And another thing about that Jack Layton

[maplesyrup]

The NDP's new leader Jack Layton , has united Canada's New Democrats.

Contrast Layton's performance, bringing back former NDP leader Ed Broadbent, to run as part of Jack's team, in the coming election with:

1 - the Liberals, and all their party infighting between the Chretien and the Martin forces, the Sheila Copps situation, and Mr Democratic Deficit appointing candidates like Ujjal Dosanjh, Shirley Chan, Emmerson from Canfor, and now probably Dave Haggard from the IWA.

2 - the Conservatives, where former Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney is now publically backing Cons leader Stephen Harper. Harper who previously quit the Conservative party, because he could not stand Mulroney's policies, has now probably received the "kiss of death" from this endorsement. And also former Conservative Prime Minister Joe Clark, who has told Canadians that he supports Paul Martin over Stephen Harper for prime minister, and also that Clark backs former Conservative MP John Herron, who is now running as a Liberal.

Keeping a political party united is key to election success, and Jack Layton is exhibiting all the characteristics of a winner.

[willy]

The NDP's new leader Jack Layton , has united Canada's New Democrats.

Mr Democratic Deficit appointing candidates like Ujjal Dosanjh, Shirley Chan, Emmerson from Canfor, and now probably Dave Haggard from the IWA.

Forgive me for pointing this out but Martin has appointed life long NDP members. How is this Layton uniting the NDP? And one other little point. The Green party growth is directly related to the split between the environmental movement and the labour movement. Not all that united.

As for the Conservative unity:

Clark and Orchard are on there own. The Conservative movement is united. Clark has hurt feelings because he lost his battle to take out the western movement. Orchard should have been NDP to start. Can you please take him. We don't want him. Really you can have him.

The Liberals are close to civil war. So for the first time Maplesyrup we agree on one single point.

[August1991]

Wasn't Ujjal Dosanjh the last NDP Premier in BC? And now he's supporting PM PM (and not Jack Layton)?

Quod Deus vult perdere dementat prius.

[willy]

Ujjal Dosanjh, Shirley Chan, Dave Haggard were all NDP.

I don't know about Chan but Dosanjh and Haggard have been life long NDP supporters, activists and in the case of Dosanjh even primier. In India Dosanjh was also a member of the commununist party.

Interesting "all star team" for the liberals.

[Hjalmar]

I don't know much about Jack Layton but if anyone would like to destroy our country I suggest they vote for the NDP

who successfully destroyed Ontario [it cost Ontario taxpayers $12 billion to educate Bob Rae] and BC.where they increased the provincial debt from $13 billion to $35 billion over a 10 year period. It will take both these provinces a generation to overcome this setback.

Why are you supporting the NDP maplesyrup? Would you like to see our children and grandchildren paying for the gross mismanagement of the NDP?

The little I know about Jack Layton is all negative. First of all he is living in the past. You can't influence [he will never be leading] a country with policies from the 50's. He actually thinks he's going to ride to victory with the support of the labour union movement and the mafia. People like Tony Blair who is leading the left in Britain has recognized that aligning his party with labour unions is more of a liability than an asset in this day and age and he promptly severed all connections. But I doubt Jack Layton has the intelligence to recognize that. Do you know what this mans IQ is maplesyrup? If he had any say over affairs in our country the first thing to happen would be that our military would be decimated overnight leaving us with no defence and the USA would have no choice but to take over our country in order to protect the North American continent from terrorists.

[BigGunner]

and BC.where they increased the provincial debt from $13 billion to $35 billion over a 10 year period.

Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberals increased BC's debt by over $10 billion in less than 4 years..

George W. Bush turned a trillion dollar surplus into a $500 billion deficit...he for the 1st time ever in American history has increased their debt to $7 trillion, and lost almost 3 million jobs while at the helm.

Brian Mulroney and the last conservative government passed some of the country's largest deficits, increased taxes, had big, bloated, and patronage filled government.

Reality is that conservatives are fiscally incompetent and corrupt.

[willy]

BG,

Gordon Campbell, has now the fastest growing economy in Canada and a balanced budget. That is a real balanced budget with generally accepted accounting principles at work.

Bush is at war and modern war is very expensive. The cost of the tech bubble and the uncertainty of war has been hard on the US economy. It is turning around, business to business spending is way up this quarter and the US dollar is starting to strengthen again.

Mulroney had to fix Liberal problems. He brought us free trade and the GST. Two major reasons the Liberals were able to bring in a balance budget. (Other than offloading responsibility onto the provinces)

Your arguments are weak and not based in sound economic thinking. But the left will always think they can create jobs. Thanks for your emotional but not logical thinking.

[maplesyrup]

But I doubt Jack Layton has the intelligence to recognize that.   Do you know what this mans IQ is maplesyrup?

Hjalmar.....actually Dr Jack Layton has a PhD. In economics, I believe.

Jack has not only brought a fresh face to the NDP, he has brought the federal NDP into the 21st century.

Jack has moved the NDP to the mainstream of Canadian society. Jack is a follower of Tommy Douglas, the man who brought Canadians healthcare, and has no use for deficit financing. Jack was on a television station in BC on Friday evening, and stated that he believes in balanced budgets.

I think most Canadians will relate to Jack and what he represents, once they get to know him during the election campaign.

[BigGunner]

BG,

Gordon Campbell, has now the fastest growing economy in Canada and a balanced budget. That is a real balanced budget with generally accepted accounting principles at work.

Bush is at war and modern war is very expensive. The cost of the tech bubble and the uncertainty of war has been hard on the US economy. It is turning around, business to business spending is way up this quarter and the US dollar is starting to strengthen again.

Mulroney had to fix Liberal problems. He brought us free trade and the GST. Two major reasons the Liberals were able to bring in a balance budget. (Other than offloading responsibility onto the provinces)

Your arguments are weak and not based in sound economic thinking. But the left will always think they can create jobs. Thanks for your emotional but not logical thinking.

Gordon Campbell's "balanced" budget was done so using tax increases on the poor; and BC's economy is not the fastest growing in Canada - that is Liberal propaganda...like the BC Rail deal that 'is not privitization' but is supposed to last a thousand years. And the laws passed to enforce GAAP budgeting rules were in fact passed by the NDP - not the liberals.

Bush is in a war with a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11...but he conspired to invade Iraq as soon as he was in the white house. Bush and his war-lovers ignored crutial evidence that might have prevented 9/11, and then promptly didn't send enough troops to get the job done. It wasn't as if they were liberating a country in Europe in 1944, Iraqis hate Americans.

Bush also handed out massive tax cuts to the rich, and took money from everyone else...he gave tax breaks to corporations to outsource jobs to foreign companies.

I am no Liberal supporter, but the Mulroney conservatives created their own problems. Trying to ram Meech Lake down everyones throat, the GST, ballooning decifits and debt, and a government senior management loaded with patronage appointees. I'm no fan of the Liberals, but they cleaned up Mulroney's mess.

That free trade agreement you refer to is why today, BC exports raw logs. Some deal eh?

My arguments are based in fact, and just because you don't like them or don't believe them, does not make them false.

Conservatives have no understanding of hard work and sacrifice. They grow up in a life of privalege and are taught greed and selfishness...this is why today they attempt to justify tax cuts for the rich, while imposing new taxes, user fees on the rest of us Real Canadians.

[willy]

Conservatives have no understanding of hard work and sacrifice. They grow up in a life of privalege and are taught greed and selfishness...this is why today they attempt to justify tax cuts for the rich, while imposing new taxes, user fees on the rest of us Real Canadians.

Conservatives are of every age class, ethnic background, religious affiliation, socio economic group and gender.

Our goal is to make more resources for everyone, not share pieces of a small pie.

Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, freedom of religion, and self determination. We also believe in a strong world role for Canada, access to health care, keeping violent criminals off the streets and helping those who can not help themselves.

Taxes are a mean and not an ends. If taxes are inhibiting the growth of job opportunities they should be cut.

Conservatives are just socialists with a reality check. We know government can't fix all problems. We know that as hard as we try, some people will still struggle. The goal of any government should be to eliminate barriers to opportunities, support those who can not support themselves and hold people accountable for injustice.

BG, as for your rhetoric. You need to stop drinking your own bath water. Right now 29% of Canadians support the Conservative Party. This number is likely to grow. We are real Canadians and we may be your next government.

[BigGunner]

...not at 29% they won't.

At 29%, Conservatives are STILL 7.5 points back of thier combined 2000 tally.

And here is the glitch...

In the west, where the Alliance gained its seats from, they are now well behind in support levels.

Conservatives are certainly more competitive in Ontario, but are well off a massive breakthrough. In Quebec, the other large province with a lot of seats, the Conservatives are BEHIND the NDP in 4th place.

In BC, where the Alliance got 27 seats and 50% of the vote, they are now in third place behind the NDP.

[falling leaf]

BigGunner

Jack is a follower of Tommy Douglas, the man who brought Canadians healthcare, and has no use for deficit financing. Jack was on a television station in BC on Friday evening, and stated that he believes in balanced budgets.

Tommy Douglas was a fine gentlemen and a great Canadian.

I had the pleasure of knowing him as a family friend for over 30 years. He attend family dinners, picnics , I also had the pleasure of attending a Burns night dinner where he was guest speaker . I sat beside him as he recited Burns poetry with a passion I have never seen before, by memory, as he also did with his speeches.

If Tommy Douglas was here today he would not be supporting Jack Layton nor the NDP party.

Tommy and I sat one night and talked about his CCF days and the NDP party. His dreams for our country and the NDP are not what the party has become today.

He would leave the NDP and join the Conservative Party because he was a responsible person and a clear visionary.

[BigGunner]

BigGunner

Jack is a follower of Tommy Douglas, the man who brought Canadians healthcare, and has no use for deficit financing. Jack was on a television station in BC on Friday evening, and stated that he believes in balanced budgets.

Tommy Douglas was a fine gentlemen and a great Canadian.

I had the pleasure of knowing him as a family friend for over 30 years. He attend family dinners, picnics , I also had the pleasure of attending a Burns night dinner where he was guest speaker . I sat beside him as he recited Burns poetry with a passion I have never seen before, by memory, as he also did with his speeches.

If Tommy Douglas was here today he would not be supporting Jack Layton nor the NDP party.

Tommy and I sat one night and talked about his CCF days and the NDP party. His dreams for our country and the NDP are not what the party has become today.

He would leave the NDP and join the Conservative Party because he was a responsible person and a clear visionary.

Well that wasn't my quote, but I'll respond anyway...

Tommy Douglas is not here to answer your idiotic comment though. He is most certainly rolling in his grave at the way successive Liberal and Conservatives have destroyed the healthcare dream that he had....but he is smiling down on his former party at the way they have championed the cause of peace, stood up for minority rights, and put people ahead of profit.

This is a concept that is lost on the politics of greed and hate by Liberals and Conservatives.

[Hjalmar]

BG

This is a concept that is lost on the politics of greed and hate by Liberals and Conservatives.

Neither you, nor the party you support, are in a position to talk about greed or hate, a concept that spawns from the very party you support, namely the NDP/Labour union movement. I'll add another one "selfishness" and you have the NDP/Labour Unions in a nutshell.

[willy]

He is most certainly rolling in his grave at the way successive Liberal and Conservatives and Conservatives have destroyed the healthcare dream that he had

BG have you ever noticed that when the NDP have been in power in provincial governments they have done nothing to save your beloved vision of healthcare. They did however inflate wages of healthcare workers (cleaners and cooks) to only add more burdens to a system. They can pay more using my tax dollars but they fix nothing.

I did notice during the NDP 10 year run in BC they chased out a number of businesses. Alcan and Finning are to major companies that Quebec and Alberta now benefit from. In BC at the beginning of the NDP we also had a billion dollar mining industry and today we have none.

This was and is a tragedy to communities and families where these businesses operated.

The big growth in the NDP era was tourism. I would also like to point out most tourist jobs are low paying service industry jobs. Good job NDP for the real Canadian workers. That is right they managed to limit employment options and drive down wages for the bottom end of the curve.

There is nothing compassionate about the NDP political policies, and they were not a model of ethics either. Call in and ask Moe why he is a reporter now. The BC NDP were the best argument for less government.

[falling leaf]

BG

Jack Layton supported the legalization of marijuana.

Tommy Douglas would not have done so , He would have thought about the children of this country first.

Jack Layton supported same sex marriages .

Tommy Douglas would never have done that. He was a very religious man .

Tommy Douglas would roll over in his grave if knew where the NDP were today.

He would have likely started a new party.

I knew him well , and my best guess would be that he would call the new party Canadian Democratic Reform.

I know Tommy Douglas was a very honest man.

He would not like the greed , hate and selfishness of most left leaning Canadians today . In his mind it would not harmonize with the compassion he had for others.

I don't like the idea of Jack Layton associating his name with that of Tommy Douglas. If Tommy Douglas was here today he would agree with me.

[BigGunner]

BG

Jack Layton supported the legalization of marijuana.

Tommy Douglas would not have done so , He would have thought about the children of this country first.

Jack Layton supported same sex marriages .

Tommy Douglas would never have done that. He was a very religious man .

Tommy Douglas would roll over in his grave if knew where the NDP were today.

He would have likely started a new party.

I knew him well , and my best guess would be that he would call the new party Canadian Democratic Reform.

I know Tommy Douglas was a very honest man.

He would not like the greed , hate and selfishness of most left leaning Canadians today . In his mind it would not harmonize with the compassion he had for others.

I don't like the idea of Jack Layton associating his name with that of Tommy Douglas. If Tommy Douglas was here today he would agree with me.

Tommy Douglas was certainly a man who was thinking of children, and he would be outraged to no end at the child poverty and homelessness that has expanded dramatically at the hands of greedy Liberal and Conservative politicians..

Tommy Douglas was a very religious man, but then so is Archbiship Desmond Tutu, who supports gays, lesbians, blacks, whites, (everyone). True Christians preach love and unity, not hate and segregation. In the past, several 'christian' leaders have used the bible in some idiotic defence of segregation, slavery, and the opposition of letting women vote - or owning property...something that women in this country were only granted less than 100 years ago...rights that are still not applicable in some conservative islamic states.

Tommy Douglas was opposed to greed and hatred no matter who spouted those moronic views...those from the left, or those on the right.

Few people have the integrity and compassion that Tommy Douglas had, but if we had more politicians like Tommy, then Canada would be a far better place.

[Black Dog]

He would not like the greed , hate and selfishness of most left leaning Canadians today..

WOOSH! That's the sound of whatever credibility you might have had flying out the window.

Ditto:

Neither you, nor the party you support, are in a position to talk about greed or hate, a concept that spawns from the very party you support, namely the NDP/Labour union movement. I'll add another one "selfishness" and you have the NDP/Labour Unions in a nutshell.

[Alliance Fanatic]

Tommy Douglas would'nt be welcome in the New Democrats today, and would be considered a nazi. Tommy Douglas was socially conservative on many issues, and was pro-life, and was for the family and working man. Douglas was a compassionate man, the New Democrats idea of compassion today is to give a partial birth abortion to a 15 year old girl, and allow NAMBLA to produce materials on man boy love.

[Alliance Fanatic]

The fact is that christianity does consider homosexuality a deviant behavior. Any person who says it is'nt is lying. Most christians do love homosexuals, no true christian has ever attacked gays, but at the same time christians realize that gays do have problems with regards to their health and social well being.

Martin Luther King would have been considered a compassionate man in the 60's, but the left would have hated him because he made a reference to the lord in his "I have a dream speech". New Democrats also want to basically ban religion from nearly every aspect of Canadian life.

How is it that the left wing always complains of "Christian bigotry", yet when Christians are enslaved in Sudan, and Christians are attacked by gay extremists no body cares.

[BigGunner]

Tommy Douglas would'nt be welcome in the New Democrats today, and would be considered a nazi. Tommy Douglas was socially conservative on many issues, and was pro-life, and was for the family and working man. Douglas was a compassionate man, the New Democrats idea of compassion today is to give a partial birth abortion to a 15 year old girl, and allow NAMBLA to produce materials on man boy love.

Ok genius, provide us with links and evidence that the NDP has somehow promoted or supported the pro-paedophile NAMBLA group.

You obviously haven't learned that free speech does NOT include the right to commit libel and slander, or post defamitory comments.

Oh yes, your comments have been reported to the admin. (if he hasn't already read them).

[udawg]

The fact is that christianity does consider homosexuality a deviant behavior. Any person who says it is'nt is lying.

Christianity? Another one of those "single, monolithic entities", I believe someone here said.

"Christianity" does not consider anything. Individual Christians may consider homosexuality a deviant behaviour, it may even be a majority of individual Christians believe that. But do not label that under the heading of "Christianity believes..."

And anyway, I disagree with your statement at the fundamental level. Homosexuals are different, but so are people with short hair compared to long, women compared to men, and miniskirt-wearers compared to pantsuit-ers. Some people undoubtedly consider it deviant, but many, (most?) accept it as 'just the way it is'.

And I suspect you're not too involved in your church (if you have one), or you wouldn't venture to make a statement like that on behalf of the other several million people of your faith.

[willy]

Christianity does have a centrality.

We are all deserving of God’s displeasure, but that is okay because he loves us so much he sent his son to die for us that we might be able to live in his presence now and forever.

The beginning part of the statement is most relevant to this conversation. Defining what makes each one of us sinful is not relevant to the answer in Christianity. This does not set homosexuals apart from anyone else. Christians would say that we all do need God and anything less would fall short of our purpose.

This discussion should probably be under Religion and Politics but when people start talking about Christian theology I hope they know what they are talking about because the nuances and detail can be very important to the outcome.

For non Christians it is safe to say that God in the Christian view doesn’t accept any sin but it is not up to us to change but to follow Christ and the spirit changes us. Christ died for the propitiation of sin and for our redemption.

I am happy to discuss religion more but it should be done under something other than a topic about Jack Layton.

[August1991]

I am happy to discuss religion more but it should be done under something other than a topic about Jack Layton.

I answered a thread in Religion/Politics and considered abortion. If you want, start a thread about gays. I'll answer. I live in Montréal and I believe civilization means understanding. I am not "parti pris".

[falling leaf]

To all reading this thread

(Alliance Fanatic @ Apr 26 2004, 08:24 PM)

Tommy Douglas would'nt be welcome in the New Democrats today, and would be considered a nazi. Tommy Douglas was socially conservative on many issues, and was pro-life, and was for the family and working man. Douglas was a compassionate man, the New Democrats idea of compassion today is to give a partial birth abortion to a 15 year old girl, and allow NAMBLA to produce materials on man boy love. 

Tommy Douglas was no nazi. Its not that he would'nt be welcomed by the NDP , He just would not like way they do things today!

Yes he was prolife,was a great family man and a very hard worker, with compassion for his country.

But like I have said before , He would have left the NDP party.