, Walid al Awad, put it: "It was a mistake to give Israel the excuse to come in."

More from the CBC - Gunfire, blasts heard as Israeli troops clash with Hamas fighters in Gaza

News of the latest offensive against Hamas militants came hours after the political group confirmed that Israel had killed one of its senior commanders, the second of its leaders to die in the past week.

Hamas said Abu Zakaria al-Jamal died from wounds sustained in an Israeli air strike overnight. Earlier in the week, another Hamas leader, Nizar Rayyan, was killed along with several family members when the Israeli air force bombed his house.

The Israeli military has said Hamas uses mosques for rocket storage, citing video footage of a previous air strike that show secondary explosions from the buildings.

Meanwhile, Palestinian militants fired at least 40 rockets into southern Israel on Saturday, lightly wounding three people in two separate attacks on Netivot and Ashdod.

The Israeli army has dropped thousands of leaflets over Gaza, warning people to leave their homes before targeted bombing raids.

Hamas uses all their people as Human Shields otherwise, they would not store weapons, and use buildings with civilians as firing positions.

[dub]

AI seems to have missed what Newsweek found. More proof they are either incompetent or biased.

what does this article have anything to do with all the video footage you claimed are lying around?

you failed to back up your claim: "With all the video footage of Hamas using human shields left right and centre"

are you going to back up your claim or are you going to ramble on and paste irrelevant articles?

[M.Dancer]

D'uh?

It was another of Hamas's homemade Qassam rockets being launched into Israel—and the mobile launchpad was smack in the middle of the four buildings, where every apartment was full, most of them with newly made refugees.

Poor Dub, pawned again.

[M.Dancer]

Hamas terrorists using kids

[dub]

way to jump in there and try to save the sinking krusty, but you fail again.

Hamas terrorists using kids

are you posting random videos which we know nothing about and were posted way before the recent conflict and calling them your evidence against amnesty international's investigation?

for a guy who claims to care so much about facts and the integrity of investigations, you sure don't follow what you say.

the AI investigation has already shown that the IDF has used palestinian civilians as human shields on numerous occasions.

it's amusing seeing war crimes apologists like dancer and krusty, apologizing for and even ignoring IDF's war crimes (using civilians as human shields), and then comeback with old and irrelevant videos to use as their counter investigation to AI.

you are a sad case.

[M.Dancer]

[quote name='dub' date='Jul 30 2009, 12:48 PM' post='447445'

the AI investigation has already shown that the IDF has used palestinian civilians as human shields on numerous occasions.

Apples and oranges. The IDF use was to prevent death. Hamas does it to cause death.

... you saying then you approve of hamas using kids?

[dub]

2.1 Palestinian civilians used as “human shields”

In several cases Israeli soldiers also used civilians, including children, as “human shields”, endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties or objects suspected of being booby-trapped. Soldiers also took position and launched attacks from and around inhabited houses, exposing local residents to the danger of attacks or of being caught in the crossfire.

...

However, contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants.

why do you two lie so much?

According to testimonies, in several cases Israeli forces also forced unarmed Palestinian civilian males (mostly adults but in two cases also children) to serve as “human shields”, including making them walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives. These practices are not new.Numerous such cases have been documented in recent years and the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that such practices contradict international law and prohibited them in October 2005.

[dub]

[quote name='dub' date='Jul 30 2009, 12:48 PM' post='447445'

the AI investigation has already shown that the IDF has used palestinian civilians as human shields on numerous occasions.

Apples and oranges. The IDF use was to prevent death. Hamas does it to cause death.

... you saying then you approve of hamas using kids?

IDF was using families' homes as sniper points and keeping them there to prevent death? death of who? themselves? certainly not the people they were using as human shields.

wow.

did you just, shamelessly, try to apologize for for war crimes?

you're on a roll.

Edited July 30, 2009 by dub

[tango]

QUOTE

2.1 Palestinian civilians used as “human shields”

In several cases Israeli soldiers also used civilians, including children, as “human shields”, endangering their lives by forcing them to remain in or near houses which they took over and used as military positions. Some were forced to carry out dangerous tasks such as inspecting properties or objects suspected of being booby-trapped. Soldiers also took position and launched attacks from and around inhabited houses, exposing local residents to the danger of attacks or of being caught in the crossfire.

...

However, contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters, nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been commandeered by militants.

QUOTE

According to testimonies, in several cases Israeli forces also forced unarmed Palestinian civilian males (mostly adults but in two cases also children) to serve as “human shields”, including making them walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives. These practices are not new.Numerous such cases have been documented in recent years and the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that such practices contradict international law and prohibited them in October 2005.

This seems very clear to me. Israel and those defending Israel perhaps need to pay attention to the truth of "Operation Cast Lead", including its name, and stop the ethnic slander of always saying Palestinians are lying.

It's pretty clear that Israel is lying to itself and the world. It's alos very clear to me that there is a vile form of racism operating in Israel that attempts to reduce Palestinians to subhuman level. I find these attitudes coming from Israel and its supporters to be abhorrent.

This was an aggressive attack to try to drive Gazans into the sea, with little care for civilians and children, imo.

[DogOnPorch]

This seems very clear to me. Israel and those defending Israel perhaps need to pay attention to the truth of "Operation Cast Lead", including its name, and stop the ethnic slander of always saying Palestinians are lying.

It's pretty clear that Israel is lying to itself and the world. It's alos very clear to me that there is a vile form of racism operating in Israel that attempts to reduce Palestinians to subhuman level. I find these attitudes coming from Israel and its supporters to be abhorrent.

This was an aggressive attack to try to drive Gazans into the sea, with little care for civilians and children, imo.

Meanwhile, in Gaza, Hamas leads the way with a group sing-along and free falafels.

[KrustyKidd]

what does this article have anything to do with all the video footage you claimed are lying around?

you failed to back up your claim: "With all the video footage of Hamas using human shields left right and centre"

are you going to back up your claim or are you going to ramble on and paste irrelevant articles?

You are confused as usual. I never contended anything about video in this portion of the discussion. I did however, give a link and this quote so you can see that Hamas as policy, uses their own people as human shields as reported by newsweek;

It was another of Hamas's homemade Qassam rockets being launched into Israel—and the mobile launchpad was smack in the middle of the four buildings, where every apartment was full, most of them with newly made refugees.

Hey Dub, just wondering, don't you think it is sort of dangerous to be firing those things unnecessarily in the middle of a residential area? It might backfire, return fire might happen. All sorts of dangers Hamas is putting their people in by storing and having these prohibited weapons where women and children congregate.

[dub]

You are confused as usual. I never contended anything about video in this portion of the discussion. I did however, give a link and this quote so you can see that Hamas as policy, uses their own people as human shields as reported by newsweek;

eh?

you replied with this:

(dub @ Jul 26 2009, 11:54 AM) *

which video footage? show us all.

have you gone to gaza and done a competent investigation?

krusty: AI seems to have missed what Newsweek found. More proof they are either incompetent or biased.

so in response to my question about your claim in regards to the 'all the video footage', you gave me something that did not explain your claim to the video footage.

so it's you who is confused and cannot even keep up with what you're saying.

so yes. here is another chance for you to show all the video proof from the gaza war that AI missed.

[Bonam]

so in response to my question about your claim in regards to the 'all the video footage', you gave me something that did not explain your claim to the video footage.

so it's you who is confused and cannot even keep up with what you're saying.

so yes. here is another chance for you to show all the video proof from the gaza war that AI missed.

Your ability to completely disregard any evidence presented is truly amazing. Who the heck cares if it's video footage or a written article? Why don't you actually try reading and understanding the excerpts Krusty posted. Trying to bog down the conversation with irrelevant tangents when the issues and the evidence in question are posted clearly.

This was an aggressive attack to try to drive Gazans into the sea

Honestly, you should just stop posting on this topic. Do you really think Israel would have any trouble driving the Gazans "into the sea" if they wanted to? Your claims are absolutely ridiculous.

[DogOnPorch]

The heat is getting to his brain.

[KrustyKidd]

eh?

you replied with this:

so in response to my question about your claim in regards to the 'all the video footage', you gave me something that did not explain your claim to the video footage.

so it's you who is confused and cannot even keep up with what you're saying.

so yes. here is another chance for you to show all the video proof from the gaza war that AI missed.

I was responding to this comment

have you gone to gaza and done a competent investigation?

That I did not comment nor post any video should have alerted you to the possibility that I wasn't talking about nor posting a vid. i did post a story by Newsweek thoughg. Why don't you read it to see how Hamas uses it's own population as a human shield rather than wallow in stupidity disguised as outrage born of confusion.

[dub]

I was responding to this comment

That I did not comment nor post any video should have alerted you to the possibility that I wasn't talking about nor posting a vid. i did post a story by Newsweek thoughg. Why don't you read it to see how Hamas uses it's own population as a human shield rather than wallow in stupidity disguised as outrage born of confusion.

you quoted the question about the video footage.

fine. whatever. lets pretend that you weren't trying to answer that question.

where is dancer, the guy who makes shit up?

where is all the video footage coming out of gaza that counters AI's investigation and report?

all he's done is post a couple of outdated, short clips from who knows where.

where is all this video footage?

[tango]

Honestly, you should just stop posting on this topic. Do you really think Israel would have any trouble driving the Gazans "into the sea" if they wanted to? Your claims are absolutely ridiculous.

The US could blow up the world if they wanted. What's your point?

Israel would hardly be so blatant due to international scorn and retribution.

As it is, they've lost a lot of support.

[DogOnPorch]

The US could blow up the world if they wanted. What's your point?

Israel would hardly be so blatant due to international scorn and retribution.

As it is, they've lost a lot of support.

You can find it on a map....right?

[M.Dancer]

maybe one day we'll get to the point where you'll stop using baseless allegations and start dealing with proven allegations to talk about this conflict.

I thought you said you're not an apologist for war crimes? ANd here you are.....apologising, denying....

I suppose it's only the alledges jooish war crimes that make you tingle...

[M.Dancer]

yep.

it's all made up.

dancer has taken a new job.

I conclude your aren't smart enough to see the bias and fabrication or you simply approve of it.

[dub]

I thought you said you're not an apologist for war crimes? ANd here you are.....apologising, denying....

I suppose it's only the alledges jooish war crimes that make you tingle...

i'm against all war crimes.

i have not apologized for any of hamas' war crimes that have been outlined by amnesty international's investigation and report. so you are, once again, lying.

i have no problem accepting that both sides have committed war crimes.

you, on the other hand, want to deny and apologize for israel's while trying to create and add onto what amnesty has already reported about hamas' war crimes.

you are a biased son of a bitch who wouldn't know objective opinion if it smacked you across the face.

[DogOnPorch]

i'm against all war crimes.

i have not apologized for any of hamas' war crimes that have been outlined by amnesty international's investigation and report. so you are, once again, lying.

i have no problem accepting that both sides have committed war crimes.

you, on the other hand, want to deny and apologize for israel's while trying to create and add onto what amnesty has already reported about hamas' war crimes.

you are a biased son of a bitch who wouldn't know objective opinion if it smacked you across the face.

When they give you SS men tatoos, do they still do it in the armpit?

[M.Dancer]

i'm against all war crimes.

i have not apologized for any of hamas' war crimes that have been outlined by amnesty international's investigation and report. so you are, once again, lying.

You are a honest as an arctic winter's day is long. When did I put any credence in anythingthat terrorist enabler AI publishes?

You deny Hamas is guilty, you and AI are like two rotten peas in a pod.

[dub]

You are a honest as an arctic winter's day is long. When did I put any credence in anythingthat terrorist enabler AI publishes?

You deny Hamas is guilty, you and AI are like two rotten peas in a pod.

what the hell is wrong with you? do you have some mental block?

i just told you that i agree with amnesty's report on hamas' war crimes in the latest gaza attack which consisted of hamas shooting rockets indiscriminatory. i just don't agree with your allegations (and your pathetic youtube evidence from 2006), because AI investigated the allegations of hamas using civilians as human shield and found that the allegations were false. however, the allegations of the IDF using civilians as human shields turned out to be correct.

so why are you dishonest and making things up?

Edited July 31, 2009 by dub

[M.Dancer]

so why are you dishonest and making things up?

I'm not making anything up. Arctic days are very short. AI is a crock and Hamas used human shields from day one. They admit it, you don't.