Canada = World's Best Banking System

[jdobbin]

Uhm, no. I don't trust Harper except to act in character, which would be a guy who would do his best to restore confidence and to steer a safe and careful path through rough waters.

So far it is not working. The credit crunch is now getting worse. The Asian markets just opened and are plunging again. The dollar is collapsing overseas.

[Argus]

So far it is not working. The credit crunch is now getting worse. The Asian markets just opened and are plunging again. The dollar is collapsing overseas.

Harper can hardly do much about Asian markets. What he and other world leaders are trying to do is restore some confidence within their own sectors, and unfortunately, that's not helped by Layton and Dion running around screaming that we're headed over the falls.

BTW, the canbuck dropping would probably actually be good for our economy right now so long as it doesn't bring on too much inflationary pressure. It will especially help the hard hit manufacturing sector.

[jdobbin]

Harper can hardly do much about Asian markets. What he and other world leaders are trying to do is restore some confidence within their own sectors, and unfortunately, that's not helped by Layton and Dion running around screaming that we're headed over the falls.

Utter and complete crap and you know that.

No one is taking the least notice of the election on Bay Street. They are watching Asia and will soon be watching Europe and when the market opens on Friday they will react. It remains to be seen whether some investors will start looking for some bargains but there doesn't seem to be evidence that the credit crunch is easing yet.

BTW, the canbuck dropping would probably actually be good for our economy right now so long as it doesn't bring on too much inflationary pressure. It will especially help the hard hit manufacturing sector.

No arguments from me that a lower dollar is good for manufacturing. I am terrified of inflation in a stagnant market. There's no getting around the fact that our number 1 export market is in recession according to the IMF.

A quick downward turn on the dollar could be inflationary.

[Slim MacSquinty]

"If Harper wants to take credit for our banks, by all means. It doesn't mean that he will be able to manage the credit crunch. Nor does it it means he can get the banks to pass on the full 1/2% cut that the Bank of Canada instituted"

I wasn't giving harper credit for the banking system, I wasn't giving any party credit for the banking system, I did say that the Liberals have accused him of "americanizing" our system and clearly that is not true otherwise known as a lie.

Who exactly is managing the credit crunch? The foreign banks are suffering a liquidity crisis, not knowing which banks are liquid and which are not, they've stopped offering credit to one another, the Canadian banks are caught in this even though they have no liquidity issues. Our government has made money available to our banks to lend in our market, thereby making credit available to Canadian consumers that our banks might have gotten from other sources in normal circumstances. In addition the bank of Canada has, in concert with other banks, lowered the prime rate thereby easing the credit market further. These two measures are designed to keep the wheels greased and moving for short term credit purposes.

Jack Layton is making all kinds of stupid promises, how exactly, and under what authority does Jack suppose the government can tell the banks what rate they must lend money out at? There are fixed regulatory caps on the top end but there is no way to force them to lend at the lowest rate.

As Dion demonstrated today, he is unable to articulate any course of action different than Harper's under the present situation, yet it has not inhibited him in anyway from making stupid, inflammitory accusations demonstrating his lack of knowledge and good judgement.

[Visionseeker]

Uh, to all who are getting excited about this “we’re number one” development, there are two things I wish to point out: first, the data used predates this crisis; second, the now bankrupt banking industry of Iceland was in the top ten last year.

Canada’s banks were the only ones who failed to transfer the full cut in prime rates as offered by the world’s central banks. Why?

1- They’re greedy

2- They’re in trouble and need more capital

3- They’re ok, but have been asked by the government to preserve capital to cover for pension liquidity problems

None of these are happy options. Have you got a happy option? Let’s hear it.

[Smallc]

Uh, to all who are getting excited about this “we’re number one” development, there are two things I wish to point out: first, the data used predates this crisis; second, the now bankrupt banking industry of Iceland was in the top ten last year.

Canada’s banks were the only ones who failed to transfer the full cut in prime rates as offered by the world’s central banks. Why?

1- They’re greedy

2- They’re in trouble and need more capital

3- They’re ok, but have been asked by the government to preserve capital to cover for pension liquidity problems

None of these are happy options. Have you got a happy option? Let’s hear it.

The banks are making sure that they don't fall into the same trouble as other banks. You really think that everyone is wrong about the strength of the Canadian banking sector?

[Slim MacSquinty]

Comments from the financial experts stating the stability of Canada's banking sector have been made throughout the crisis including today.

The 1/4 point frankly means nothing and in terms of consumers and will have little impact, in fact the financial sector has been working on a slightly smaller margin in recent months and by holding the 1/4 point they are frankly normalizing the spread.

Banks are by nature greedy, this should be recognized as the status quo.

It has be stated repeatedly they are not in trouble.

Short term (federal) pension money is almost certainly not in the stock market, and the feds frankly would have no problem covering pension payments from current accounts.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Slim MacSquinty

[Alta4ever]

Uh, to all who are getting excited about this “we’re number one” development, there are two things I wish to point out: first, the data used predates this crisis; second, the now bankrupt banking industry of Iceland was in the top ten last year.

Canada’s banks were the only ones who failed to transfer the full cut in prime rates as offered by the world’s central banks. Why?

1- They’re greedy

2- They’re in trouble and need more capital

3- They’re ok, but have been asked by the government to preserve capital to cover for pension liquidity problems

None of these are happy options. Have you got a happy option? Let’s hear it.

No its because Canadian banks are tightening up their lending practices. Its their right to do it, just because the prime rate is down doesn't mean everbody will get a prefered rate just those with good credit rating.

[Alta4ever]

Uh, to all who are getting excited about this “we’re number one” development, there are two things I wish to point out: first, the data used predates this crisis; second, the now bankrupt banking industry of Iceland was in the top ten last year.

Canada’s banks were the only ones who failed to transfer the full cut in prime rates as offered by the world’s central banks. Why?

1- They’re greedy

2- They’re in trouble and need more capital

3- They’re ok, but have been asked by the government to preserve capital to cover for pension liquidity problems

None of these are happy options. Have you got a happy option? Let’s hear it.

No its because Canadian banks are tightening up their lending practices. Its their right to do it, just because the prime rate is down doesn't mean everbody will get a prefered rate just those with good credit rating.

[Visionseeker]

The banks are making sure that they don't fall into the same trouble as other banks. You really think that everyone is wrong about the strength of the Canadian banking sector?

I know "quite a bit" about banking. Not enough to make translational comparisons mind you, but enough to know that the market collapse, credit squeeze, continuing drop in oil prices and the depreciation of our dollar threatens the ability of our pensions to make scheduled payments.

Make no mistake, this sh!t is bad people. Our banks were solid in July, but toxic debt is creeping in (not to mention the ABCP crisis). I wouldn't be surprised to learn 6 months from now that the Ontario Teachers Pension is insolvent.

This isn't a recession, this is a meltdown. Easterners have been getting their medicine in small doses for two years now. But Alberta is in for one hell of a shock.

[craiger]

The regulations may have been put in place by the liberal government but the actual documents and ideas for good banking regulation was drafted up by very conservative and duty bound lawyers who are in service to the nation - it was the conservative mind that came up with a solid and honourable and trust worthy banking system - but lately the old principles are fading and our system is starting to waver - to bad these old QCs are retirement age - who will replace these brilliant and dedicated conservatives when they are gone? Certainly not the sons of Dion - or McGinty the Treadeau boy? The old conservative lawyer is a tough breed and resents upstarts governerned by greed - and liberals are simply and greedy..they love their vices a bit to much. Vices are expensive.

Conservatives offered the 40 year mortgage how can you honestly say that

[Bryan]

Uh, to all who are getting excited about this “we’re number one” development, there are two things I wish to point out: first, the data used predates this crisis; second, the now bankrupt banking industry of Iceland was in the top ten last year.

Canada’s banks were the only ones who failed to transfer the full cut in prime rates as offered by the world’s central banks. Why?

1- They’re greedy

2- They’re in trouble and need more capital

3- They’re ok, but have been asked by the government to preserve capital to cover for pension liquidity problems

None of these are happy options. Have you got a happy option? Let’s hear it.

4- They're being cautious.

Things are good here, but they're bad just about everywhere else. Be carefull, don't make any rash moves, and make sure things STAY good here.

I know my bank already gave me a half percent off my mortgage 6 months ago. They just offered, no strings attached, I was not up for renewal, and I did not have to sign on to a longer term. Why would they cut another half point or quarter point now?

[Argus]

Utter and complete crap and you know that.

No one is taking the least notice of the election on Bay Street.

The panic selling doesn't arise on Bay Street. It's coming from the burbs, where mom and pop are looking at their dwindling RRSPs and getting scared and deciding they have to get out now and put it into savings bonds or something. You can be sure that anyone calling into their broker and telling them to sell now is getting an argument, because the brokers know damned well this is no time to sell, but panicked people don't want to hear it. That's the environment Layton and Dion are affecting.

[jdobbin]

The panic selling doesn't arise on Bay Street. It's coming from the burbs, where mom and pop are looking at their dwindling RRSPs and getting scared and deciding they have to get out now and put it into savings bonds or something. You can be sure that anyone calling into their broker and telling them to sell now is getting an argument, because the brokers know damned well this is no time to sell, but panicked people don't want to hear it. That's the environment Layton and Dion are affecting.

Please. Utter crap. It ain't mom and pop that have been selling. Gimme a break. Most are sitting on their money because that is what their analysts have been telling them to do. It isn't the retail market selling in a panic but the institutional investors.

Only you and your Conservative supporters believe that Dion is having the major influence on mass selling on Bay Street. Those big investors aren't selling like that just because of Dion or anything that is happening in the election.

Edited October 10, 2008 by jdobbin

[Bryan]

Please. Utter crap. It ain't mom and pop that have been selling. Gimme a break. Most are sitting on their money because that is what their analysts have been telling them to do. It isn't the retail market selling in a panic but the institutional investors.

Only you and your Conservative supporters believe that Dion is having the major influence on mass selling on Bay Street. Those big investors aren't selling like that just because of Dion or anything that is happening in the election.

A lot of people are panicking for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of people are also stupid. Only an idiot thinks buy high and sell low is a good idea, in any market.

[jdobbin]

A lot of people are panicking for a lot of different reasons, but a lot of people are also stupid. Only an idiot thinks buy high and sell low is a good idea, in any market.

I would tend to agree. I disagree that it is mom and pop selling like crazy as a result of what Dion said. No one actually at the markets were blaming Dion like the National Post was.

[Moonbox]

I would tend to agree. I disagree that it is mom and pop selling like crazy as a result of what Dion said. No one actually at the markets were blaming Dion like the National Post was.

What you agree or disagree with Jdobbin is based entirely on your partisan view and your almost deliberate effort to remain ignorant about how the markets actually work.

I work in a bank advising clients about investments on an every day basis.

Yes, the institutional investors have sold a lot, but the advantage they had was that they were paying attention to what was going on and they'd already sold a lot of what they had. They contributed to the market plummeting but now the 'mom and pop' type people are jumping on the bandwagon and panicking which is pushing the sell off even further. I know this because I've been dealing with it on a daily basis for about 2.5 months. I have to constantly reassure clients that the Canadian Banks are not going to go belly up and I have to constantly reassure them that their actual deposit balances are insured.

I wouldn't go as far as saying this is Dion's fault, but he and Jack Layton are being alarmists and it is definetly making things worse. They're trying to get people scared because it's politically advantageous for them to do so.

[jdobbin]

What you agree or disagree with Jdobbin is based entirely on your partisan view and your almost deliberate effort to remain ignorant about how the markets actually work.

I work in a bank advising clients about investments on an every day basis.

And you are saying individual investors are panicking just because of Dion. Is that what you are saying? And that is happening again today just because of Dion. Is that your professional view or your partisan view.

The sell-off in Canada is solely, completely, utterly Dion's fault. There is no other reason for it. None at all.

Yes, the institutional investors have sold a lot, but the advantage they had was that they were paying attention to what was going on and they'd already sold a lot of what they had. They contributed to the market plummeting but now the 'mom and pop' type people are jumping on the bandwagon and panicking which is pushing the sell off even further. I know this because I've been dealing with it on a daily basis for about 2.5 months. I have to constantly reassure clients that the Canadian Banks are not going to go belly up and I have to constantly reassure them that their actual deposit balances are insured.

Oh, I'm sure you have seen people call and ask and some sell but you are saying Mom and Pop are are selling like crazy right now and account for this large drop? You are saying it is Dion's fault? He is the only one responsible for the market in Canada?

I wouldn't go as far as saying this is Dion's fault, but he and Jack Layton are being alarmists and it is definetly making things worse. They're trying to get people scared because it's politically advantageous for them to do so.

The National Post and some posting here are saying it is Dion's fault. That strikes me as frothy mouthed hyperpartisan in the extreme.

[Moonbox]

Jdobbin just to throw your own tactics right back in your face, please cite specifically where the National Post says this is all Dion's fault. I have an inkling that you're distorting what they wrote but if you can prove it to me then I'll agree they're full of BS.

You just deconstructed my post where I specifically said it was NOT all Dion's fault. I said he was making it worse by being an alarmist.

Once again, way to ignore everything I said and take the argument in a completely different and ill-conceived direction.

I know that there is a TON of mom and pop's selling off. My father liquidated his equity in September for over $200,000. He's not a particularly wealthy guy. He's just been saving a long time. Yes, I know that's testimonial and you can take that for what you want but if even if a TINY fraction of the population is doing this the sell offs amount to the tens of billions. 10,000 people in a population of 30 something million selling off the same amount as my father accounts for about 2 billion dollars. 0.0003% of the population can cause a 2 billion dollar drop in invested equity.

Most people don't have that kind of equity but what if 0.003% sell off 20,000? Same result. We're probably look at something out of decimals for the percentage of small investors selling off so you do the math. The money out there is HUGE.