Oleg Bach Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 That most certainly won't happen. Yes it will. Perhaps you have been ignoring my posts. Personally I know of a case where a supposed crazy man - more of a hater than nuts - stabbed a young woman standing on the street minding her own buisness - They locked this fanatic up, gave him medications and a good liberal talking to plus the usual hug. Then they released him after a year or so. A fine young anglo woman - intelligent charming tall and very funny - was standing at a bus stop...this same man approached her from behind. He was carrying two knives and he grabbed her and attempted to literally disembowel this woman. The man was supposedly an Iranian - From what I gather he was a delluded fanatic - a fanatic on our soil - with a mission to kill OUR women. There is a differnence between a person that is a fanatic to someone who is totally out of control and dellusional..a fanatic is on a mission our courts fail to realize this. They also fail to realize that when a person is caught with a gun and released on bail they are releasing a person with one mission - to kill - a short fire arm is designed for one purpose only and that is to kill a human being at close quarters..Yet they release them..some times I wonder if our judicary and those that appoint them are just having a little fun by releasing mayhem on the population - it may be another form of elitist sadism and power mongering..maybe the people who staff the courts and mental health facilties are dangerous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 this could have easily happened at 30,000 feet in an airplane.... Maybe on a private jet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Is it just me or does it seem there is a very high proportion of homicidal maniacs who believe God is ordering them to kill someone? Don't forget these people live in a world filled with cultures that have all likely been very deeply steeped in one religous belief or another. This collective delusion is given a LOT of credibility by society which should not be overlooked. These people are already three quarters deluded before they even get sick and as a result have even less reason to question their own sanity if it goes awry. I don't think there are very many psychiatrists who would prescribe trying to rationalize or otherwise validate a psychotic person's delusions, because it would be like throwing gasoline on a fire. At some point I think society has to be held responsible for at least some of the irrationalism it insists on maintaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Is it just me or does it seem there is a very high proportion of homicidal maniacs who believe God is ordering them to kill someone? Cite? Most around here know that I'm hardly one to stick up for religion, but in this instance I think what you're saying is unwarranted. I see no evidence to support the claim that "a very high proportion" of homicidal maniacs believe God is telling them to do stuff. In a number of cases, it seems to me the motivation is the exact opposite: nihilism. If one looks at the most startling incidents in recent North American history... Marc Lepine, Kliebold and Harris, Kimveer Gill, Seung Hui Cho... the common thread seems to be tiny little men with extremely small penises who have nothing in life except for their fantasies of getting "revenge" on people they think have wronged them. This week's German rampage sounds to have been about the same: “I’ve had enough. Always the same. Everybody’s laughing at me. No one sees my potential. I’m serious. I have weapons and I will go to my former school in the morning and have a proper barbecue. Maybe I’ll get away. Listen out. You will hear of me tomorrow. Remember the place’s name: Winnenden.,” Kretschmer wrote to another 17-year-old, Reuters reports. Others that I'm aware of sound about the same: guy can't deal with the loss of his wife/job/family/dreams and lashes out at his wife/former co-workers/whoever he blames for his manyvaried failings. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Others that I'm aware of sound about the same: guy can't deal with the loss of his wife/job/family/dreams and lashes out at his wife/former co-workers/whoever he blames for his manyvaried failings. I hear you. This is the only murderer I've known personally. He seemed normal enough when I knew him. Jay Handel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Cite?the common thread seems to be tiny little men with extremely small penises who have nothing in life except for their fantasies of getting "revenge" on people they think have wronged them. Ahem....and you would know this how? (j/k) Eyeball, you had it backwards, all killers find God when on death row, or failing that, life sentences. Edited March 13, 2009 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Ahem....and you would know this how? (j/k)Eyeball, you had it backwards, all killers find God when on death row, or failing that, life sentences. God is goodness - and killers do not become suddenly good on death row - they fake it - If they were really good they would not be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 The trial of the guy who infamously decapitated a young man on a Greyhound bus last summer is currently taking place in Winnipeg. His defence, not surprisingly, is not guilty by reason of insanity. I find myself torn on this one. On the one hand, it would seem insane to ever again allow a person who committed such a crime to be free. But on the other hand, it appears that he was in the midst of a psychotic episode and, because of a purely medical condition, had completely lost touch with reality. It seems that he too might be considered a victim of these circumstances. So perhaps, with careful drug treatment and vigilant oversight, he could be somewhat cured. But I sympathize with the dead buy's mother and totally understand why she would never want to see him on the streets again. It's a tough problem that would have been nicely solved, I suppose, if, as many have suggested, the RCMP would have just shot him while he was defiling the body. What is the definition of crimminality? What is the definition of responsible and what does it mean if the person committing the act is not responsive to the fact that what he is doing is wrong? This guy was totally aware of what he was doing was a crimminal act. No matter how crazy he appeared to be or how insane the examining doctors say he is - is of no consequense. The killer has a mind - in that mind he knows the difference between his right hand and his left - the difference between right and wrong. Just because he ignored his inner intellect that is always in tact and took it upon himself to make the decision to kill - was a choice - but some say that making this choice is insane..thus he did not make the choice himself...some other inner or outer force caused him to choice this direction...I find that a farce - he took the evil route and had the presense of mind to proudly and daringly display the product of this evil - by holding the head for all to see..this took presense of mind - and the judges and doctors are either stupid - or plain nasty...I would say they are cowards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 A Canadian court has ruled that an immigrant who beheaded a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus and then ate his eyeballs is not criminally responsible for his actions because he has a “mental disorder.” The decision, which follows a series of spectacularly lenient judicial rulings in Canada in recent years, has outraged ordinary Canadians, who say that left-wing judges increasingly are sacrificing justice and common sense on the altar of bleeding-heart political correctness.--- After meeting with government psychiatrists, however, Li claimed that God had told him to kill McLean because McLean “was a force of evil.” Doctors later concluded that Li was actually a “decent person” who was suffering from untreated schizophrenia and was out of his mind when he attacked McLean. They also advised the judge that Li should be found not criminally responsible (NCR) for his actions based on his mental state at the time. “People who are mentally ill should not be convicted when they don’t know what they did was wrong,” the doctors said. As a result, the sole issue for the presiding judge to decide was whether or not Li should be held criminally responsible. Not a single one of the three dozen witnesses to the killing was called to testify. When the court reporter read aloud the charge of second-degree murder and asked for his plea, Li responded in a clear, loud voice: “not guilty.” And the judge agreed. The practical effect of the judge’s ruling is that instead of going to prison, Li will go to a hospital to receive medication and counseling, after which he may be released back on to the street in less than one year, with no criminal record. In Canada, anyone found NCR is not required to serve any minimum time in detention. --- Li’s case is by no means unique, as more and more Canadian lawbreakers are using NCR to evade responsibility (and time) for their crimes (here, here and here). For example, Stephan Gaetan Lee was found NCR for the gruesome murder of Steven Tavares in Alberta in November 2004. In December 2005, Lee was committed to a hospital in Edmonton, but to the horror of many Albertans, he was released less than three years later after a mental health review board deemed that Lee no longer posed a threat to society. Lee is now living freely in Edmonton. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/getting-away-...rder-in-canada/ Here are the 4 other cases of recent NCR rulings in Canada that the author references. Matthew Patrick Ranghel fately stabbed a senior, Dino Bellavia, and was found NCR. http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/323007 Gregory Despres should not be held criminally responsible for his alleged involvement in the death of his elderly neighbours, a Halifax psychiatrist testifying for the defence told Fredericton's Court of Queen's Bench Monday.Despres is accused of killing Fred Fulton, 74, and Verna Decarie, 70. He has pleaded not guilty to two counts of first-degree murder. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/sto...es-advance.html The widow of a slain Calgary man is dismayed his "deranged" killer is back on the streets three years after being ruled legally insane.Ashlee Morgan yesterday told the Sun she can't believe the Alberta Review Board has determined Stephan Gaetan Lee does not need continued hospitalization. Lee was found not criminally responsible (NCR) by reason of a mental disorder in December 2005, in connection with the murder of Steven Tavares. Lee worked with Tavares at Calgary company Nexxa Industries Ltd., and both were on a company retreat in Kananaskis Country on Nov. 7, 2005, when he was slain in his room at the Delta Lodge. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/11/...525796-sun.html Schoolgirls' attacker ruled not criminally responsibleA schizophrenic man who attacked three schoolgirls was ruled not criminally responsible today after a psychiatrist said the man believed he had to commit the "evil actions" to keep the city safe from invading gangsters. Provincial Court Judge Donna Valgardson ruled today that Jonathan Quinn Lewis, 25, did not know that what he was doing was wrong when he snuck into the girls bathroom at two Edmonton elementary schools and assaulted the children. ---- He was charged, but the Crown withdrew the charges for lack of evidence, and Lewis was freed. The next set of attacks happened Jan. 8, 2007, when Lewis walked into Victoria school and again hid in the washroom. This time two eight-year-old girls came to the bathroom together, and when one girl went into a stall, Lewis grabbed the other. He pulled down his pants, but when the child yelled to her friend, he pulled them up and ran off. The third incident occurred two hours later, when Lewis followed a 12-year-old girl home from her bus stop and grabbed her with both hands around her throat. He told her she was going to die. She blacked out. http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/s...3d-0a3c6380fd33 Those are some of the recent successful NCR defenses. What about all the other cases where the defense was unsucessful and the perp ended up being held criminally responsible? I mean, from a defense lawyer's perspective, using NCR is as good a defense as any if it keeps a perp out of jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 If NCR is successful perps are patients. That's what really bugs you isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) The man has paranoid schitzophrenia. It is a psychiatric disease. To suggest as Oleg did that he is sane and planned it simply reflects ignorance as to the characteristics and symptoms of the disease. Furthemore in less then 6% of paranoid schizophrenics do they go on to engage in violence to anyone but themselves. It is actually very rare but it does happen. The real question is, why was this man not treated earlier. Chances are had he been on medication none of this would have happened. This man did not create any story. Paranoid schizophrenia is diagnosed using criteria that screen out manipulative personalities. In in fact this man was as Oleg suggests, he would be a psycho-path or socio-path and the last thing he would do is make up stories that he heard God. He would in fact be one of two things-completely unemotional and matter of fact about what he did with no emotion or he would describe himself as a hero or victim. This man asked to be killed. Psychopaths and sociopaths don't ask to be killed they ask to be worshipped and served. I can well understand why the family of this victim are shocked and angered. I would expect nothing else from them. It was a horrible crime. I would feel the same way. All the more reason instead of exploiting their misery instead of screaming revenge we need to be calm and use a rational process to bring understanding to it and prevent it from happening again. It will happen again precisely because politicians find it easier to cut back on funding for mental hospitals and supervised programs for the mentally ill then increase taxes to pay for them. want to put him in jail? Remember this-the same politicians who demand we put more people in jail like Mr. Harper won't commit any funding to build more jail cells and hire more prison guards so there is no place to put them and any prison sentence is automatically slashed in half simply because of the lack of facilities. Then another half of the remaining half sentence is taken off as long as the convict doesn't do anything outrageous while in prison. This is why when you hear a man who makes bombs to engage in terrorism gets a 10 year sentence its more like 5 maybe as long as 2.5. The next time you hear Stephen Harper scream he wants to put more people in jail ask when the last time was he cleared more funding to build more jails. We are good at sounding tough in Canada but no politician wants to pay the price. That is why our politicians send troops to war with lack of proper equipment and manpower and why they scream to put everyone in jail and in the same breath clear the room when someone suggests they need to increase taxes to do that. This man is mentally ill. He belongs in a hospital and on medication. Killing him won't do anything to bring back the poor young man he mutilated. Learning from what he did to prevent other mentally ill people from not being treated and committing the same kind of act surely is the best way to honour this young man's death to make sure he did not die in vain. Edited March 16, 2009 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 This man is mentally ill. He belongs in a hospital and on medication. Killing him won't do anything to bring back the poor young man he mutilated. Learning from what he did to prevent other mentally ill people from not being treated and committing the same kind of act surely is the best way to honour this young man's death to make sure he did not die in vain. I agree Rue. I think the fear in the population is that a murderer could be released into society before their illness is fully under control and without supervision. As discussed earlier in this thread, there is a lot of ignorance about mental illness in this country. Governments are not doing enough by way of educating the public about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 If NCR is successful perps are patients.That's what really bugs you isn't it? No it doesn't bug me. Whether they are found sane or insane, all killers should be patients after their cases have made through the trial process. There's a lot to be learned about what makes these people tick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 No it doesn't bug me. I apologize for implying you might think otherwise. It does seem this does bug a lot of other people. Whether they are found sane or insane, all killers should be patients after their cases have made through the trial process. There's a lot to be learned about what makes these people tick. When the day comes that people refer to perps as patients we'll have obviously learned something even more important, what it is that makes us tick. If this smacks too much of political correctness, too bad. The only thing that will ultimately lead to better treatment of the mentally ill amongst us is to treat them as human beings, which includes referring to them as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Lawyers are often reluctant to pursue an NCR defence, though, because they can backfire. If that person is never determined safe to re-enter the community, they can spend the rest of their lives locked up. That's a sentence even first-degree murderers deemed criminally responsible would never see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Lawyers are often reluctant to pursue an NCR defence, though, because they can backfire. If that person is never determined safe to re-enter the community, they can spend the rest of their lives locked up. That's a sentence even first-degree murderers deemed criminally responsible would never see. Either way it works. There are lots of people running about who were deemed NCR...who have been released with out great publicity. I mentioned the Iranian crazy man who stabbed a young woman at a bus stop - a brutal multiple stabing boardering on dis-embowlment...He had done this previously....and was found not to be crimminally responsible - I wonder if he will be out for a third stabbing in 3 years? Your post is not fully correct...unless the person is deemed a habitual and dangerous unredeemable offender he will see the light of day eventually - and even dangerous offenders do get out. We have a very warm hearted liberal system - where EXPERTS testify. Like that pediatric patholigist..who jailed a dozen innocent people - EXPERT TESTIMONY IS DANGEROUS - BECAUSE--- They are paid and people that are paid will say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 There are lots of people running about who were deemed NCR...who have been released with out great publicity. That appears to be what will soon happen in this case. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/br...ade-public.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 That appears to be what will soon happen in this case. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/br...ade-public.html When you cut off someones head - that is insanity - and you are not responsible - BUT when you have the forthought and presense of mind to take a few minutes and display the severed noggin to law enforcement - that is not insanity - that is a thinking person who knows what he is doing and going for a desired effect --- Recently I heard a story about a couple of thugs that are housed down the street in one of those ugly grey buildings right next door to the "harm reduction" liberal dope section ----I saw a forensic unit out side the place a couple of weeks ago - prior to that I was accousted by a couple of guys fresh out of the slammer - who were whinning in a violent manner about almost being deemed dangerous offenders - I wondered what they were doing running free? Right after that - I heard a report that a couple of guys - who believed that someone in that liberal institutional living space - had "ratted" them out over an armed robbery -------------I don't know if it was the same thugs - but ---- it was said that two nasty guys - put the "rat" in a bath tub - cut off most of his fingers and a few of his toes - then sewed his mouth shut - THEN - the poor beggar that actually lives in the little suite - walks in and gets a table leg in the face...... Question - what the hell are these people doing running loose? - of course - they are not crimminally responsible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 ALSO: You can buy your way out of our judical system and be crimminally respoinsible or not - by simply getting a lawyer who hires an "expert" in say mental health - You pay that expert his "expenses" appoximately $2500 and he will give you a clean bill of mental health or a dirty one - what ever is desired - the use of "experts" in this manner should be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 He won't do a day in prison. My money's on his lawyer (that I'll have to pay for) chasing the "not criminally responsible" BS that plays so well in Canadian courts. He'll be found nuts at the time and spend a month or two in a mental hospital and then some shrink will say he's no longer a threat to society and he'll walk.Anyone want to take the bet? Look familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 "Not crimminally responsible" does not mean he is not responsible - so who do they imagine is responsible? God ? or maybe the victim...someone is responsible somewhere? If he is allowed to wander in time and he kills again- then I say take the committee and the lawyer who made this hater NOT responsible - responsible - give them all 20 years in jail if he kills - that should make someone careful about who and what the release on society...IF - the experts knew that they would become crimminally responsible - they would not release him ever - How can you let anyone go free - after they chopped your head off...this hater chopped the head off every Canadian that he hated - which is all of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Does anyone anything personal about the man? As for the length of time he's been in Canada, or was he born here? Did the govt do their job by checking out his medical history or so we just let people walk in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Does anyone anything personal about the man? As for the length of time he's been in Canada, or was he born here? Did the govt do their job by checking out his medical history or so we just let people walk in? I saw his pic. Looks like a handsome well bred Asian warrior from another time - this guy is not nuts - he was displaced into the wrong time - He was made for killing - but there is no place for him in the twenty first century - so he made a place for himself - - He looks to me to be part of the old Samari marshall class - look at his chiseled features - the guy is a born killing machine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Rider Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 The horror the poor Mom lives everyday and now she has to sit through this trial is beyond what a parent should have to bare. It would have been so much kinder for all concerned if the RCMP had dispatched the killer at the scene. Okay, enough of this bullshit. The RCMP are not, I repeat are not executioners, nor is it in their mandate or duty to act as judge, jury and executioner. The RCMP along with all other Canadian Policing agencies are law enforcement officers as defined as their roles as officers of the peace and officers of the court. And may whatever God you believe in save you if they ever do get that power, because none of us would be safe. Asking them to shoot or even they had actually shot and kill a person such a Li in order to "spare" the victim's relatives further grief, and to appease our sense of righteous indignation along with slating our thirst for vengeance not only does a disservice to the RCMP membership, but it is a blatant insult to them. The RCMP can only use lethal force when a: their lives are in danger or b: when the life of a citizen is in danger. They are also highly trained in where and when lethal force is to be used and in this case it was not required. The victim was no longer in mortal danger as he was already deceased and Li was contained. And while the defilement of the victims body is horrific, it was not sufficient reason for any police force to use lethal force. Had Li charged at the RCMP, then the use of lethal force could be morally and legally used. Whether or not Li ever walks the streets as a freeman again will be up to both the courts and medical professionals and fortunately not up to a knee jerk reactionary mob ready to storm the castle keep with torches and pitchforks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 When you cut off someones head - that is insanity - and you are not responsible - BUT when you have the forthought and presense of mind to take a few minutes and display the severed noggin to law enforcement - that is not insanity - that is a thinking person who knows what he is doing and going for a desired effect --- Huh? I think that indicates his complete detachment from reality. The fact is that no expert on either side is saying this guy isn't crazy. Recently I heard a story about a couple of thugs that are housed down the street in one of those ugly grey buildings right next door to the "harm reduction" liberal dope section ----I saw a forensic unit out side the place a couple of weeks ago - prior to that I was accousted by a couple of guys fresh out of the slammer - who were whinning in a violent manner about almost being deemed dangerous offenders - I wondered what they were doing running free? Right after that - I heard a report that a couple of guys - who believed that someone in that liberal institutional living space - had "ratted" them out over an armed robbery -------------I don't know if it was the same thugs - but ---- it was said that two nasty guys - put the "rat" in a bath tub - cut off most of his fingers and a few of his toes - then sewed his mouth shut - THEN - the poor beggar that actually lives in the little suite - walks in and gets a table leg in the face......Question - what the hell are these people doing running loose? - of course - they are not crimminally responsible... Oh well, you heard a story about some guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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