UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

[dub]

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

video of his speech: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=[/b]

powerful.

more and more jews and israelis are speaking out against israel's atrocities.

[dub]

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

those are strong accusations by a holocaust survivor (my mistake: his family member was killed in the holocaust - the point was that the holocaust impacted his life)

Edited January 28, 2009 by dub

[DogOnPorch]

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

video of his speech: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=[/b]

powerful.

more and more jews and israelis are speaking out against israel's atrocities.

Being that a good chunk of his constituants are new Muslim arrivals to the UK...no wonder. Jack Straw from my family's neck of the woods in England found this out the hard way. Don't piss off your voters. They've gotten rid of Holocaust Memorial Day in parts of the UK for the same reason. Easier to go along...less riots.

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It's a Daisy.

Edited January 24, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Oleg Bach]

Why can't we all just get along? Perhaps it's a bread and butter issue. As long as one eats and the other does not there is going to be trouble..It has nothing to do with religion or race. It's about territory - when translated becomes resourses - translated again MONEY...all those that say Israel is persecuted for being Jewish and that the Arabs just hate the hell out of them - are wrong. You put food on the table and a bit of money in the accounts of all - and there will be peace...BUT - people would rather rationalize their situations in a non-mometary way ----because all humans hate to give up the cash.

[dub]

Being that a good chunk of his constituants are new Muslim arrivals to the UK...no wonder. Jack Straw from my family's neck of the woods in England found this out the hard way. Don't piss off your voters. They've gotten rid of Holocaust Memorial Day in parts of the UK for the same reason. Easier to go along...less riots.

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It's a Daisy.

lol. sure thing dogonporch. i doubt anyone believes your story. it looks like over 80% of the population of Gorton is "white": http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/Gorton_South.pdf

could it be that you're relaying lies and that there are jews who are against israel's occupation?

gerald kaufman is one of many jews with holocaust connections who have been speaking against israel's treatment of the palestinians.

Edited January 25, 2009 by dub

[DogOnPorch]

lol. sure thing dogonporch. i doubt anyone believes your story. it looks like over 80% of the population of Gorton is "white": http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/Gorton_South.pdf

could it be that you're relaying lies and that there are jews who are against israel's occupation?

gerald kaufman is one of many jews with holocaust connections who have been speaking against israel's treatment of the palestinians.

There's plenty of Jews against the conflict in Gaza. Most live in free countries where it is permited (and a luxury) to go against the grain of history. I wonder if the boys in Hamas would have stood up to save Mr Kaufman's granny from the fires? Or perhaps they'd be too busy helping their Nazi hero/icon, the Grand Mufti stuff her into an oven?

Ever been to Manchester? I have. Telling me it isn't one of those hotbeds of radical Islam in the UK won't fly with this cowboy. One of the most radical mosques in England is located there (Green Lane). That was the place seen in UK4's 'Undercover Mosque' if you want an idea of Islam's brand of thinking in that area. Tossing homosexuals from cliffs was one of the sermon topics...

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I'm Brian and so's my wife.

---Life of Brian

[dub]

There's plenty of Jews against the conflict in Gaza. Most live in free countries where it is permited (and a luxury) to go against the grain of history. I wonder if the boys in Hamas would have stood up to save Mr Kaufman's granny from the fires? Or perhaps they'd be too busy helping their Nazi hero/icon, the Grand Mufti stuff her into an oven?

Ever been to Manchester? I have. Telling me it isn't one of those hotbeds of radical Islam in the UK won't fly with this cowboy. One of the most radical mosques in England is located there (Green Lane). That was the place seen in UK4's 'Undercover Mosque' if you want an idea of Islam's brand of thinking in that area. Tossing homosexuals from cliffs was one of the sermon topics...

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I'm Brian and so's my wife.

---Life of Brian

i was actually born in manchester, but that coincidence does not change anything and it's not relevant. over 80% of kaufman's riding is white and what you said earlier is a crock of shit.

[DogOnPorch]

Then we have something in common. Lived in Blackburn. My mistake as well...Green Lane is in Birmingham (Midlands cities all look alike to me). Either way, he has to pander to a contituancy that will hit the streets if they get upset. The 80% he doesn't have to worry about.

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It's a Daisy.

[dub]

Then we have something in common. Lived in Blackburn. My mistake as well...Green Lane is in Birmingham (Midlands cities all look alike to me). Either way, he has to pander to a contituancy that will hit the streets if they get upset. The 80% he doesn't have to worry about.

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It's a Daisy.

no dogonporch. you're now just trying to cover.

could it be that this jewish man actually believes what he says and he's not pandering?

[DogOnPorch]

no dogonporch. you're now just trying to cover.

could it be that this jewish man actually believes what he says and he's not pandering?

Mr Kaufman isn't the only fellow with family affected by the Holocaust. He's dragging his dead granny around by her grave. Personally, I think it's a tasteless political ploy to satisfy his constituents. A little too close to the action, me thinks. Most folks up on the issue know the MCB's feelings about the Holocaust. I doubt his Muslim constituents feel that much differently.

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The mate was fixed by the bosun's pike---The bosun brained with a marlinspike

And cookey's throat was marked belike---It had been gripped by fingers ten;

And there they lay, all good dead men---Like break o'day in a boozing ken

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

---RLS

Edited January 25, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[JB Globe]

Mr Kaufman isn't the only fellow with family affected by the Holocaust. He's dragging his dead granny around by her grave.

Actually, I think his point is pro-occupation Israeli supporters are dragging the memory of his Bubie by exploiting the memory of the holocaust for their own political gain. It sounds like he's saying leave the Holocaust out of it, and I as a Jew concur - if you can't justify your policies based on rational reasons, don't try and create a myth that regardless of how strong Israel is and the situation on the ground, that Israel will always be a victim in any conflict, no matter what.

AIPAC does it, Likhud, Kadima & Labour all do it. I personally think it's a totally inaccurate comparison to say that Jewish victimization in the Holocaust = what's happening in Israel right now.

[Oleg Bach]

He who forgets his or her history is doomed to repeat it, or at least give it a try for the first time not heeding how badly it ended for some....It is possible to be so hyper vigilant and dogmatic that you do become what you so vigorously and intergenerationally resisted you sometimes become. It's to bad that Israel did not have some good leadership - wise and informed and connected humane leadership - If there was a miracle needed at this point in time it would be to raise ANN FRANK - From the grave and make her the new leader...THEN we would have true and good perspective and wisdom in the holy land - lest we forget - and it seems we all did!

[DogOnPorch]

Actually, I think his point is pro-occupation Israeli supporters are dragging the memory of his Bubie by exploiting the memory of the holocaust for their own political gain. It sounds like he's saying leave the Holocaust out of it, and I as a Jew concur - if you can't justify your policies based on rational reasons, don't try and create a myth that regardless of how strong Israel is and the situation on the ground, that Israel will always be a victim in any conflict, no matter what.

AIPAC does it, Likhud, Kadima & Labour all do it. I personally think it's a totally inaccurate comparison to say that Jewish victimization in the Holocaust = what's happening in Israel right now.

I really haven't heard much from Jews/Israelis on the subject of the Holocaust in reference to Gaza. It seems more the Hamas supporters dragging out images of the Warsaw Ghetto...like there's really a comparison.

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Freedom ain’t cheap, don’t be a rat and sometimes you have to literally fight to be free.

---Sonny Barger

[Oleg Bach]

I wonder how many Jewish grand fathers sit down with the young and tacitly preach ---"If they kill one Jew - we kill one thousand of them ----- The eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth seems almost logical if you are to have defensive revenge...but to knock out all of the avesarys teeth and to blind him and his whole family totally is unexceptable - damn it ---- a human life is precious! Christ said of the sacred individual..."I have not come to save the whole flock but to save the one single sheep that has fallen into the pit" - What he preached was this "Is the live of one good man worth the whole empire of Rome" - I WOULD SAY NOT...once the right of the individual is lost - the rights of the collective are worthless...Israel is not special...You do not hover over a cordoned off rat trap and bomb what you consider rats. The average Jew wants peace and is ready to negotate that peace - BUT the high archy in Washington and Jerusalem - find war lucrative...that's the problem - Israel is held hostage and brainwashed by lost holocaust rhetoricals that justify murder and theft...Just like the OT or Tora - where bad behaviour is glorified.

[He Who Hesistates]

The average Jew wants peace and is ready to negotate that peace -

That is certainly true. On the other hand, how many members of Hamas would sit down across the table? I hesitate to say that there is no bargaining with terrorists- but bargaining is certainly not possible with the militantly stupid. At least, not without making them very sure that you can hit them harder than they can hit you. And that is what Israel has done.

If, for example, Iceland starting firing rockets at Canadian cities, killing several people a day, what measures would you feel appropriate? What if there rocket bases were deeply hidden inside densely populated civilian centres?

I am not saying that Israel has been blameless in this affair- or even close- but they don't have many good options.

Edited January 26, 2009 by He Who Hesistates

[ft.niagara]

...but to knock out all of the avesarys teeth and to blind him and his whole family totally is unexceptable - damn it ---- a human life is precious!

Your referring to Christ is inappropriate here. What Christ would have done is irrelevent since you are talking about the Jews and the Muslims. You are not talking New Testament vs Koran, you are talking Old Testament vs Koran. Rules, damn it.....there are no rules.

[M.Dancer]

those are strong accusations by a holocaust survivor who has lived in israel.

How does one, born in leeds become a holocaust survivor?

[JB Globe]

I really haven't heard much from Jews/Israelis on the subject of the Holocaust in reference to Gaza.

The Holocaust isn't used by Hawkish Jews and Israelis when dealing with specific incidents (such as the recent Gaza attacks) but more so when dealing with the existential questions surrounding Israel's existence. ie - Israel occupies the West Bank & Gaza for "security reasons" and if it didn't there would be another Holocaust, therefore: Israel cannot make compromises on security, and by extension Israel cannot give up Gaza & the West Bank, ever.

[JB Globe]

That is certainly true. On the other hand, how many members of Hamas would sit down across the table? I hesitate to say that there is no bargaining with terrorists- but bargaining is certainly not possible with the militantly stupid.

Hamas hasn't even been invited to the table in 20 years so it's hard to say. Although I will say that while Hamas might be reprehensible they are also not completely irrational, they'll negotiate, but like any party they have their own terms.

If, for example, Iceland starting firing rockets at Canadian cities, killing several people a day, what measures would you feel appropriate?

I feel the appropriate measure would be to end the 40-year occupation of Iceland.

I am not saying that Israel has been blameless in this affair- or even close- but they don't have many good options.

Then why did they pick the option with the worst long-term consequences? It's because while the Israeli public might want a two-state solution theoretically, they still need to fulfill their obligations to their tribal mentality and hit back with a head-for-an-eye approach. (fyi, Palestinians also theoretically support a two state solution, yet support military attacks against Israel) Any politician who dares suggests negotiation is a better solution to rocket attacks than war would be sacked - even though in a year Hamas will probably have re-built the supply tunnels and re-supplied with rockets, thus rendering the Gaza invasion useless.

[Argus]

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

video of his speech: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8&eurl=[/b]

powerful.

more and more jews and israelis are speaking out against israel's atrocities.

I don't know where you ever got the idea that just because you're a Jew you can't be an ignorant fool, or a slimey, two faced snake who does and says whatever he thinks will profit you the most.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Argus

[Argus]

no dogonporch. you're now just trying to cover.

could it be that this jewish man actually believes what he says and he's not pandering?

Could it be he's no smarter than you?

[Argus]

I feel the appropriate measure would be to end the 40-year occupation of Iceland.

Okay, and after you do that and they continue to fire rockets at you, then what?

[Argus]

Actually, I think his point is pro-occupation Israeli supporters are dragging the memory of his Bubie by exploiting the memory of the holocaust for their own political gain. It sounds like he's saying leave the Holocaust out of it,

Right, and then he himself brings up his Holocaust connections in order to lend legitimacy to his bufoonish statements.

[Argus]

i was actually born in manchester, but that coincidence does not change anything and it's not relevant. over 80% of kaufman's riding is white and what you said earlier is a crock of shit.

Actually, it's more like 70%. But that's more than sufficient, as it is in Canada, to give the minority which votes in a clannish fashion, considerable power in selecting the MP. In Ottawa, for example, a bit over 30% of Ottawa-Vanier - in Ontario are French. The riding, as a result, has voted solidly Liberal for over a hundred years - and solidly French. You will generally find that all parties running candidates there will have Francophone candidates because they know that Francophones won't vote for an Anglo if there is an alternative. Anglos, on the other hand, being much less bigoted, will not tend to care so much. So even though the riding is only about 30% French, it has always been represented by Francophones. You can find the same sorts of demographics involving other minorities in Canada, be they Asians or Indians. If 30% of a riding is made of of Indians it will have an Indian MP, and likely all the candidates will be Indians. Even if not you can be damned sure whoever gets in will be doing all he can to please the Indians.

[dub]

Actually, it's more like 70%. But that's more than sufficient, as it is in Canada, to give the minority which votes in a clannish fashion, considerable power in selecting the MP. In Ottawa, for example, a bit over 30% of Ottawa-Vanier - in Ontario are French. The riding, as a result, has voted solidly Liberal for over a hundred years - and solidly French. You will generally find that all parties running candidates there will have Francophone candidates because they know that Francophones won't vote for an Anglo if there is an alternative. Anglos, on the other hand, being much less bigoted, will not tend to care so much. So even though the riding is only about 30% French, it has always been represented by Francophones. You can find the same sorts of demographics involving other minorities in Canada, be they Asians or Indians. If 30% of a riding is made of of Indians it will have an Indian MP, and likely all the candidates will be Indians. Even if not you can be damned sure whoever gets in will be doing all he can to please the Indians.

not sure what you're babbling about.

the link from manchester city that was provided earlier shows at exactly 81.5% of the people living in the region are "white".

and furthermore, did you even READ what this is about and WHERE this is about or did you go into one of your zion fury mode and try to twist and turn things and start babbling about issues that do not matter? not only that, but you're talking about canada when we're talking about an MP in the UK.

the important factor is that sir gerald kaufman, a jewish MP, and who has lived in israel and who was a zionist has said the following:

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

Edited January 26, 2009 by dub