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It is funny to see the NDP take credit for CPP. Funny to see them take credit for the Charter of Rights as well when the Implied Bill of Rights preceded their existence in any form as a party. They certainly take credit for healthcare on the provincial front but they should remember that the drive for a national program came from a Conservative by the name of Diefenbaker years before Saskatchewan had a program.

Yah it is funny the first leader of the CCF J.S. Woodsworth pushed through CPP under King when that man wouldn't honour any of his promises and Woodsworth was in the Progressive party.

The NDP takes credit for the Charter because not only were they the first to have a Bill of rights, but they were also the first to suggest a "Charter of rights and freedoms" that was 1950 the Liberals were thought Tommy was crazy then. Yah History sucks when you actually learn it Dobbin.

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and yet... for all your trumped up claims about what the NDP can take credit for... they remain mired in after-thought status, barely able to break out of the teens in popular support - even seeing the Greens poised to take over the 3rd-tier positioning the NDP has grasped onto for eons. Wassup with that? For all your posturing and credit taking, why hasn't the NDP been able to break through?

Edited by waldo
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I didn't say the government doesn't play a role, regulations are of course required; but that role is not to the extent that the NDP or you apparently are suggesting. Limiting interest rates, fees, surcharges etc. for services rendered is not the business of government. There is absolutely nothing you can say that will convince me of that. There's a reason that communism failed, any price cap set is artificial and is not sustainable based on supply and demand. Whether you want to accept it or not, supply and demand affects all things, setting an artificial ceiling will by pass it temporarily, but reality always comes crashing back. The free market is not evil, big corporations are not evil and all workers are not poor, disabused and disenfranchised. Without large private corporations a good 80% of Canadians would be unemployed.

I'm so tired of this NDP anti-corporation propaganda. It doesn't wash with most Canadians and until they let it go they'll never gain much more support than what they already have. It's time to drop the "evil corporations are out to get us" routine; it demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the way our economy works. We can't set an artificial ceiling on prices, that model has proven to fail time and time again. Supply and demand will always dictate prices.

If you can't afford the interest rate on a credit card no one is forcing you to use it. You don't get charged interest if you don't carry a balance, if you are carrying a balance then chances are you can't really afford whatever it is you put on the card. Our actions are our own responsibility.

You want a fully government regulated economy? Well there isn't one that exists at present; I'd suggest you move to Russia circa 1980.

I am not suggesting anything like the words you are putting in my mouth. I am however suggesting that at some points the government has to step in to protect the Canadian consumer. It isn't right that they are nickeled and dimed and offered no other option, and the government sits back and lets this happen. I am all for corporate profit and private enterprise am not for hurting Canadians to have it.

I am not going to blame hardworking Canadians such as you are for the way the market works. The market is there to make money as fast as it can. If that means setting a price artificially high to take 10% more a year out of a working persons pocket then so be it. The government is there to make sure that something like this doesn't happen. Cause guess what with out hard working Canadians 100% of the work and profit in this country wouldn't exist.

Credit cards are fine they make money hand over fist. However when they charge 19-30% interest and someone gets in trouble and goes bankrupt that hurts the whole economy. You have to remember that it only hurts that Credit Card company but it hurts the car company of that family hasn't paid off there car, it hurts the debt they may have on a television set or dishwasher, the landlord they pay rent too and so on. It also hurts that family in the future. That and those banks giving out those credit card well they are lent too by the Canadian people at an interest rate right now of .25%. So sure we can legislate their rates, and I am not talking something crazy but if they want the loans from the Canadian people they better be ready to listen to them too.

As you said no one is forcing the banks to take loans from us. If they don't like the rules we set well maybe they shouldn't ask for them. Welcome to the mix public private system. Unlike communism it hasn't failed it is the best system in the world.

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and yet... for all your trumped up claims about what the NDP can take credit for... they remain mired in after-thought status, barely able to break out of the teens in popular support - even seeing the Greens positioning to take over the 3rd-tier positioning the NDP has grasped onto for eons. Wassup with that? For all your posturing and credit taking, why hasn't the NDP been able to break through?

At national level that might be true but they have broken through in almost every province now and have made it so the Liberals don't truly exist in a lot of places. I don't know why Canada wont give them a chance on the national level but maybe that will change someday.

I find Liberals love to play the NDP will never win card though. I always ask do you say that becuase you have no ideas and nothing to run on? Don't worry we aren't going away there is 16% of the public that seems to be pretty happy voting NDP.

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Don't worry we aren't going away there is 16% of the public that seems to be pretty happy voting NDP.

well... splintering the left, central-left vote maintains the avenue for the Reformatories to continue forward. Take solace in your 16% support that will never materialize into an actual governing status.

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well... splintering the left, central-left vote maintains the avenue for the Reformatories to continue forward. Take solace in your 16% support that will never materialize into an actual governing status.

Actually right now there is a splintering of the Right becuase the Liberals right now are so far to the right I don't even recognize them as a centre political party. So don't worry it isn't the lefts votes which are being spilt if anything the NDP are the only party right now (and the Bloc) fighting to keep the Tories in line. The Liberals voted against EI improvements how is that a left policy? They voted for mandatory minimums for drug crimes how is that a left policy? They voted against pay equity for women how is that a left policy?

Maybe that BS arguement works on someone who doesn't follow politics waldo but we all know right the Liberals are a right of centre party and you are trying to scare voters into supporting them for some reason beyond me.

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and yet... for all your trumped up claims about what the NDP can take credit for... they remain mired in after-thought status, barely able to break out of the teens in popular support - even seeing the Greens poised to take over the 3rd-tier positioning the NDP has grasped onto for eons. Wassup with that? For all your posturing and credit taking, why hasn't the NDP been able to break through?

The lies the NDP tell. It is hilarious. The contributory CPP started when Diefenbaker got the ball rolling in 1957 and Pearson put into place between 1963 and 1965. All they do is lie and try to take credit for things that they didn't do.

As for the Implied Bill of Rights, they existed long before the NDP ever came to existence. Long before the CCF came into existence. That would be 1867. So tell me which NDP leader was around then? All legislation that came after that flowed from what the judiciary was already doing.

Is it no wonder that the NDP with all it bloviating tends to get kicked in the balls when it tried to take credit for things?

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I'm far from a fan of the NDP but in many places in the country they have replaced the Liberals as the alternative to the Tories such as BC, Alt, Sask, Man and Ont minus Toronto/GTA.

The last major poll taken only a week ago with a large sample showed the NDP in third place in Manitoba.

http://www.probe-research.com/090930%20Fed...20Standings.pdf

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The lies the NDP tell. It is hilarious. The contributory CPP started when Diefenbaker got the ball rolling in 1957 and Pearson put into place between 1963 and 1965. All they do is lie and try to take credit for things that they didn't do.

As for the Implied Bill of Rights, they existed long before the NDP ever came to existence. Long before the CCF came into existence. That would be 1867. So tell me which NDP leader was around then? All legislation that came after that flowed from what the judiciary was already doing.

Is it no wonder that the NDP with all it bloviating tends to get kicked in the balls when it tried to take credit for things?

Actually the CPP was the direct result of the "Old age pension plan" which was enacted by the King in 1927 who only did it becuase he needed the Progressive Party in order to form government. This wasn't done to satisfy the progressive but to satisfy one man J. S. Woodsworth who later formed the CCF and became the first leader. Sorry about History though Dobbin I know it escapes you. I suggest you learn little more about this country before you start with this crap again.

I will agree with you Dobbin the NDP didn't invent rights. They however did create the idea that when these rights are put on paper and made law people wouldn't be screwed having to fight for their rights all the way to the supreme court. Not everyone was a rich Liberal back then and having a written law meant they were clear. They were also the first party to suggest constitutional bill of rights although the Liberals laughed at them in the 50s when they did. Again learning some history might help you here.

The truth is tough. Pick up a book.

Edited by punked
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well... splintering the left, central-left vote maintains the avenue for the Reformatories to continue forward. Take solace in your 16% support that will never materialize into an actual governing status.

Certainly, they won't get far by lying about creating CPP. Think they must be confused about a plan where people contributed to their own pensions through work.

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I'm so tired of this NDP anti-corporation propaganda. It doesn't wash with most Canadians and until they let it go they'll never gain much more support than what they already have. It's time to drop the "evil corporations are out to get us" routine; it demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the way our economy works. We can't set an artificial ceiling on prices, that model has proven to fail time and time again. Supply and demand will always dictate prices.

It is why people distrust the NDP since they can't seem to get away from being against big companies. Unfortunately for them, it is big companies that employ more of their members than any other type of business.

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Certainly, they won't get far by lying about creating CPP. Think they must be confused about a plan where people contributed to their own pensions through work.

I honestly don't think you know, or are just lying about not knowing, the History of the Canadian Pension plan. The Old Age Pension Plan was the corner stone to CPP and OAS in Canada. Created by and forced through by the founder of the CCF while he was a member of the Progressive party. Anyone who wants to can look it up and know Dobbin is wrong.

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It is why people distrust the NDP since they can't seem to get away from being against big companies. Unfortunately for them, it is big companies that employ more of their members than any other type of business.

Actually small bisuness employes more people in Canada and the NDP is the only Party to try and force through a small bisuness tax cut. The good thing about not being the Big Business party like the Liberals is we don't have to lie to defend them like Dobbin seems to feel he must. Although I have no problem with large bisuness I just think the Government has a roll in the governess of these organizations.

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:rolleyes: Yeah, instead you just take credit for things that you didn't do.

Which would be what? Give me the History of the CPP with out the Old age Pension Plan included. Ohhhh right the Conservatives just created the CPP with out doing anything with the OAPP that makes perfect sense. Seriously look into it. Dobbin is lying.

Maybe you should read Service Canada's page on it.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/oas/oasoverview.shtml

And I quote

"The Old Age Security Act came into force in 1952, replacing legislation from 1927 requiring the federal government to share the cost of provincially-run, means-tested old age benefits"

Yah the 1927 Legislation was created by the Leader of the CCF that fact escapes you though right?

Edited by punked
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:rolleyes: Yeah, instead you just take credit for things that you didn't do.

It has to be the biggest whopper I have seen here in a while from a lying NDP that they created CPP. They lump it in with OAS which clearly it isn't since it is plan that is a contributory plan from workers. I don't remember any NDP being the primaries on this. Give credit where credit is due and that is John Diefenbaker and the the Progressive Conservatives who pushed the idea and to the Liberals who completed it.

The statement that "we created CPP" is big brass balls of a lie on the part of an overzealous NDP member who looks for any political opportunity even when it is a death as what we saw in Ontario. Totally repugnant.

Edited by jdobbin
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It has to be the biggest whopper I have seen here in a while from a lying NDP that they created CPP. They lump it in with OAS which clearly it isn't since it is plan that is a contributory plan from workers. I don't remember any NDP being the primaries on this. Give credit where credit is due and that is John Diefenbaker and the the Progressive Conservatives who pushed the idea and to the Liberals who completed it.

The statement that "we created CPP" is big brass balls of a lie.

Ohhhh I get it Dobbin saying the Bill of Rights idea isn't ours because something existed in idea before it is wrong. However in the same breath you say saying the CPP is an NDP idea is wrong even though service Canada says that the Old Age Pension Plan was the stepping stone to the CPP we don't get to say that was our idea because we weren't in power when it was changed. Here is a news flash JS wanted more in 1925 but has to take what the Liberals would give him for his vote at the time. Having a Pension plan for those in their old age has been a part of the party from the time of the Regina Manifesto.

Edited by punked
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I can't believe how bewildered some NDP are or how much they lie about CPP. OAS and CPP are two different plans and the NDP did not create CPP.

It is a contributory plan related to workers and not just based on old age.

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/oas-cpp/index.shtml

It is a separate plan and is different from OAS.

Big brass balls of a lie and they've been caught out.

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I can't believe how bewildered some NDP are or how much they lie about CPP. OAS and CPP are two different plans and the NDP did not create CPP.

It is a contributory plan related to workers and not just based on old age.

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/oas-cpp/index.shtml

It is a separate plan and is different from OAS.

Big brass balls of a lie and they've been caught out.

Yes they are and up until 1964 we only had one type of Pension. The Old Age Pension Plan which was dropped when OAS was adopted, however with out the Old Age Pension Plan or the NDP pushing from 1940 onward for strong pension for those in their old age we might never had either. Like it or not the OAPP was the stepping stone and Corner stone for Canada's public retirement income system which is both CPP and OAS. However I can see how the history of it all escapes you Dobbin.

I agree the CCF's contributory plan was less about investment and more about saving and paying into as a plan more like EI which was another NDP idea. That however is semantics the CCF/NDP had been calling for it for a long time and forced through legislation creating the first model.

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