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Suncor, Petro-Canada announce merger


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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Canadian oil and gas giants Suncor Energy Inc. and Petro-Canada announced Monday that they have agreed to merge, creating a single company worth $43.3 billion.

The companies will operate under the Suncor name with Suncor's existing shareholders owning 60 per cent of the company and Petro-Canada shareholders owning 40 per cent.

It is the end of the Petro-Canada name across Canada. They are calling it a merge but it is really a takeover of the old Crown Corporation.

Since Petro-Canada is a private company now, it has followed the path of a private company except for one thing: Petro-Canada Public Participation Act, a piece of federal legislation that prohibits any group from holding more than 20 per cent of voting shares in the former Crown corporation. That article remains in place.

I wonder how long that will last.

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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

It is the end of the Petro-Canada name across Canada. They are calling it a merge but it is really a takeover of the old Crown Corporation.

Since Petro-Canada is a private company now, it has followed the path of a private company except for one thing: Petro-Canada Public Participation Act, a piece of federal legislation that prohibits any group from holding more than 20 per cent of voting shares in the former Crown corporation. That article remains in place.

I wonder how long that will last.

I'm still wondering if we will ever find out just what Trudeau's government paid BP, Gulf and those other companies to form Petro-Can!

That secret has been locked up tighter than a frog's butt, and that's water tight! A succession of Attorney Generals have tried and failed.

All we know is that those companies couldn't take the money fast enough.

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What does it all matter? Competition, if there ever truly was any, has suffered another blow.

The oil/gas/broker/speculator cabal is just gearing up for another ratchet session in pricing.

Yoiu know, 3 clicks up, 1 back, repeat , repeat, repeat.

They are in part responsible for the current financial maladies, and appear untouchable.

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What does it all matter? Competition, if there ever truly was any, has suffered another blow.

The oil/gas/broker/speculator cabal is just gearing up for another ratchet session in pricing.

Yoiu know, 3 clicks up, 1 back, repeat , repeat, repeat.

They are in part responsible for the current financial maladies, and appear untouchable.

Competition? That was the line handed us for forming Petro-Can in the first place! It was implied that they would force the other guys to keep their prices down in order to compete with them.

Of course, this turned out to be a total crock! Petro-Can stations were always the first to put their prices up and the last to lower them! They simply became just another player that "hosed" us all.

It has been said many times that the true bottleneck for competition with pricing has always been the lack of refinery capacity. It really doesn't matter how many service stations there are if they all get their fuel from the same few refineries.

After all these years we've never seen Petro-Can or anybody else build even ONE new refinery!

What does that tell us?

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Competition? That was the line handed us for forming Petro-Can in the first place! It was implied that they would force the other guys to keep their prices down in order to compete with them.

Of course, this turned out to be a total crock! Petro-Can stations were always the first to put their prices up and the last to lower them! They simply became just another player that "hosed" us all.

It has been said many times that the true bottleneck for competition with pricing has always been the lack of refinery capacity. It really doesn't matter how many service stations there are if they all get their fuel from the same few refineries.

After all these years we've never seen Petro-Can or anybody else build even ONE new refinery!

What does that tell us?

That capitalism doesn't work.

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That capitalism doesn't work.

Well, there are at least two other factors I can think of that your premise doesn't address.

First, it was government "green" laws that put the price of a new refinery into orbit.

Second, the official line for forming Petro-Can was to have a lever on those "evil capitalist oil companies'. So why didn't Petro-Can build some new refineries?

Guess government doesn't work either.

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Competition? That was the line handed us for forming Petro-Can in the first place! It was implied that they would force the other guys to keep their prices down in order to compete with them.

Of course, this turned out to be a total crock! Petro-Can stations were always the first to put their prices up and the last to lower them! They simply became just another player that "hosed" us all.

It has been said many times that the true bottleneck for competition with pricing has always been the lack of refinery capacity. It really doesn't matter how many service stations there are if they all get their fuel from the same few refineries.

After all these years we've never seen Petro-Can or anybody else build even ONE new refinery!

What does that tell us?

That tells us that environazis, starting in the early 70s, have made it so cost prohibitive to build new capacity that when refineries go down for maintenance or other issues, the price goes up because the supply is so tight. Which is exactly what the tree hugger wants, and your typical Canadian is too believing of the enviro-babble to understand what's going on.

So eyeball is a socialist, that explains a lot.

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Competition? That was the line handed us for forming Petro-Can in the first place! It was implied that they would force the other guys to keep their prices down in order to compete with them.

Of course, this turned out to be a total crock! Petro-Can stations were always the first to put their prices up and the last to lower them! They simply became just another player that "hosed" us all.

It has been said many times that the true bottleneck for competition with pricing has always been the lack of refinery capacity. It really doesn't matter how many service stations there are if they all get their fuel from the same few refineries.

After all these years we've never seen Petro-Can or anybody else build even ONE new refinery!

What does that tell us?

I think it would be a good time to snap up some shares in this new company. I hope they pay out nice dividends. Smells like Potash Corp! If people are so uppity about their fuel bills, time to invest in oil companies. Think of it as a normal expense and the dividends paid out will offset the gas prices.

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That tells us that environazis, starting in the early 70s, have made it so cost prohibitive to build new capacity that when refineries go down for maintenance or other issues, the price goes up because the supply is so tight. Which is exactly what the tree hugger wants, and your typical Canadian is too believing of the enviro-babble to understand what's going on.

What of the idea that no new refineries are on board simply because the use of "supply is so tight" has ensured riches?

We havent seen any supply problems (long line ups etc a la 70's) so is there is seems to be enough capacity right now.

(I am not denying the enviros had a hand long ago)

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What of the idea that no new refineries are on board simply because the use of "supply is so tight" has ensured riches?

We havent seen any supply problems (long line ups etc a la 70's) so is there is seems to be enough capacity right now.

(I am not denying the enviros had a hand long ago)

Now we're back to the OP! Petro-Can always inferred this sense of 'righteousness', in that they spent unrevealed billions of our tax dollars to establish an oil company so that they could force prices down for us poor peons at the pump.

If you're correct that a lack of refinery capacity is deliberate (and that makes a lot of sense!) then again we must ask, why didn't Petro-Can spend their profits on some new refineries to expand the supply of refined gasoline and bring down the price?

The only explanation that makes sense is that the Liberals never intended for Petro-Can to lower prices.

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I don't believe this is a blow to competition in the market. Suncor does not have any retail outlets, and Petro Canada does not do any refining. This is just a match that makes sense. They can deliver their services at lower cost, which should translate to better competition globally.

Perhaps you live in a part of Canada without Sunoco gas stations, Randy. They're quite common here in Ontario.

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At lower cost to themselves, but keeping the retail price as high as anyone else....right?

Competition never sees the light at the pump.

Almost half of gas prices are swallowed up in taxes. If we're blaming the oil companies for high prices, the gov't has a hand in that as well.

The thing that is perplexing is that why do Canadians bitch so much at high gas prices. We are an oil exporting nation, and our companies are doing very well. These are also publicly traded companies, so people can do one of two things. A) continue to complain and get hosed, or B) snap up shares in these companies to offset the gas prices.

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The thing that is perplexing is that why do Canadians bitch so much at high gas prices. We are an oil exporting nation, and our companies are doing very well. These are also publicly traded companies, so people can do one of two things. A) continue to complain and get hosed, or B) snap up shares in these companies to offset the gas prices.

And none of that is incorrect, however none of the companies in Canada face any competition.

By finding a way to deliver cheaper and sell cheaper they would garner higher market share, but of course none of them make any attempt to do that. And of course people would want to buy more shares of that stock....

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And none of that is incorrect, however none of the companies in Canada face any competition.

By finding a way to deliver cheaper and sell cheaper they would garner higher market share, but of course none of them make any attempt to do that. And of course people would want to buy more shares of that stock....

Suncor is doing that with it's purchase of Petro-Can, they now can do the whole supply chain. There is lots of competition from the mining/drilling end of things, and some competition for gasoline distribution. Your beef is with the refineries. However there is only 30 million people in Canada, so there is not much need to have a large refining capacity. What is there for gasoline; co-op, petrocan/suncor, esso, some shell, superstore, domo, indpendants, etc. so I think the competition is at the retail end.

This is another case of high taxes causing problems.

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Perhaps you live in a part of Canada without Sunoco gas stations, Randy. They're quite common here in Ontario.

Yeah, I kinda simplified too much there. Truth is Petro Canada and Suncor do many of the same things, but it's their primary focuses that are at either end - Suncor with the refining, and Petro Canada with distribution and retail. Combine both of these, and you get a more complete and functioning company. It's just too bad it can't be a Canadian company.

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I'm still wondering if we will ever find out just what Trudeau's government paid BP, Gulf and those other companies to form Petro-Can!

That secret has been locked up tighter than a frog's butt, and that's water tight! A succession of Attorney Generals have tried and failed.

All we know is that those companies couldn't take the money fast enough.

Trudeau paid untold $Billions to buy a Belgian Oil company's Canadian subsidiary, Petrofina-Canada to re-name it Petro-Can:

Trudeau wanted Canada to be less dependent on the United States. He lobbied for increased Canadian ownership and protection of the country's resources. Creating Petro-Canada in 1975 was part of that plan. The Crown-owned company would develop and control Canada's presence in the energy sector.

But throughout the energy crisis of the 1970s, a sense of bitterness grew in Western Canada as Central and Eastern Canada increasingly relied on western oil wealth. "Where were Bay Street and Montreal when we needed them in the 1930s and '40s?" the West asked.

In 1980, Trudeau's national energy program (NEP) further angered the West. The program aimed to give Ottawa more control over the country's energy, increase Canadian ownership of the oil industry and share Alberta's oil wealth with the rest of the country. It also included an expanded role for Petro-Canada.

When he became prime minister in 1984, Brian Mulroney dismantled the NEP and ordered Petro-Canada to focus on profits.

1975 - Pierre Trudeau's Liberal government passes Petro-Canada Act, establishing Crown-owned corporation to develop and protect Canadian presence in oil industry.

1978 - Alberta's Syncrude starts up. It's the world's largest producer of crude oil from oilsands. (Petro-Canada owns 12 per cent of Syncrude.)

1979 - Petro-Canada buys Calgary-based Pacific Petroleums. The company discovers (with partners Chevron, Mobil and Gulf) the Hibernia oilfield off Newfoundland.

1980 - First offshore wells drilled as part of oil exploration program off Labrador.

1981 - Petro-Canada buys Petrofina Canada, Canadian subsidiary of Belgian petroleum conglomerate, Petrofina SA. The move establishes a refining and marketing presence in Eastern Canada.

1983 - Company buys BP Canada, enlarging operations in Ontario and Quebec.

1984 - Petro-Canada announces discovery of Terra Nova oilfield on the Grand Banks, off Newfoundland. It's the second-largest oilfield off Canada's East Coast. Tory Prime Minister Brian Mulroney tells Petro-Canada to operate as a profit-driven company.

1991 - Mulroney begins process to privatize Petro-Canada. First shares of Petro-Canada sold to public at $13 per share, raising $525 million.

1992 - Petro-Canada sells off shares in several projects, including Wolf Lake oilsands (50 per cent), Westcoast Energy (37 per cent) and Internationals de Services Industriels et Scientifiques (27 per cent).

1995 - Jean Chrétien's Liberals reduce the government's interest in Petro-Canada to 20 per cent.

1996 - Company increases western presence with purchase of Amerada Hess Canada Ltd.; forms strategic alliance with Norway's Norsk Hydro.....

Petro-Can has divested itself of some(?) of those assets over the years and has had a reputation of poor management, vision, throughout the industry.

`

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Petro-Can has divested itself of some(?) of those assets over the years and has had a reputation of poor management, vision, throughout the industry.

So you think it is a poor purchase on the part of Suncor since it is mismanaged company?

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So you think it is a poor purchase on the part of Suncor since it is mismanaged company?

How does that matter, jdobbin? They buy the company for its assets and turf its management for now being redundant. End of story!

Too bad Maurice Strong wasn't still there to receive a pink slip!

I am very proud of the fact that in my entire life I have only purchased $2 worth of gas from PetroCanada. It was in the early 80's when I was running on fumes in a rural area and the only gas station within reach was a PC. That $2 was enough to get my Rabbit convertible to another brand of station.

I've always been bothered by the fact that PetroCanada never sold a drop of Canadian gas! They bought it all from Libya and Venezuela. Plus I was offended by the manner the company was put together in the first place.

One of the few times I've been able to vote with my feet!

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How does that matter, jdobbin? They buy the company for its assets and turf its management for now being redundant. End of story!

Too bad Maurice Strong wasn't still there to receive a pink slip!

I am very proud of the fact that in my entire life I have only purchased $2 worth of gas from PetroCanada. It was in the early 80's when I was running on fumes in a rural area and the only gas station within reach was a PC. That $2 was enough to get my Rabbit convertible to another brand of station.

I've always been bothered by the fact that PetroCanada never sold a drop of Canadian gas! They bought it all from Libya and Venezuela. Plus I was offended by the manner the company was put together in the first place.

One of the few times I've been able to vote with my feet!

The nice thing about this company is that they are control of enough oil to have drilling last about 100 years. Time to snap up shares!

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