Mitary elements competing again'st each other for funds.

[Argus]

And we do. Over $20B a year now. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We have other priorities that need addressing. There is only so much money.

Yes, we need to spend more money so people can work only 2 months of the year and relax the rest of the time.

[Argus]

The problem when any part of civilian SAR falls under military jurisdiction is that as soon as military cuts occur, SAR suffers immediately too. And sinse many oppose excessive military spending not on economic but rather on ethical grounds, the two become inseparable and entagnled. THi is where I think it would make sense from a political standpoint to ensure that al civilian responsibilities fall under civilian, not military, responsibilities.

The military needs hellicopters. But the military doesn't always have that need, say in peacetime, at base. It still has the helicopters, though. So it makes sense to use them for SAR when it comes up, right? The military also knows helicopters, knows how to maintain them. So the coast guard was put under the military. Seems to make sense to me. The problem is that the military, and thus the coast guard, is underfunded. Lazy politicians who only have an eye to immediate political expediency, and fat, comfortable civilians who neither know nor care about anything beyond their own immediate sense of personal fulfilment have kept the military on a starvation diet for decades. But creating an independant outfit wouldn't change that. It'd still be underfunded, because the people in Toronto and Montreal and Quebec city don't care about stuff like that. They care about arts programs and the CBC and low income housing for people who don't want to work for a living.

If we take the war in Afghanistan, for example, instead of sending in so many Canadian troops, why could Canada not have asked Iran to go in while Canada would simply help financially to some degree. My reasoning here is that Iran is concerned about the Opium trade in the area too, and would would be interested in going in to clear that up, which would be in our interest too. Additionally, Persian culture is closer to Afghan culture in appearance.

Uh yeah, sure, if we want to see the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.

If we don't trust Iran, then why not a UN force under direct UN control but able to hire from anywhere in the world. So when the UN is at war in Afghanistan, it could then favour Pshta and other local language speakers over English or French speakers, but not under the responsibility of any government, but uner direct UN command, thus avoiding suspicions.

The problem with "hiring" people for a military is that mercenaries are generally neither well trained nor well disciplined, nor are they motivated. Also, if you hire locals, you hire people with uncertain loyalties.

[Argus]

True. What I was getting at though was that some Canadians oppose the military on either religious, philosophical, or moral gounds, if not totally, then at least in part, or if not in principle, then at least in the details of its officially defined mandate, etc.

You mean stupid people. Should we be changing policies and programs in order to please stupid people?

This being the case, some might oppose military spenidng but be wiling to increase civilian police spending.

Canadian police spending has been well below world averages for decades. Our cities have anywhere from 25% to 70% as many police as most other western nations.

France has 4 times as many police per capita as we do.

[Argus]

The measure of a man is not what he says, but what he does.

The UN is not what it should be. It is not what it can be. It is not what it once was.

Oh come on. You have an organization which is one-man, one-vote and made up, for the most part, of thoroughly corrupt, self-serving governments which maintain power by force; by torture and murder. You expect these governments to act nobly and honestly in their international dealings? Don't be absurd. People forget just what kind of people are in charge of the countries who make up the bulk of the UN's membership. If I form a club and ninety percent of the members are convicted, repeat rapists, what kind of an agenda do you expect the club to have? Oh by all means, I'll stick in a few priests to give it a veneer of integrity, but as the saying goes, you can't put a silk suit on a sow.

[Argus]

Exactly. Conservatives always want smaller government...except when it comes to growing the size of DND and Correctional Services of Canada.

What conservatives want is smaller bureaucracy. That does not mean we want to wait an hour to get an ambulance or three hours for a freaking fire truck. Nor does it mean we want to starve the military of necessary funds to do the job we set them to do. It takes X dollars to do a job. If you can't figure out how that money is being misspent then you pay that money or you change your demands for the job. That is elementary logic which seems to escape you and your kind.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I think we need to "rethink" the military. In my view we need to expand our military in the order of 500%. Young Canadians should have the opportunity to join the armed forces and acquire secondary education at no cost. I view this as a positive method of dealing with the recession.