Won't back crime bills, MPs say

[Argus]

Your Mayor "The data, released Thursday, shows residents of Nova Scotia reported the second highest rate of victimization, at 157 incidents per 1,000 population. Only Alberta was higher, at a rate of 160.

In fact, Halifax is the census metropolitan area with the highest rate of violent incidents per capita. There were 71,000 violent incidents in 2004, for a rate of 229. Toronto has more incidents but its rate is 107."

Since, on the surface, such numbers make no sense whatsoever, I'm going to assume, unless you can show otherwise, that the difference is based not on Halifax being more violent but on a different manner of calculating statistics.

[Argus]

If it were up to the Tories, there would be vigilante justice where people could shoot each other down and dispense with those courts and lawyers who only muck up the works.

Justice is justice. Some of you bleeding hearts seem to forget that the only actual point to having a justice system is to ensure you punish the right person - not to ensure the person being tried is treated with respect, love, and given as much sympathy and help as they can in their time of need.

If you know who it was - without doubt - then it really makes no practical difference if they're punished by a private individual or by the state - so long as the punishment is fair, given the crime committed.

[Argus]

Here's what I'd do if I was Harper, I'd offer, on national television, not to send this kid on to adult prison now, as long as either Stephan Dion or Gilles Duceppe offered to let him stay at their house for the next few years. They're so desperately concerned about the plight of teenagers whose sentences carry over into their adult years I'm sure that one or both will generously offer to take the lil tyke into their homes. No doubt with a few hugs he'll be perfectly normal, and no danger to anyone.

Twisted Kid

[Smallc]

No, just a quick 'adjustment' and send them on their way...

Actually, I would imagine in the not so distant future, that may be possible with some.

[wulf42]

Only a liberal would consider killing a murderer to be wrong.

Exactly right...that is why Liberals must never lead this country again, this way of thinking will destroy Canada...........give murderers what they deserve...a firing squad!

[jdobbin]

I've said before, I don't think it will be a confidence vote right out of the gate. I believe he will bring the bill forward as-is (comprimises have already been made) as a non-confidence vote so the public can clearly see where each party stands - and according to the polls, Canadians will not be happy if it doesn't pass. If that's the case, the Conservatives will make some minor changes and bring it back as a confidence measure.....having shown that they tried to make Parliament work.

Harper initially said no changes, no compromise, like it or go to an election.

Well, I think if he tries to go to an election on a crime bill during a recession, he will be thrown out.

[OddSox]

Harper initially said no changes, no compromise, like it or go to an election.

Well, I think if he tries to go to an election on a crime bill during a recession, he will be thrown out.

He did? So far this whole thread has been based on something some Liberal said...and I'm not even sure of that.

[jdobbin]

He did? So far this whole thread has been based on something some Liberal said...and I'm not even sure of that.

You don't remember the election promise that Harper made? Nicholson said it more than once.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/CanadaV...6833156-cp.html

- A minority Conservative government would rather force another election than back down on its law and order agenda, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said Sunday.

Nicholson told a rally in Mississauga, Ont., that Prime Minister Stephen Harper has already made clear he would not tolerate any more "obstruction" like the government faced last October when it introduced the Tackling Violent Crime Act omnibus bill.

"We're making it very clear about how serious we are about getting that anti-crime agenda through Parliament," he said.

Harper said zero tolerance. He meant to go to an election immediately if there was not immediate and complete capitulation.

The Liberals believed and probably continue to believe that the Tories were going to call an election even if they got their way so why bother waiting?

Edited November 15, 2008 by jdobbin

[DrGreenthumb]

I would bet that the violent crime rate is directly related to the ammount of alcohol being consumed in the area. Almost all violent crimes around here involve overuse of alcohol. I would support tougher punishments for criminals when we rightly start to define crime as harm done to others and stop criminalizing people for what they do to themselves. We need to immediately change our approach to dealing with substance abuse and enact legislation that regulates substances based on their potential for harm. Criminalizing the mostly peaceful cannabis consumer and the cannabis industry while allowing the alcohol industry to run rampant is senseless and destructive to our society. I would start by immediately banning advertising of alcohol products. The alcohol companies blatently use sex to sell alcohol, and market their products openly to our young men and women. Why do we allow the producers of this potentially very dangerous drug to "push" their product on our youth? We have far more to worry about from the overuse of alcohol and pharmaceuticals(another big drug pusher industry) than we do from all the illegal substances combined. The negative effects from a substance should be the deterent from use of that substance, not the legal ramifications. The law should not cause more harm to the individual than use of the substance it aims to deter. Even if heroin were legal I would never consider using it because I know it is dangerous, just look at all the dead rock stars, etc that have died from it. When the government has some credibility people will heed their warnings about dangerous drugs. As long as they keep insisting that cannabis, and other plant based drugs are deadly and dangerous people will continue ignoring their warnings about drugs that actually ARE dangerous.

As long as we leave popular drugs on the black market where people have no legal recourse when they feel wronged, or ripped off, gro-ripped etc, we will have people forced to take justice into their own hands and people will keep getting hurt. Almost all the violence in the illegal drug trade is financially motivated not a result of the effects of drug use.

Cannabis use is so commonplace and accepted socially in our society that the conservatives look like idiots and prudes when they spout their war on drugs propaganda nonsense.

[Oleg Bach]

You don't get it. Why would any party want to stop crime. Crime frustrates and destablizes society - a flustered society is so much easier to rule. When you see the tacit policy practiced by judges in the release of violent offenders..it could be for only one reason - The judicary and their handlers who are the policy makers want the results that domestic terrorism brings about. This is sheer monopoly on a grand scale - and a contempt for the citizen - If for instance a Jewish lawyer who practices racism privately - has no quams about non-jews harming themselves as long as they prosper and the infidels perish...or as long as Anglo nominal Christians deploy henchmen via the appointment of certain policy driven judges and lawyers - there will be no real lasting peace - war on your own citizenry is as profitable as war on those abroad...it's all violence.

[Mr.Canada]

You don't remember the election promise that Harper made? Nicholson said it more than once.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/CanadaV...6833156-cp.html

Harper said zero tolerance. He meant to go to an election immediately if there was not immediate and complete capitulation.

The Liberals believed and probably continue to believe that the Tories were going to call an election even if they got their way so why bother waiting?

I doubt the Liberals could even afford any TV slots. They cannot even sell memberships, Bob Rae wants to give them away free, lol. If Dion votes against our brave PM he does so at his own peril and would get blamed for a massive CPC majority!

[jdobbin]

I doubt the Liberals could even afford any TV slots. They cannot even sell memberships, Bob Rae wants to give them away free, lol. If Dion votes against our brave PM he does so at his own peril and would get blamed for a massive CPC majority!

Dion would not be free to make a decision on going to an election. It would be a party decision and if Harper feels foolish to go an election on making Senate changes or on the crime bill when people's attention if focused on the pocketbook, I suspect it will be he who is surprised by the election results.

As for the free party memberships, it is being used on the provincial levels and seems quite successful. Have you look at that yet?

[Oleg Bach]

People would rather be surrounded by crime and have a healthy bank account, than have peace and be poor. Our value system is very base. Curbing crime does not fill the fridge. Look at the legal system and the corporate system...they love crimminality...so there is no hope that people will do what is right - let alone Harper - who by the way is human.

[Kenny]

Liberals (of which I am one) should be ashamed of themselves for not wanting tougher treatment of criminals. The vast majority of people in this country are good, law abiding citizens. They should not have to tolerate the criminality of others, especially violent criminals. This country HAS moved too far to the left on the crime issue. And for the safety of all who are law abiding in this country, we should harshly punish all who are not.