Gay is not norrmal

[canfan]

No. I led you down the garden path so that the point would be made more clearly. For the unintelligent, the best way to make them understand something is for them to experience it first hand. If you had some trouble following the fashion in which I have mopped the floor with you, that's your issue. However the issue at hadn still applies and you can't red-herring your lack of retort by trying to attack my methods instead of actually making an argument.

Another favourite internet tactic: declaring victory without saying anything else. I pointed out the inconsistency in your original argument yet you ignore it. For the unintelligent the best way to make a point is to actually make your point instead of undermining your arguments with inconsistent statements and moving the goalposts. I only include the unintelligent comment because it appears that's how you like to argue: if someone disagrees they must be unintelligent. Never mind that you know nothing about me.

The key issue here is that I should have the right to say things, even unpopular things, about gays or any other "distinct group". That's how the thread started. And it was a perfect launching pad for the discussion. I know it may have been a bit complex for you.

The only thing "complex" about your argument is how you've twisted your original inconsistent statements into a declaration of victory about how you've shown that people can't say things against gays without being hauled in front of a tribunal. Even though you've said these things and haven't been hauled in front of a tribunal.

But you can't make the argument that our country is a safe place for people of all beliefs to speak freely, because in actual real world examples, people are being punished for speaking their minds by contradicting left wing dogma.

THAT is fascism.

I hear people speak freely on these subjects all the time. But feel free to continue to ignore reality just because a few cases that you think inappropriate have been started.

good one. but i never said i understand it...it's the left that has claim on that one

If you don't understand it then how can you say it's abnormal?

[g_bambino]

Someone being Gay happens in the first three months of the pregnancy, when the chromosomes get mixed up.

[Smallc]

From what I've read, there is some evidence that people are more likely to be gay because of either genetic or hormonal factors. There is something about it that is inborn...in men. For women (again, from what I've read so far, it's not inborn, or less so).

[g_bambino]

From what I've read, there is some evidence that people are more likely to be gay because of either genetic or hormonal factors. There is something about it that is inborn...in men. For women (again, from what I've read so far, it's not inborn, or less so).

Well, from what I've read, watched, and experienced, it seems that everyone's all over the place on what "causes" someone to be gay; for instance, it makes absolutely no sense why men have gayness born into them, while women can't, if it were even possible for sexual preferences to be pre-programmed in utero. Frankly, I think it's a futile effort, chasing, as these scientists and psychologists are, a ghost. Human sexuality is a broad spectrum on which every single person falls somewhere in between, but never at, the two extremes of total hetero- and homosexuality, depending on an almost infinitely complex set of factors, including most definitely unique personal life experiences and possibly biology. Those on the hunt for the "gay gene" have pre-supposed, however, that there are only two sexual categories in which humans can be classified: gay or straight, and in doing so they have not only from the outset tainted their experiments with personal bias, but they're also doing nothing but further entrench these manufactured and divisive categories. I can only hope that one day we'll all finally be free of these Victorian-era taxonomy hangovers.

[Smallc]

I think that's very true. Hormonal factors though would make some sense as a determinate, if they really do have an affect.

[g_bambino]

I think that's very true. Hormonal factors though would make some sense as a determinate, if they really do have an affect.

Horomes may well be a factor. But, how are we to know that hormone production isn't affected by thought, rather than the other way around, in the same sense that adrenaline is released when we perceive a threat? It's all theory, of course.

_{[ed. for sp.]}

Edited June 7, 2009 by g_bambino

[Smallc]

We really don't know, so yes, it's all theory in any direction (though I believe the first comprehensive study is going on as we speak). What really matters is that they exist I suppose...and that they aren't going away, no matter how normal or abnormal each of us thinks that they are.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Smallc

[Shady]

I think that's very true. Hormonal factors though would make some sense as a determinate, if they really do have an affect.

I don't think medical science is too far off from figure it out. And I'm sure in the not so distant future, a treatment will researched and produced to correct such problems.

[g_bambino]

I don't think medical science is too far off from figure it out. And I'm sure in the not so distant future, a treatment will researched and produced to correct such problems.

You see, Smallc, what I mean by no good coming of these "scientific" investigations?

[August1991]

Normal is the norm.

Gay is not the norm. It is abnormal.

And is speaking English the norm too?

Or what about being right-handed. That's the norm too - except that about 10% of the population are left-handed. They're not normal.

Or how about blue-eyes? (Not the norm.) Jerry, what colour are your eyes?

----

I flipped through this thread and I can't believe it has lasted as long as it has. IMV, we should all simply say: Live and let live - if our opposite agrees.

The key issue here is that I should have the right to say things, even unpopular things, about gays or any other "distinct group". That's how the thread started. And it was a perfect launching pad for the discussion. I know it may have been a bit complex for you.

Good point. This forum is good because you can post nonsense and see what happens. I too have posted some dumb things on this forum. It happens.

[jdobbin]

I don't think medical science is too far off from figure it out. And I'm sure in the not so distant future, a treatment will researched and produced to correct such problems.

And maybe they can figure out how to make all people white too since any other colour is well, not normal.

[Oleg Bach]

And maybe they can figure out how to make all people white too since any other colour is well, not normal.

Makes me wonder...why so much interest in the "abnormal" - and no interest in the normal - that's just not normal!

[Sabre Rider]

I don't think medical science is too far off from figure it out. And I'm sure in the not so distant future, a treatment will researched and produced to correct such problems.

Like the treatment used in an attempted to "cure" my left-handedness back in grade school during the mid-60's? That "treatment" consisted of verbal ridicule in front my grade one classmate (who were encouraged to rat out and ridicule lefties), being rapped across the knuckles and being forced to hold my left arm high in the air in class during printing practice. Such "enlightened" and "humane" treatments were the norm back then in the Vancouver School System. They came to a screeching stop when my mother went down to the school and raised merry hell.

Given your disbelief and scorn of scientific method in regards to Evolution, I find your faith in science finding a "cure" for homosexuality rather hypocritical and not a little distrubing. Something tells me you would be all in favour of and would be more then willing to apply the same type of "cure" for homosexuality and once was used to "cure" me of my left-handedness.

While I am neither a homosexual nor have any interested in partaking in the homosexual lifestyle, I have no problem with it and say live and let live. For the majority of homosexuals, they live a pretty normal life once you get over their choice of lover.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Sabre Rider

[jdobbin]

Makes me wonder...why so much interest in the "abnormal" - and no interest in the normal - that's just not normal!

Maybe one day you will get your white, straight world. I'm sure you would find some other aspect to dislike about others.

[Oleg Bach]

Like the treatment used in an attempted to "cure" my left-handedness back in grade school during the mid-60's? That "treatment" consisted of verbal ridicule in front my grade one classmate (who were encouraged to rat out and ridicule lefties), being rapped across the knuckles and being forced to hold my left arm high in the air in class during printing practice. Such "enlightened" and "humane" treatments were the norm back then in the Vancouver School System. They came to a screeching stop when my mother went down to the school and raised merry hell.

Given your disbelief and scorn of scientific method in regards to Evolution, I find your faith in science finding a "cure" for homosexuality rather hypocritical and not a little distrubing. Something tells me you would be all in favour of and would be more then willing to apply the same type of "cure" for homosexuality and once was used to "cure" me of my left-handedness.

While I am neither a homosexual nor have any interested in partaking in the homosexual lifestyle, I have no problem with it and say live and let live. For the majority of homosexuals, they live a pretty normal life once you get over their choice of lover.

I don't think there is a lot of love involved...these people are superfical and they will trade in their "partner" for a pretty young man at the drop of a hate - It's the most selfish and self centered "lifestyle" that I have ever witnessed.

[Sabre Rider]

I don't think there is a lot of love involved...these people are superfical and they will trade in their "partner" for a pretty young man at the drop of a hate - It's the most selfish and self centered "lifestyle" that I have ever witnessed.

And what about the normal and healthy heterosexual male who drops his wife and family in favour of some sweet young thing eh? That seems to be pretty normal as well. I would say what you are pointing out is more of a flaw or rather a racial survival trait that permeates the entire male population of our species, be they straight, gay or bi. Women aren't immune to this either, although they are generally not as quick to jump as men.

A single heterosexual male would be just as promiscuous as his homosexual counterpart if given the chance. About the only thing that holds back heterosexual male promiscuity is that most heterosexual women ain't into playing that game. When it comes to dropping partners and grabbing the next available pretty young thing, both straights and gays are on par with each other.

[Sabre Rider]

Maybe one day you will get your white, straight world. I'm sure you would find some other aspect to dislike about others.

May God (whichever Skydaddy you happen to believe in, personally I worship the Great God of Rye) help us if ever that evil day comes about.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Sabre Rider

[Oleg Bach]

May God (whichever Skydaddy you happen to believe in, personally I worship the Great God of Rye) help us if ever that evil day comes about.

Rye can open the wrong door and let all sorts of trash enter your pickled head..

[Smallc]

You see, Smallc, what I mean by no good coming of these "scientific" investigations?

Yes, I understand now.

[Oleg Bach]

"not that there is anything wrong with it" - but we are NOT gay....

[sharkman]

This old man who is an old friend of the family had a troubled life(it turned out) and tried to commit suicide. It was not successful, and he told me later that he became gay early in life through repeated sexual abuse from a foster mom and he was gay most of his life, but did not accept it, got married and raised 3 girls. It was later in life, late 60's I think, when the attempted suicide occurred. It was after this attempt that he found a doctor who prescribed a drug that neutralized his gay tendencies, and he was as happy as a clam. I never pressed him for details, he just told me this much freely. If a drug can help someone be straight, how can it be something you're born with?

And what about all of these people who become gay through some abuse like this, or suddenly turn gay in mid life?

Edited June 7, 2009 by sharkman

[g_bambino]

And what about all of these people who become gay through some abuse like this, or suddenly turn gay in mid life?

By my opinion - and it is merely that - many of those who "become" gay do so because there isn't much of a choice. As I mentioned in a previous post, our society has polarized sexuality so that now one only has two options to pick from: gay or straight. As nobody exists at either extreme and everyone falls somewhere in between - meaning we all have a variety of thoughts, desires, curiosities, experiments, & etc. throughout our lives - people are bound to feel confused and pressured into choosing one side or the other. In either case, though, something's going to be repressed, whether those feelings be homosexual or heterosexual, and repressing anything ain't gonna turn out well.

[sharkman]

Though I don't fully agree with you, I think there can be pressure from counsellors, doctors, and other realms where gay propaganda is preached, since it is such a popular theory these days.

[Topaz]

You know once all society accepts being gay is by birth and not by choice, then maybe this group of people can have the same freedoms of being married in a MARRIAGE and not call it a civil union.

[JB Globe]

You seem to be saying that what makes being gay abnormal in your books is strictly numbers, right? That a small percentage of the population is gay, therefor being hetero is the norm. Numbers are the criteria in your mind as to what makes someone's identity normal or not.

Of course, this logic also means that on a religious level you're abnormal for being a Jew, and on a human level you're abnormal for being white.

Did you really think this one through all the way before you put up this post?