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The Kangaroo Court at it again.


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A couple of days ago this story was on the radio about a gym owner in St. Catherines who opened a 'women's only' section of his gym. A pre-operative transsexual applied to become a member, but admitted he was a guy. The gym owner didn't say no, but first said let me see what my rights and obligations are. The human rights commission in Ontario told the gym owner he must give equal access to the transsexual, but had no answer when the gym owner asked about the rights of his woman clients - who don't want to share a shower room/change room with a man.

It is absurd that the human rights commission is even hearing this case. If you are a man, dressed like a woman or not, you should not have any right to enter the woman's change room. The result, if this were allowed, is that women would stop using these gyms... because how are they to know that transsexual in the corner isn't just some pervert out to get his rocks off?

Fulton said he called the tribunal and was told he had to let the man use the women's facilities, but he said he couldn't get an answer on what his rights and the rights of his female clients are.

"I had to find out what my women's rights were," he said Wednesday.

Fulton (the gym owner) went to mediation first, but was then asked to offer a settlement to the transsexual. He refused to settle, and instead decided to allow himself to be taken to the HR tribunal and take his chances - despite the legal fees, etc, that he will incur. Madness.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/593117

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That's the problem with these things, a business owner has to defend himself out of his own pocket to this mickey mouse witch hunt with no downside to the complaining party. If he goes out of business because of it to bad??????? He should be able to go after the government for legal fees if he wins but he won't, the deck is stacked against him. The commission needs these complaints to justify their existence.

Settlement? "was then asked to offer a settlement to the transsexual." Right there they lost me, if your rights were stomped on and you feel so strongly about it, money should have nothing to do with this unless you are just looking for a quick buck at the expense of someone else.

Sounds like someone is looking for the money tree and they will magically no longer feel their rights have been abused. Surprised?

Sounds just as good as the one around Toronto a year or so ago.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/585012

I'm sure there are valid complaints and the reason you don't hear about them is because they are valid. Just another example of people milking the system and no one has a pair to put a stop to it.

Edited by Charles Anthony
deleted entirely re-quoted Opening Post
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As a business or private club you should be able to discern who enters and who dosn`t. The Human Rights people are hearing these cases to justify themselves in job that is meaningless.. They have no moral right to destroy private business. I expected better of this Conservative government. They should have abolished these Stalin like tribunals.

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Including colour , creed or sex?

I will clarify! This case in point and the chap who is fighting the guy who wants to smoke his legal weed in his bar. Both these private business` are in jeopardy of closing because they are in a no win situation. If the Human rights jerks find in favour of the transvestite the owner of the Gym will lose his members. If the bar owner allows as has been declared by HRC ,the weed smoker to smoke his weed, the liquor board will yank his licence. Time to scrap the HRC. We have laws for discrimination that can be judged by real judges in a court of law.

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So how would you fix this?

In the restaurant example the guy out of spite lit up at the front doors. I as a smoker would never dream of pulling that crap with a regular smoke let alone a joint. My late father would have cuffed me up side the head for being rude and inconsiderate to others. They interviewed him on a Toronto radio station and he came across pretty smug and entitled to do whatever he likes, whenever he felt like it. What about some consideration for those around you. If I am in MY car or house I can smoke to my hearts content but while in public lighting up where ever I feel like it is not fair to those that have never started or have stopped.

What about the rights of the women in the gym? Why does the rights of one out weigh the rights of many?

I guess thinking of others has gone out the window in this selfish society of ours.

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So how would you fix this?

In the restaurant example the guy out of spite lit up at the front doors.

He may have done that , but then again, so do thousands of people , everyday and twice on Sunday.(at least they do with cigs)

He could have done lots of things to get the guy smoking pot to do it elsewhere. I suspect there was some bad blood between them, and as such, the smoker dug in his heels, idiot that he is.

They interviewed him on a Toronto radio station and he came across pretty smug and entitled to do whatever he likes, whenever he felt like it. What about some consideration for those around you.

He probably was a smug jerk, but he has the law on his side. He was medicinally prescribed the pot, and smoking outside is not against the law.......although we are moving that way.

If someone doesnt like the smell in public, move away. I dont like the smell of roofing tar , nor buses, nor diesel engines and car exhaust....please do it elsewhere. Do you think that works?

If I am in MY car or house I can smoke to my hearts content but while in public lighting up where ever I feel like it is not fair to those that have never started or have stopped.

See above.

What about the rights of the women in the gym? Why does the rights of one out weigh the rights of many?

I guess thinking of others has gone out the window in this selfish society of ours.

What right was violated?

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Including colour , creed or sex?

Why not? I have no problem with black organizations.

I googled it and came up with this page.

http://www.littleafrica.com/resources/organizations.htm

The only white organizations I could find had something to do with being a supremacist or an aryan.

No society of White Engineers, White Filmmakers Hall of Fame, White Womens Network or even Harvard White Law Students Associations.

So should I go and Cry to the HRC that my rights are being trampled on because African Americans/Canadians have their own clubs or Associations and I feel discriminated against. NO but if the shoe was on the other foot watch out Al Sharpton would be all over you. Double standard what's new.

What about Curves, the exercise place? It's women only, that's not right you can't do that, maybe I should call HRC and see if I can't fix that. What the hell it wont cost me anything the HRC will pay for everything and if it doesn't work out for me, oh well. They go out off business because of legal fees and I walk away being a S***disturber.

Great System.....

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He may have done that , but then again, so do thousands of people , everyday and twice on Sunday.(at least they do with cigs)

He could have done lots of things to get the guy smoking pot to do it elsewhere. I suspect there was some bad blood between them, and as such, the smoker dug in his heels, idiot that he is.

He probably was a smug jerk, but he has the law on his side. He was medicinally prescribed the pot, and smoking outside is not against the law.......although we are moving that way.

If someone doesnt like the smell in public, move away. I dont like the smell of roofing tar , nor buses, nor diesel engines and car exhaust....please do it elsewhere. Do you think that works?

"No but do you run to the HRC because your nose was offended, of course not."

See above.

What right was violated?

"To feel secure maybe."

All I'm saying is if people took others into consideration once and a while the world would be a better place. :) This me first and the hell with the rest of you society of ours will not allow it to happen though.

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Why not? I have no problem with black organizations.

Knock yourself out. And expect to be brought up on a Charter issue.

The only white organizations I could find had something to do with being a supremacist or an aryan.

No society of White Engineers, White Filmmakers Hall of Fame, White Womens Network or even Harvard White Law Students Associations.

There are some, look at who runs them. All the ones you listed are.

So should I go and Cry to the HRC that my rights are being trampled on because African Americans/Canadians have their own clubs or Associations and I feel discriminated against. NO but if the shoe was on the other foot watch out Al Sharpton would be all over you. Double standard what's new.

No you have not been discriminated against. You arent African.

You can however, start anything you wish.

What about Curves, the exercise place? It's women only, that's not right you can't do that, maybe I should call HRC and see if I can't fix that. What the hell it wont cost me anything the HRC will pay for everything and if it doesn't work out for me, oh well. They go out off business because of legal fees and I walk away being a S***disturber.

Great System.....

I dont know how Curves gets away with it. Except I do understand it, but it should be put to the test, so go ahead.

Come up with a better system.

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This case is exactly where it belongs. Even more important is the ruling that comes from it. I do not have a crystal ball to know how it will turn out.

If this case bothers you so, perhaps you should get involved in business where litigation is a business tactic.

Many cases can crush a business and many with far lesser issues to deal with then one of Human Rights. And the costs can be much higher to a company defending itself.

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This case is exactly where it belongs. Even more important is the ruling that comes from it. I do not have a crystal ball to know how it will turn out.

If this case bothers you so, perhaps you should get involved in business where litigation is a business tactic.

Many cases can crush a business and many with far lesser issues to deal with then one of Human Rights. And the costs can be much higher to a company defending itself.

I don't think this 'case' needed to become a case at all.

The conversation should have been:

TS: I want to join the women's only gym, but I am a guy.

O: Sorry, you can't join. Come back after you've had your sack cut off.

So simple, and easy. The guy is a guy, so not allowed in with the woman - can it get any simpler than that?

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I don't think this 'case' needed to become a case at all.

The conversation should have been:

TS: I want to join the women's only gym, but I am a guy.

O: Sorry, you can't join. Come back after you've had your sack cut off.

So simple, and easy. The guy is a guy, so not allowed in with the woman - can it get any simpler than that?

Well.....dont run a business then.....

DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENTDiscrimination because of gender identity is any action based on a person’s sex or gender, intentional or not, that imposes burdens on a person or group and not on others, or that withholds or limits access to benefits available to other members of society. This can be overt or subtle, and includes systemic discrimination, such as when there is a non-inclusive rule or policy.

Example: A transsexual woman is not allowed to use the women’s washroom at her place of work. Her manager defends this by explaining that other staff have expressed discomfort. This workplace needs a policy that clearly states the transsexual employee has the right to use this washroom, while providing education to resolve staff concerns and to prevent future harassment and discrimination.

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Well.....dont run a business then.....

DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENTDiscrimination because of gender identity is any action based on a person’s sex or gender, intentional or not, that imposes burdens on a person or group and not on others, or that withholds or limits access to benefits available to other members of society. This can be overt or subtle, and includes systemic discrimination, such as when there is a non-inclusive rule or policy.

Example: A transsexual woman is not allowed to use the women’s washroom at her place of work. Her manager defends this by explaining that other staff have expressed discomfort. This workplace needs a policy that clearly states the transsexual employee has the right to use this washroom, while providing education to resolve staff concerns and to prevent future harassment and discrimination.

There is a very simple solution to your Example A: Never, ever, hire a transsexual in a company which employs women.

`

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You know what the Human Rights Commission is? It is when the Supreme Court Of Canada fails to do it's supreme duty...the HRC is the begining of the disgarding and cover up of failed justice --It is the re-cycling down warde of issues and then hopefully to be forgotten. When they are not doing that primary task they clutter the public mind with trivial matters...and I am sure the tribunal - or quasy court called the HRC - is run by a bunch of very very very dull people - the lowest and most politically correct idots on the face of North America. If you need such a body it means that the nation in general will never have full human rights..just there very existance signifys a void...we don't need them - we need to start stop abusing and mutilating and ignoring - THE CANADAIAN CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS.....NOT ONCE DID I ever see the low or high courts of the land respect it - toss it all out or use it!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Neither are most black North Americans.

In France there were car buring riots and the American nimrod media refered to the rioters as "African Americans" - stuidity - these blacks have never been to America...and those that say only people of dark skin are persecuted or were discriminated against...As the son of Russian immigrants living in a semi-rural red neck town - we were the N***ers - it was common to have a rock fly through the dinning room window and land on the turkey - It was common to ward of a gang of 20 kids gathered outside the house beating up my brother calling him a "dirty German" and a "French Bastard" - we were neither ....My brother as a young guy attempted to enlist and because he had Russian parents he was barred. When I tell blacks about this discrimination they are stunned...They think they are the only ones to feel the sting of racial shame.

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Except you didnt.

Serves some purpose and one of those is to keep courts unclogged. Make it better, get rid of the extreme left wing portion of it and away we go.

The extreme left wing portion?!! That is the COMPLETE makeup of Human Rights Commissions!

By all means,disband them,cut off their funding,whatever it takes.They are stacked with ultra left wingers with their own agenda.Common sense and fairness are NOT part of the equation.The scariest part is they feel they are accountable to no one.

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When you get a bar owner who does not want some jerks smoking "medical" dope in the doorway to his establishement because he caters to families and is in the alcohol and food buisness...not the dope buisness - Yet the Human Rights Tribunal will assist this agressive and arrogant selfhish dope smoker in the destruction of the bar owners buisness - then - the HRT has to go.

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Guyser,

You have done a great job here of explaining the status quo.

Come up with a better system.

Exactly. A 'system' can't be written with a line that says "ignore ridiculous requests" because that judgment is subjective.

Radio stations love these controversial HRC decisions, because it gets the phone ringing. But they hardly ever touch on the serious issue of remaking the system. It seems to me that the only fix that we would need would be to get good legal minds on the HRC boards to handle proper mediation of these issues.

I do find it hard to understand how settlements to plaintiffs solves anything at all. These appear to be punitive damages, yet many of the parties are appealing to the HRC because the course of action is unclear to begin with.

All of the members appear to be lawyers, save one.

http://www.hrto.ca/NEW/about/appointed.asp

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Don't like that criterium for appointment. "Aptitude for applying alternative practices and procedures - ALTERNAIVE probably means experimental rulings or judgements. So they are not about what is right or wrong. They basically test the waters of public acceptance to judical abuses - The fact that they grant the plaintiff punitary damages is that in effect the plaintiff never sees the money - so what they do is tax the person who does not want a man with a penis dressed as a woman in the womans change room at the gym - I get it - they push the public around to see to what degree they can harm the public and get away with it ---- I wonder who they report to---not the same people who the Supreme Court reports to I am sure. Maybe it's this way? Conservatives have their Supreme Court and the little liberals have the Human Rights quasi court. :rolleyes:

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