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So the federal government tries to spur on business to avoid the province? Another reason to not elect a Tory government.

As I have shown you many times, there are a lot of other strong advantages in the business tax situation in Canada. The manufacturing sector has suffered more from the downward turn in the U.S. than anything else.

When did Flaherty tell people to avoid the province?

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Is that the business friendly government who told investors that it wasn't worth investing in Ontario?

What Flaherty has been trying to do is to get Ontario to cut its high business taxes. Now stop for a moment to consider why he wants Ontario to do that. Out of some selfish political motivation? As has been reported already several times on this forum, corporate tax cuts are a great way of boosting the economy. Most of our competitors have already realized this - and we're talking about socialist competitors here, in Europe. They've slashed their business taxes in order to help their economies. Harper's government has been intent on doing the same here. They can control that at the federal level, but provinces control almost half of business taxes, and Ontario's remain stubbornly high. The federal Tories have been arguing, pleading and trying to cut deals with McGuinty since they've been in power to lower their share of the taxes to no avail. So Flaherty expressed his frustration, probably because, like Harper, he could see this coming, and was trying to prepare the country's business sector for it, and partly because Ontario has been the driving force of the Canadian economy for years, and they wanted to improve its performance in the wake of a steadily worsening manufacturing sector.

Edited by Argus
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So the federal government tries to spur on business to avoid the province? Another reason to not elect a Tory government.

As I have shown you many times, there are a lot of other strong advantages in the business tax situation in Canada. The manufacturing sector has suffered more from the downward turn in the U.S. than anything else.

There are advantage in corporate revenue taxes relative to the rest of North America yes. That advantage erodes very quickly when companies are not making money...kind of like now.

A high capital tax rate discourages companies from starting NEW BUSINESS because it's more expensive to do so here. When entire industries have been shifting away from Ontario for 20 years now why are we discouraging new ones from starting?????

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I'm sure you are confused. I never said he wasn't doing anything. I said that his plans generally wrong ones.

Oh well then I apologise.

Please list the numerous plans which you consider to be incorrect, and why you believe they're incorrect.

Something other than he cut the GST, please. And be specific. What would your party do differently other than tax the hell out of our dying manufacturing sector?

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So the federal government tries to spur on business to avoid the province? Another reason to not elect a Tory government.

As I have shown you many times, there are a lot of other strong advantages in the business tax situation in Canada. The manufacturing sector has suffered more from the downward turn in the U.S. than anything else.

I'm sorry but I must have missed these numerous times you've explained the advantages of having much higher business taxes than most other countries. Would please point me to where you made this extraordinary point so that I might find my economic knowledge expanded?

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"It discourages investment in the province of Ontario," he said. "If you're going to make a new business investment in Canada, and you're concerned about taxes, the last place you will go is the province of Ontario."

He runs down Ontario. If he wants to run for the position of premier, he should resign his federal job.

He should have been fired for his war with Ontario that sent the Tories spinning downward last time he did it.

Harper Tories just attack, attack, attack.

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Because Ontario has the 4th highest capital/investment tax rates of any country/state/province in the WORLD.

If we're bleeding jobs why on earth would you over-tax companies looking to invest new money and create new jobs???????????

Because there are other business taxes in Ontario that are low besides the one you keep focusing on.

I agree Ontario's taxes should be lower. What I disagree with is that Flaherty should stop running down the province from his position in the federal government. If he wants to be premier, run for the job.

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Oh well then I apologise.

Please list the numerous plans which you consider to be incorrect, and why you believe they're incorrect.

I believe he should have left income trusts alone. I still haven't seen evidence that the situation was spiraling out of control. I would not have used tax credits for this and that when it comes to sports and arts. Make a simple tax cut. Stop picking and choosing. Stop spending money faster than even previous Liberal governments.

Something other than he cut the GST, please. And be specific. What would your party do differently other than tax the hell out of our dying manufacturing sector?

When did the Liberals tax the manufacturing sector?

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I'm sorry but I must have missed these numerous times you've explained the advantages of having much higher business taxes than most other countries. Would please point me to where you made this extraordinary point so that I might find my economic knowledge expanded?

Do you even know what Canada's business tax ranks compared to other countries? Have you not read the KPMG report? If not, I'll wait till you have.

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What Flaherty has been trying to do is to get Ontario to cut its high business taxes. Now stop for a moment to consider why he wants Ontario to do that. Out of some selfish political motivation? As has been reported already several times on this forum, corporate tax cuts are a great way of boosting the economy. Most of our competitors have already realized this - and we're talking about socialist competitors here, in Europe. They've slashed their business taxes in order to help their economies. Harper's government has been intent on doing the same here. They can control that at the federal level, but provinces control almost half of business taxes, and Ontario's remain stubbornly high. The federal Tories have been arguing, pleading and trying to cut deals with McGuinty since they've been in power to lower their share of the taxes to no avail. So Flaherty expressed his frustration, probably because, like Harper, he could see this coming, and was trying to prepare the country's business sector for it, and partly because Ontario has been the driving force of the Canadian economy for years, and they wanted to improve its performance in the wake of a steadily worsening manufacturing sector.

Maybe if the Feds helped fix the fiscal imbalance that Ontario says it has and that some conservatives admit is a problem, he can cut taxes. As it stands now, Flaherty ignores this. Instead, they increased transfers to Quebec and they cut taxes.

Funny how that works or do you not see a connection.

McGuinty has pleaded for Harper to listen. He doesn't.

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Oil money continuing to help Canada grow, sucky time for manufacturing.

And for many more industries, one of which does not even have a minister anymore or a portfolio for that matter as I think one needs the other; but that's for economist that look at people like they look at a list of numbers, either 'you are the item belonging to the cost' column', or you are the item belonging on the revenue list' column, and nothing more; so "the first one should be avoided at any and all cost" and the second should be catered to.

Harper's cut on 66 social program have not only hurt our Canadian people losing their jobs, it has also hurt our economy in a big way, cuts like to training for youth and disability groups, cuts to the Arts industry that is big tax return for investment in Canada as this include the film industry, the music industry and various cultural group, which through their own program are themselves a revenue by bringing tourist to every little nook in this big country of Canada, and making our little merchant a seasonal revenue, keeping 3/4 of its population from going hungry and he cuts the Ministry in charge of it, with disregard, because that was not his way.

Hotels are turning rooms into apartments that is a lesser revenue, even if you make them all bachelor(only one room with appliance and bathroom), a room brings in a minimum of $50/night, that is $1500/30 days outside of the city but in it much more, if tourists are coming to town, while an apartment in the same area will never cost more than half of that, so a loss of per room/revenue, why would you need to do that unless cost exceeds revenue.

Did you see the story about the gas station closing somewhere on the border because Canadian go across the border to save money on gas, so they are going out of business. That is the small entrepreneur's bread and butter either not getting enough incentive as our dollar is to high for Canada to be a place to vacation in, beside being too pricey and under Mr Harper not only out of the competition but really going the wrong way in that race.

The Service industry is the main industry in Canada, largest then the three next big ones put together, and it is 3/4 of Canadian which are affected by these jobs (hotels, restaurant, shops, boutique, and a long variety of businesses, small and medium) depend on our tourism.

So yes Harper's economic plan is already falling apart across Canada and everyone can all go drain the oil until they cannot breath anymore or until it is gone and the continent is submerge because of the cataclysm we have created with our ways as human and Harper's way is just jumping off the cliff before it is submerge, and not even building boats while we wait.

Come to my site and print my petition for a fair vote; and if you agree the one to fire Harper, get your friend to tell the government what you all want and lets make it a big deal. get the CBC News station buried with email reporting more lists and lists of Canadian telling the Government it would be an insult not to implement the suggested 5th grade math to get a per Province or Territory average representation.

And because I have worked so many elections in Quebec, when I lived there, until 14 years ago and that the top man of my District just happened to be the Director of Election for the whole country at the time; I understand how it operates a bit better then most.

So I have made it a dare, for a Better Canada and one voice for the Nation of Canada sign the petition and email a scanned copy to CBC News while handing the original to a party representative or his staff at his/her office.

CBC should make sure we get a good count for a total across Canada

Edited by manwithnoname
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Because there are other business taxes in Ontario that are low besides the one you keep focusing on.

I agree Ontario's taxes should be lower. What I disagree with is that Flaherty should stop running down the province from his position in the federal government. If he wants to be premier, run for the job.

Jdobbin those taxes don't matter! The business income taxes are irrelevant when the businesses are losing money and closing up shop!

We need businesses to START UP in Ontario. There are industries closing up in Ontario that are NEVER coming back because we will NEVER be able to compete with Chinese labour. We have a skilled workforce and the rest of the world knows this so again,

WHY ARE WE TAXING PEOPLE MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE FOR INVESTING IN ONTARIO???????

I CANNOT ask the question any clearer but feel clearly to skirt around the question and ignore like you usually do.

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Jdobbin those taxes don't matter! The business income taxes are irrelevant when the businesses are losing money and closing up shop!

Of course they matter. You just want to focus on your narrow area.

We need businesses to START UP in Ontario. There are industries closing up in Ontario that are NEVER coming back because we will NEVER be able to compete with Chinese labour. We have a skilled workforce and the rest of the world knows this so again,

Ontario remains competitive with quality of work and location to export markets.

If Flaherty ever decides to answer the problem for fairness maybe the issue of taxes can be addressed.

WHY ARE WE TAXING PEOPLE MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE FOR INVESTING IN ONTARIO???????

I CANNOT ask the question any clearer but feel clearly to skirt around the question and ignore like you usually do.

And according to many Ontario is being ripped off by the Feds so that they can't make investments or tax cuts. Deny it?

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Of course they matter. You just want to focus on your narrow area.

I'm focusing on the area that encourages companies to START NEW BUSINESS. Ontario is penalizing companies for doing so relative to pretty much everywhere in the ENTIRE WORLD. That's what I'm focusing on. I'm focusing on the simple, mathematical and indisputable fact that Ontario has by far one of the highest tax rates in te world for the actual act of investing money to create new jobs. What this does is it makes the start-up of new businesses more expensive and it actively discourages existing businesses to invest in new equipment in facilities. It makes it riskier to do business in Ontario because it means that it will taker longer to recover capital spent and more capital is being risked in the first place.

Jobs are being lost. Why are we discouraging INVESTMENT in the province??? I'm asking for like the fifth time now!

Ontario remains competitive with quality of work and location to export markets.

No argument. We have a skilled, plentiful and educated work force. We are close to the US. These are all good. The problem is that similar conditions exist across the border, in Europe and in many parts of Asia. Those high capital taxes can and DO turn investors away from Ontario.

And according to many Ontario is being ripped off by the Feds so that they can't make investments or tax cuts. Deny it?

No I don't deny it! This imbalance has existed for a long time and was developed during the days of the Chretien Liberals!!!!! It was a policy of pandering to Quebec and Atlantic Canada for votes. People in Ontario were stupid enough to support the Liberals despite this!

You're so unbelievably difficult to argue with because you pull the wool over your own eyes. You just brought up the fiscal imbalance of all things! Harper has been increasing transfer payments to ALL provinces and trying to make sure they ALL get a fairer share. I'll admit he's thrown some extra money at Quebec but the end result has been that ALL the provinces have more money in their pockets due to his policies.

What I find hilarious Jdobbin is you try to score points by arguing completely different views on very related topics. On one hand you've always complained about Tory spending but now you're complaining because there's a fiscal imbalance and the Tories aren't sending enough money to Ontario?

Make up your mind!

Edited by Moonbox
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I'm focusing on the area that encourages companies to START NEW BUSINESS. Ontario is penalizing companies for doing so relative to pretty much everywhere in the ENTIRE WORLD. That's what I'm focusing on. I'm focusing on the simple, mathematical and indisputable fact that Ontario has by far one of the highest tax rates in te world for the actual act of investing money to create new jobs. What this does is it makes the start-up of new businesses more expensive and it actively discourages existing businesses to invest in new equipment in facilities. It makes it riskier to do business in Ontario because it means that it will taker longer to recover capital spent and more capital is being risked in the first place.

And I am saying on taxes on businesses in general are lower in Ontario.

Yes, taxes could be lower. However, Flaherty beats up Ontario on the subject yet won't listen to the province when it says it is being treated unfairly on transfers, something that Ontario could use to lower taxes.

Jobs are being lost. Why are we discouraging INVESTMENT in the province??? I'm asking for like the fifth time now!

No argument. We have a skilled, plentiful and educated work force. We are close to the US. These are all good. The problem is that similar conditions exist across the border, in Europe and in many parts of Asia. Those high capital taxes can and DO turn investors away from Ontario.

Why is Harper not listening to Ontario on transfers so it can lower taxes?

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And I am saying on taxes on businesses in general are lower in Ontario.

No the revenue taxes are lower. That's it. It's the very specific tax on investment that is specifically working to discourage job growth. I'm focusing 100% on this tax because it is the most important one determining whether or not it's worthwhile to invest in new facilities and equipment. These are the things that create new jobs to replace ones being lost and they also encourage companies to modernize and innovate so they're not closing down later. It also discourages companies from LEAVING because if they have a lot of money invested they're less likely to leave it all behind.

Yes, taxes could be lower. However, Flaherty beats up Ontario on the subject yet won't listen to the province when it says it is being treated unfairly on transfers, something that Ontario could use to lower taxes.

Why is Harper not listening to Ontario on transfers so it can lower taxes?

Because it's a zero-sum game. Alberta and Ontario have ALWAYS had a huge fiscal imbalance in equalization payments. To give more money to one province means giving less to another province. The whole system is imbedded in the Consitution now thanks to Trudeau's retarded Canada Act which made it Atlantic Canada's and Quebec's 'right' to receive the bulk of equalization payments because of their have not status. Thank Trudeau for that, not Harper. Around the same time, the Trudeau government 'agreed' that Ontario would be excluded from receiving equalization payments altogether.

How are you even trying to blame this on Harper? It's a Liberal policy which has been in place for 30 years which was also supported and maintained from 1993-2006. While I don't know enough for sure, amending the formula at this point would probably be a mess of federal and constitutional law.

Edited by Moonbox
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He runs down Ontario. If he wants to run for the position of premier, he should resign his federal job.

He should have been fired for his war with Ontario that sent the Tories spinning downward last time he did it.

Harper Tories just attack, attack, attack.

So you agree, it was a factual statement and he did not tell people not to invest in Ontario.

Thanks.

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No the revenue taxes are lower. That's it. It's the very specific tax on investment that is specifically working to discourage job growth. I'm focusing 100% on this tax because it is the most important one determining whether or not it's worthwhile to invest in new facilities and equipment. These are the things that create new jobs to replace ones being lost and they also encourage companies to modernize and innovate so they're not closing down later. It also discourages companies from LEAVING because if they have a lot of money invested they're less likely to leave it all behind.

Because it's a zero-sum game. Alberta and Ontario have ALWAYS had a huge fiscal imbalance in equalization payments. To give more money to one province means giving less to another province. The whole system is imbedded in the Consitution now thanks to Trudeau's retarded Canada Act which made it Atlantic Canada's and Quebec's 'right' to receive the bulk of equalization payments because of their have not status. Thank Trudeau for that, not Harper. Around the same time, the Trudeau government 'agreed' that Ontario would be excluded from receiving equalization payments altogether.

How are you even trying to blame this on Harper? It's a Liberal policy which has been in place for 30 years which was also supported and maintained from 1993-2006. While I don't know enough for sure, amending the formula at this point would probably be a mess of federal and constitutional law.

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/new...91-4f712f1e8de3

Harper did amend the equalization formula too the detriment of Ontario. He removed resources from the formula which helped the resource rich provinces.

The article above is about Harper defending his equalization formula.

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http://www.cjad.com/news/565/618692

Ontario historically has done quite well. Did they all of a sudden raise there taxes. The value of the dollar. Labour costs. cost of energy. Marketing of products to the increasing protective American market. More competition from china, korea etc. . Interest rates. Whether there is a labour market with the needed skills. All kinds of thinks can affect a companies ability to make money. If they are paying taxes it is probably because they are profitable. Ontario is not in a position too offer corporate welfare.

Governments can assist companies with costs of training employees. quarateed loans too cover the cost of expansion. Lowering our interest rate. which not only makes it cheaper to get loans but it also lower the value of our dollar. Which will make us more competive relative to the states.

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So you agree, it was a factual statement and he did not tell people not to invest in Ontario.

Thanks.

It was a stupid statement. I'm not sure its what he really meant, but its easy to see why it wasn't taken well. Just the other day on either Mike Duffy Live or Politics, another conservative attacked Ontario and the Ontario Government abut the same thing...I thought, yeah....thats the way to get votes.

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It was a stupid statement. I'm not sure its what he really meant, but its easy to see why it wasn't taken well. Just the other day on either Mike Duffy Live or Politics, another conservative attacked Ontario and the Ontario Government abut the same thing...I thought, yeah....thats the way to get votes.

Again, where did anyone attack Ontario?

The point was clear: High taxes make a region unattractive to business. Ontario is a striking example of this.

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So you agree, it was a factual statement and he did not tell people not to invest in Ontario.

Your own quote of what Flaherty said was an indication that he was running down Ontario as a place to invest. Not exactly what you expect from a federal minister.

I'm afraid your facts speak for themselves. Flaherty attacked and when asked to help on the issue of unfairness with Ontario, he closes his ears.

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Your own quote of what Flaherty said was an indication that he was running down Ontario as a place to invest. Not exactly what you expect from a federal minister.

I'm afraid your facts speak for themselves. Flaherty attacked and when asked to help on the issue of unfairness with Ontario, he closes his ears.

I suggest you re-read the quotation. Please explain the attack you are referring to.

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