School trips & fundraisng opinions

[Trax]

Hello all! Just looking for some opinions & I am hoping that this is the right place to ask.

Recently I had an experience with my teen’s high school. The music teacher planned a trip to a musical production about 1hr 15 min bus ride from the school. The plan was to attend the show & then have dinner & do some shopping in the city afterwards. The show & bus would cost $50.00 per student and the kids would need extra cash for dinner and shopping.

The permission form came home on a Wednesday & had to be in by Friday as the trip was scheduled for the following Wednesday.

I was told by the teacher that it was “part of the curriculum” but then I was told that my child wasn’t required to go. I was also told that if I “couldn’t afford” the trip, the school would fund my child’s participation. They explained that I shouldn’t feel uncomfortable with them paying the bill & that they wouldn’t tell anyone.

I was told that the school would not participate or allow the students to participate in fundraisers for trips, only for charity.

I understand that schools make up their own rules about this stuff but I was wondering if some guidelines might be a good idea. I fully support kids taking part in trips and activities. I would love to see them put effort into raising a portion of the money needed through creative and innovative fundraising events. The lessons they would learn in the pursuit of the goal might just be as important as the goal itself.

As our economic condition changes, educators have an opportunity to show consideration when making decisions that affect parents. I would love to have better communication with the school but right now, it seems like the teachers & administrators are an elite group that don’t want to be bothered with the input from a mere parent.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences? Any advice or solutions that might be appropriate?

[OddSox]

I was told that the school would not participate or allow the students to participate in fundraisers for trips, only for charity.

I suspect that the above is the policy/guideline and it has likely been established at the school board level.

[Oleg Bach]

That does not make sense. For a school board to say that you can only raise money for charity but not for a school trip? You woud think that a school trip was quite charitable. If they could afford to take school trips by using the public money in the boards purse without resorting to fundraisers then I am sure they would - apparently they can not afford the trip through conventional funding - or there would not be this issue. Then if this is the case, resorting to charity sounds like an option.

[Riverwind]

I was told that the school would not participate or allow the students to participate in fundraisers for trips, only for charity.

I generally have no interest in contributing to fundraising events for school trips and would not let my kids participate in such endevours. If a school wishes to plan such a trip it should ask those parents with more means to contribute more so others in the same class can attend. I know that if I can afford to add a 15% tip to the cost of a restaurant bill them I can afford 15% added to the cost of a school outing that would fund others. I suspect that 80-90% of the other parents are in the same situation. Edited November 19, 2008 by Riverwind

[OddSox]

That does not make sense. For a school board to say that you can only raise money for charity but not for a school trip? You woud think that a school trip was quite charitable. If they could afford to take school trips by using the public money in the boards purse without resorting to fundraisers then I am sure they would - apparently they can not afford the trip through conventional funding - or there would not be this issue. Then if this is the case, resorting to charity sounds like an option.

You expect the "educational elite" in this province to make sense? Take a look at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home for something that really makes sense...

[Oleg Bach]

You expect the "educational elite" in this province to make sense? Take a look at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home for something that really makes sense...

I heard a radio report about this projection of inforced stupity and civil submission to taking it up the but intellectually. If I could give you the same advice I gave myself - ignore it...this is the same advice I wold give a person that enters into the courts - don't bother - boycott them..they are useless...This reminds me of the biblical beast. A beast to me is a collective of humans - a conspiring single corporate entity that attempts to force it's will on the individual mind and spirit. The one saving grace and hope in dealing with this type of draconian dragon beast is that it does not have a brain - or leader ...it is on auto-pilot and tends to short circut because it is a very complex bureacracy...being so it falls apart when one of it's weakes links breaks - usually from the sick side effects of prozac. You can ignore them but they are dangerous because of the sheer numbers - much like fire ants. Emotional response to such stupidy in the form of anger just fuels this thing....what I do is stop informing it - it will not change just becomes more dangerous and irritating with the added knowledge of how a good and intelligent person thinks - give them nothing and starve the IT.

[Bryan]

The problem with fundraising for your kids is, it often doesn't really raise funds in the end.

I know I've pretty much had enough of it. Between daycare, lacrosse, basketball, hockey, band, and other school related expenses, it seems like I've been fundraising for things for my son for his entire life. Every couple of months there's something else. The problem is, if you expect friends, family, neighbors and co-workers to support your kids' causes, you have to be willing to support theirs. What ends up happening, is you still pay the same amount of money out of pocket, it just gets spread around instead of getting all paid up in one place. With the added bonus of taking a lot more time out of your already far too busy schedule.

[Trax]

Great points everyone & I appreciate the insights.

I have a few thoughts and points to add.

I agree that if parents & teachers are doing the fundraisers then it defeats the purpose.

I read some ideas on the Ontario Student Debating Union website & was really impressed with the concepts that the group suggested. They talk about the students organizing & executing original events that offer real value to the community.

The position on trips & fundraising was the opinion of a particular principal and not the District School Board. I understand that each school has its own procedures & policies.

The end result in this case was that there was a division in the classes. The students that did not attend the trip were left out of the excitement and discussions before and after the event. In a small town, it is not reasonable to expect a parent that works hard to keep things on track to approach a school, hat in hand, and ask for the other parents to pay their child's way. They would feel completely humiliated.

A wise old man recently said simply, "If you have a hundred dolla...dont spend a hundred ten dolla"

Is a trip to see a play worth putting that much pressure on a parent? Couldn't there be more economical options closer to home? Would it be fair to give parents more than 2 days notice for such an event?

If you are a teacher or administrator- you don't have to worry about your hours being cut next month due to economic conditions. You don't have to fear a lay-off or job loss. You don't have the risk of losing your business and life savings during a recession. There are real issues facing many of us in the community & it would be nice if the staff at our schools showed the appropriate respect for the time, money and responsibilities of parents when planning trips and events.

[Kitch]

If you are a teacher or administrator- you don't have to worry about your hours being cut next month due to economic conditions. You don't have to fear a lay-off or job loss. You don't have the risk of losing your business and life savings during a recession. There are real issues facing many of us in the community & it would be nice if the staff at our schools showed the appropriate respect for the time, money and responsibilities of parents when planning trips and events.

I understand and sympathize with your position. (I am a teacher by the way). I'm glad that you know that the policy at your child's school is a school policy and not an approach taken by 'education'. But I feel the need to defend my profession.

I hear a lot of people talking about the teaching profession, but few people really understand what teaching is all about, what it's like or how it... works (not that you're one of those people... I don't know). We are definitely fortunate, I won't deny that. But it's not as easy or cushy as you might think. We can, in fact, lose our jobs. It's not, as you point out, dependent on the conditions of the economy, but depends on the population in the region of our schools. Teachers are often (at least in the TDSB) declared redundant, meaning that they no longer have a job. That being said, it's typically teachers with little seniority who suffer this fate... and, in the end, compared to the number of teachers out there, I don't THINK that it's all that common.

I agree with you that it is ridiculous for your child's teacher to ask for funds for a trip with 2 days notice (I think that's the time frame you said they gave). I won't even say that this is an isolated thing and that most teachers would be more sensitive... I don't know if that's the case. But I DO know that I, personally, as well as MANY of the teachers that I know, would initiate the process FAR before the date of the trip. Also, trips to go see plays are indeed very valuable and are an experience that cannot be replaced/replicated in the classroom. For example, every student in high school READS Shakespeare. Shakespeare wrote plays that were performed. His work was not read, it was seen. That being said, reading his work allows students to see the poetry of his words but watching the play allows people to understand what is happening in the story, which is equally as poetic. (This is coming from a science teacher, mind you).

And in further defence of my profession, people see that we get 2 months off in the summer and that we work 6 or 7 hour days, as opposed to the typical 8 or 9 in other occupations. Well, the amount of time we spend in class is probably equal to the amount of time we spend working after school or at home (and I'm not talking about extra curriculars). We have to plan every lesson that we deliver, depending on who you are this might mean planning right down to the words you say. We have to mark endless assignments and tests. We have to manage classrooms filled with children ranging in ability and attitude (including the kids who haven't been parented very well and ruin the learning environment for everybody). Since I started teaching, I fall asleep at 8 or 9 at night, whereas in other jobs I would get up at the same time and not go to bed until 10 or 11. The two months off is time for us to recover from a very stressful and intense school year. Don't get me wrong here. I admit that we're lucky. We have one of the most noble and rewarding jobs that exist. I'm just saying it's not as easy as some people think.

But, your experience, as far as I understand it, is the result of an inconsiderate person and ill considered school policies, not teachers in general. So please don't further stigmatize us. We're already less respected than we used to be, and it's resulting in very difficult classes to manage. Kids show up late these days and we call parents to inform them... you know what a surprising number of parents say? "My son/daughter just likes to sleep in." For real?? The teacher is seen as the problem now, not the person who is in the second best position to solve problems. The first being parents. So, again, please don't speak poorly of "teachers". Trash a certain teacher all you want, but I personally am not at fault for your experience here.

[Trax]

Thanks Kitch for your input on this. I agree that my concerns would only apply to some teachers, not all.

I know many teachers that are quite considerate. My concerns are in no way intended to be directed at all teachers.

You made a good point about the hours you spend working etc. You stated that you teach science and I would expect that the nature of the subject alone would affect the workload of both the student and the teacher. I hope that there are ways of balancing workload in schools and that teachers are rewarded appropriately for the work that they do.

I agree that seeing a play has a stronger impact than reading about it. Especially if you are studying the literary works of Shakespeare. That is taught in English isn't it? In our case, we are in Niagara. There are many local opportunities to view performances in order to illustrate a lesson being taught in Music or Drama. I am sure that the transportation cost alone would have a huge impact on the cost of the trips.

In this case, the trip to Toronto was being planned as the teacher got a "deal" on tickets and decided to purchase a block of last minute seats on her credit card. That is why we had short notice.

I tried to explain to the principal that perhaps they could give parents the heads up at the beginning of the course. They could simply advise that parents should be prepared for the possibility of a last minute trip in the event that it means discounts on ticket prices. They could also commit to keep costs below a certain number for a maximum number of trips. For example, all trips in this class will not total more than $100 in total and the number of events will not exceed 3 trips per semester. That way, when we get the permission form, it isn't a shock.