A Hamas Parable

[myata]

Quote (from the link, graciously supplied by DoP):

"Progressive emigration through the 1920s and 1930s followed the League of Nations sanctioning of Balfour's statement, expanding the Jewish population by over 400,000 before the beginning of the Second World War.[2] "

Should we interpret the posting in the sense that the engineers of the project (who are also named in the article - the British and French colonizers) were fully justified by the "Mufti" (and by extension, the entire original population of the lands - correct?) future crimes? Or maybe, should the "Mufti" (and by extension, the entire original population of the lands) have made a better decision in throwing his support in the war, the resettlement project could / would have been recalled?

Whatever creative interpretation we chose, it's pretty obvious that this kind of "argumentation" can be used to justify any act by anybody anywhere. And it was, and is being used (Iraq war being the latest example). No surprises.

[DogOnPorch]

Quote (from the link, graciously supplied by DoP):

"Progressive emigration through the 1920s and 1930s followed the League of Nations sanctioning of Balfour's statement, expanding the Jewish population by over 400,000 before the beginning of the Second World War.[2] "

Should we interpret the posting in the sense that the engineers of the project (who are also named in the article - the British and French colonizers) were fully justified by the "Mufti" (and by extension, the entire original population of the lands - correct?) future crimes? Or maybe, should the "Mufti" (and by extension, the entire original population of the lands) have made a better decision in throwing his support in the war, the resettlement project could / would have been recalled?

Whatever creative interpretation we chose, it's pretty obvious that this kind of "argumentation" can be used to justify any act by anybody anywhere. And it was, and is being used (Iraq war being the latest example). No surprises.

I'm not saying Jews didn't come to British Palestine. What I am saying is that the Arabs came, too. Both sides sought to get a majority in this area or that prior to the partition.

Like a lot of lefties, you seem to have this vision of shepherds tending goats since Alexander's days, then evil Zionists showed up and shot the goats. But that's not the way it was. The Arabs had their own political agenda for the former Ottoman lands. The Mufti was their leader. When the British failed to cave into his terrorism, he sought help from the Nazis: Hitler, Himmler and Eichmann in particular. He got it.

This fellow figured big in the Holocaust. Even gased a load himself to see how it was done. Why on Earth would anyone support his dream which lives on in Fatah, Hamas and Hezbollah? Sympathy? Anti-Semitism? Anti-Americanism? Arafat was his nephew and took over from the Mufti in 1964. Even now, members of the al-Husseini clan hold powerful posts in the Muslim Brotherhood and various Muslim terrorist organizations.

[myata]

I'm not saying Jews didn't come to British Palestine. What I am saying is that the Arabs came, too. Both sides sought to get a majority in this area or that prior to the partition.

I see, those were just virgin lands void of any population altogether? You should hurry to claim your discovery as it seems to contradict current understanding of demographic situation in the region before British mandate (here's one: Wikipedia: Palestine; and very telling at that).

[DogOnPorch]

I see, those were just virgin lands void of any population altogether? You should hurry to claim your discovery as it seems to contradict current understanding of demographic situation in the region before British mandate (here's one: Wikipedia: Palestine; and very telling at that).

It wasn't depopulated. Don't put words into my mouth. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there. The Muslims were the "recent" conquerors. Just the standard claim from leftards is that Zionism = Bad while a movement with direct ties to the Third Reich and the Holocaust = Good.

My question to you is: Why...regardless of your heart-strings re: goat herders...are you supporting a Nazi organization such as Hamas? Spare me the 'I don't support Hamas/Hezbollah' crap, because that's exactly what you are doing. You're just better at putting a sugar coating on it than dub.

Edited May 27, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

OK, a start already. So, how many of them lived there for generations, as opposed to moving in the short period of a few decades, from 1890 to 1940? How did the demographic balance of the region change during that time? And through whose efforts? Again, statistics can help. Let us know if you need help taking in a few obvious and self explanatory numbers.

Much of it happened long before "Mufti" got to prominence. Or did he get to prominence in a part due to the immigration project? It's not as uncommon in our own, liberated and democratic lands, compare to raise of nationalist anti immigrant parties in Europe.

BTW congrats on another use of default "Nazi" argument, indeed speaks volumes about credibility of your point.

Edited May 27, 2009 by myata

[DogOnPorch]

OK, a start already. So, how many of them lived there for generations, as opposed to moving in the short period of a few decades, from 1890 to 1940? How did the demographic balance of the region change during that time? And through whose efforts? Again, statistics can help. Let us know if you need help taking in a few obvious and self explanatory numbers.

Much of it happened long before "Mufti" got to prominence. Or did he get to prominence in a part due to the immigration project? It's not as uncommon in our own, liberated and democratic lands, compare to raise of nationalist anti immigrant parties in Europe.

BTW congrats on another use of default "Nazi" argument, indeed speaks volumes about credibility of your point.

Do you deny Hamas's connection to the Third Reich? The Grand Mufti's?

[myata]

Is it possible to have a meaningful discussion with a broken cassette player?

Edited May 27, 2009 by myata

[DogOnPorch]

I'll take that as a 'No'. You don't believe Hamas has ties to classic Nazism and the Grand Mufti wasn't a member of the Schutzstaffel. This, of course, is delusional.

No worries. I do understand that is what some Hamas supporters must tell themselves in order to sleep at night.

[myata]

On this particular point, I have to agree, entirely. No, it isn't possible to have a meanigful discussion with a broken cassette player, nor would it serve any purpose.

[DogOnPorch]

On this particular point, I have to agree, entirely. No, it isn't possible to have a meanigful discussion with a broken cassette player, nor would it serve any purpose.

Kiss a terrorist for me.

[jbg]

It wasn't depopulated. Don't put words into my mouth. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there. The Muslims were the "recent" conquerors. Just the standard claim from leftards is that Zionism = Bad while a movement with direct ties to the Third Reich and the Holocaust = Good.

The posts you are responding to are those that feel guilty for any victory of civilized Westerners over "indigenous" savages.

[DogOnPorch]

The posts you are responding to are those that feel guilty for any victory of civilized Westerners over "indigenous" savages.

Oh, I know. But someone has to bitch slap them, eh? Actual history is optional to these folks.

The ol' Mufti...the hiptards don't want to hear about him. Gets in the way of their Zionists = Nazis fantasies.

[myata]

There we go... what a beautiful "discussion". Perfect mutual understanding, and no inconvenient facts in the way. Or, shall we put it this way, once the offending facts (objects, people, etc) have been dealt with, there'll be no obstacles to perfect understanding, (democracy, peace, etc).

[DogOnPorch]

As long as you support Hamas, Hezbollah or any other fascist terrorist group while rewriting history, I'll treat you like you deserve (sh!t). I don't like Nazis or their supporters. Get it through your head.

[myata]

And the drone (of the broken player) will go on. No amount of information, logic, numbers, statistics, arithmetics, figures, facts, etc, will be able to change the steady progress of the tune that goes on its x zillions round. Till it (we can always hope) runs out of battery.

"I am good;

You are bad;

I kick your bu..;

It's just too sad" (not really)....

The above is only illustrative of a certain pattern of thinking and does not apply to any particular individual(s).

[DogOnPorch]

And the drone (of the broken player) will go on. No amount of information, logic, numbers, statistics, arithmetics, figures, facts, etc, will be able to change the steady progress of the tune that goes on its x zillions round. Till it (we can always hope) runs out of battery.

"I am good;

You are bad;

I kick your bu..;

It's just too sad" (not really)....

The above is only illustrative of a certain pattern of thinking and does not apply to any particular individual(s).

To me, your just as much a broken record. A broken Hamas supporting record at that. My enemy.

[myata]

The logic of a broken cassette player goes on primarily like this (variations and/or deviations possible):

1. I'm right. There can be no question or doubt about that. Always.

2. "They" are saying that I'm wrong. They're wrong (see #1). There must be a simple way to prove it (to myself).

3. The simple way of proving it (to myself) is that "they" are enemy. Proves completely and without a shred of a doubt that I'm right and they are wrong.

4. Repeat ad infinitum (makes it lot more convincing)

[DogOnPorch]

The logic of a broken cassette player goes on primarily like this (variations and/or deviations possible):

1. I'm right. There can be no question or doubt about that. Always.

2. "They" are saying that I'm wrong. They're wrong (see #1). There must be a simple way to prove it (to myself).

3. The simple way of proving it (to myself) is that "they" are enemy. Proves completely and without a shred of a doubt that I'm right and they are wrong.

4. Repeat ad infinitum (makes it lot more convincing)

Make sure you donate. Rocket supplies are at a critical level post Gaza.

Edited May 28, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

Indeed a very unfortunate, but no less predictable for that, product of treating fellow human beings as "savages" unworthy to keep their own land. And we want, no demand, hugs and kisses in return. And we even show a very convincing example how to go about that (see Iraq). Our, broken player's, moral stance is invincible (not to mention logic or commonsense).

[jbg]

Indeed a very unfortunate, but no less predictable for that, product of treating fellow human beings as "savages" unworthy to keep their own land. And we want, no demand, hugs and kisses in return. And we even show a very convincing example how to go about that (see Iraq). Our, broken player's, moral stance is invincible (not to mention logic or commonsense).

Maybe if the Gazans had gone about seeking economic development, and trade relations, rather than using (allegedly) limited funds to obtain very dangerous weapons people wouldn't call them savages.

[myata]

I know, these "people" (why being shy, all of a sudden?) particularly excel in drawing laws, moral codes and guideleness, though only for others. Their own acts being true and right and therefore above all morality. Because they themselves define true, right and moral. Now, it's really easy to reconcile the otherwise quite puzzlesome notions that e.g. abusing albanians in Kosovo is morally wrong because its democracy, but doing the same, and more to palestinians in West Bank and Gaza is OK because it the right to defence. But if I say, here look, it really simple: this is OK because "blabla", but that, there is very very wrong because "boobla", now having said the majic words, the difference becomes nice and clear to us, who cares that they look and smell quite the same?

[jbg]

I know, these "people" (why being shy, all of a sudden?) particularly excel in drawing laws, moral codes and guideleness, though only for others.

You haven't done anything to explain what effort the Gazan government is making at economic development. Other than gratuitously killing people?

[KrustyKidd]

Maybe if the Gazans had gone about seeking economic development, and trade relations, rather than using (allegedly) limited funds to obtain very dangerous weapons people wouldn't call them savages.

They, and the Israelis could be rich beyond their wildest dreams if they only could gel into one cooperative unit.

Krusty Kid Peace Plan

[ft.niagara]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3241898

"Israel on edge as US presses to halt settlements"

It seems that the Obama election is going to mean bad news to Israel. It will be interesting to see what will happen over the next four years. Israel will not get the preferencial treatment it got under GW, which is understandable given Obama's Islamic roots.

[KrustyKidd]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3241898

"Israel on edge as US presses to halt settlements"

It seems that the Obama election is going to mean bad news to Israel. It will be interesting to see what will happen over the next four years. Israel will not get the preferencial treatment it got under GW, which is understandable given Obama's Islamic roots.

How is it bad for Israel given the US has much to lose as well and, what Islamic roots does Obama have given he is Christian?