Remember all the past lies/scandals from the Federal Liberals

[AngusThermopyle]

Geez someone's been listening to too many bush speeches, just like our useless Harper.

Jeeze, someones firing out their arse as usual.

So how about you tell us how we should do this? In a sensible manner, not just cut and run. I'm sure that even you would agree that just haulin ass out of there would not be acceptable.

[Black Dog]

TCCK is absolutely right that every poll showed the majority of Canadians to be against same sex marriage.

There's something missing here, but I can't put my finger on what it is....Oh, I know! An actual public opinion poll showing a majority oppossed to SSM.

Here's some actual data:

2003-AUG-30: NFOCF Group poll:

This poll was conducted via telephone during AUG-25 to 30. 1,015 Canadian adults were surveyed. The margin of error is 3.2 percentage points. Results were released on SEP-5. Overall, they found 46% of Canadian adults favor SSM and 46% are opposed.

...

2003-SEP-8: SES-Research poll:

SES-Research released data from a ten-day poll of 1,000 Canadian adults. It was held about three months after same-sex marriages became available in Ontario. They found that: 47% support SSM, 44% are opposed; 9% were unsure.

...

2003-SEP: Centre for Research and Information on Canada poll:

Environics Research Group interviewed 1,500 adult Canadians for CRIC. The margin of error is 2.5 percentage points.

48% of Canadians agree that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.

47% feel that marriage should be prohibited

5% are undecided or gave no response.

...

2003-DEC: Compas Inc.

They asked each of the 1,000 subjects whether they "support or oppose keeping the definition of marriage as a union of one woman and one man to the exclusion of all others? … Do you strongly or somewhat (support/oppose) this definition?"

Results were:

48% strongly support retaining the current definition of marriage.

15% somewhat support.

13% somewhat oppose.

18% strongly oppose.

6% didn't know or no response.

....

A Dec. 2005 Ipsos Re-d poll of Canadians found that a full majority (71%) support the concept of same sex marriage. However, these Canadians are split in how they would like the union recognized: four in ten (39%) believe same-sex marriage should be “fully recognized and equal to conventional heterosexual marriages”, while and 32% believe it should “be allowed to exist in civil law but not have the same legal weight as a conventional marriage”. In the alternate, the poll found that only a minority of 27% believe that “it is wrong and should never be lawful”. Two percent “don’t know” which of these views they have on this issue.

At best, a statistically insignificant percentage of Canadians opposed SSM.

[Smallc]

Yes we should, as long as it takes.

What kind of people would we be if we just turned our backs and threw the Afghan people to the wolves?

And I agree with you. In this case, the majority is wrong.

[Smallc]

Apples and oranges. Internment is not death.

That kind of thinking is why I can't bring myself to vote for the CPC.

[Topaz]

And I agree with you. In this case, the majority is wrong.

The spring of 9/11. US oil companies and Cheney were in talks with the Taliban about a pipeline through Afghanistan. When the deal turned sour against the US...9/11 happened. If the talks had succeeded would the US invaded Afghanistan? I don't think so and nothing would have changed for the people, especially the women. Canada is only in there because of the US and the US will probably build another billion $$$ embassy like they did in Iraq because THEY want to control the Middle-East and everything that goes along with it. As far as scandals, Harper has only been there for 2-3 years and just look at schemes, scams and lies this government has told! They have done as much damage to their "conservative " as Mulroney's bunch did to the "progressive conservatives"! These cons don't deserve to be IN Parliament and they need to go back home and get more experiences on how to behave like a member of parliament, Canadians deserve better! A.B.C anything but Conservatives.

[Smallc]

The reason I think the majority is wrong is that we got Afghanistan into this mess and we better get it out again.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Smallc

[thermo]

There's something missing here, but I can't put my finger on what it is....Oh, I know! An actual public opinion poll showing a majority oppossed to SSM.

Here's some actual data:

At best, a statistically insignificant percentage of Canadians opposed SSM.

Thank you! that's what i thought but I couldn't find any data on SSM opinions.

even the more conservative people I know were ok with the idea.

[M.Dancer]

When the deal turned sour against the US...9/11 happened. If the talks had succeeded would the US invaded Afghanistan?

By that stretch of feverish logic, if the talks succeeded maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened....

[AngusThermopyle]

These cons don't deserve to be IN Parliament and they need to go back home and get more experiences on how to behave like a member of parliament, Canadians deserve better! A.B.C anything but Conservatives.

I'm positive that I've mentioned this before but I will do so again. All politicians lie, its part of the job. I know you don't want to hear this Topaz but the Liberals lied a lot, a shit load actually.

Given that all politicians lie one has to base their vote on factors such as: which politicians have the most sound ideas?

At this point the Liberals appear to have a campaign composed of lots of fluff and insubstantial ideas, not much to vote for there. Especially since their "leader" is about the farthest thing from an actual leader that you could find.

As for scandals, well you must have a very short memory if you've forgotten all the Liberal ones. I haven't seen Harpers people "lose" a billion dollars or so yet, have you?

As for behaviour in parliament, have you ever watched these bozo's In action? All I can say is that they're all a bunch of overgrown ill behaved kids.

Edited September 10, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[blueblood]

By that stretch of feverish logic, if the talks succeeded maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened....

the toaster strikes again!!!

[normanchateau]

I haven't seen Harpers people "lose" a billion dollars or so yet, have you?

It depends on how you define "lose". Check out the $4,000,000,000 gift to Quebec from the rest of Canada on September 3rd on the list below:

http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Conservative_Spending.pdf

Buying Quebec votes sure is expensive.

[Smallc]

It depends on how you define "lose". Check out the $4,000,000,000 gift to Quebec from the rest of Canada on September 3rd on the list below:

http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Conservative_Spending.pdf

Buying Quebec votes sure is expensive.

Their Building Canada money? Every province got some.

[TCCK]

I think that the Liberals do an EXCELLENT job in government, and they should be returned there. Many of Dion's ideas are excellent, he just has trouble communicating them.

An excellant job in government?!?!? What a laugh that is! They are opposing anything the COnservatives bring forward or just plain abstain from the votes. Their only great acheivement in government right now is to be a cork to getting any good thing done in Canada. All they wanted was to make government come to a stand still so they could push a non-confidence vote.

SLIMY POLITICS LIKE THE NORM FOR THE LIBERALS, can lead the ship so they play dirty!

[TCCK]

Not another Albertan...

Wrong, BRITISH COLUMBIAN! We still know how to use are own brains and think for ourselves and not drink the Liberal Kool-Aid just because they say it is good.

I have never seen anything good from the Federal Liberals. They lie, cheat, deal all the government contracts to thier friends at hugely inflated prices so that they can in return pay donations to the Liberal party. Their hands are so red and dirty there is no soap that can clean it.

DION IS A KOOL-AID DRINKING LIBERAL TOO!!! MARK MY WORDS!!!

Oh sorry I forgot all you Ontarians have short and long term memory loss and you cannot remember anything from the past about the Liberal party. (We all know you use journalling to remember the few mistakes the Conservatives make and drag the same 2 or 3 issues up over and over.)

Whereas us Conservative supporters have a list a mile long about what the Liberals have done wrong!!

[Smallc]

An excellant job in government?!?!? What a laugh that is! They are opposing anything the COnservatives bring forward or just plain abstain from the votes. Their only great acheivement in government right now is to be a cork to getting any good thing done in Canada. All they wanted was to make government come to a stand still so they could push a non-confidence vote.

SLIMY POLITICS LIKE THE NORM FOR THE LIBERALS, can lead the ship so they play dirty!

I don't know if you realize this, but the conservatives had a MINORITY in the last parliament. They were not given a mandate to do whatever they wanted by the people. They were given a mandate to work within parliament with the other parties. They couldn't play nice, so they broke their promise and called an election.

Also, in case you didn't know, its the duty of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to oppose the government when they don't agree with them. Its how our system works. Sorry if you don't like it.

[TCCK]

I don't know if you realize this, but the conservatives had a MINORITY in the last parliament. They were not given a mandate to do whatever they wanted by the people. They were given a mandate to work within parliament with the other parties. They couldn't play nice, so they broke their promise and called an election.

Also, in case you didn't know, its the duty of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to oppose the government when they don't agree with them. Its how our system works. Sorry if you don't like it.

The "Loyal" Oposition is there to make sure nothing BAD is done, cause the ruling government party to think hard and do what is right for ALL the people.

NOT abstain from votes and oppose just to oppose just like a 10 yr old brother disagreeing to his 13yr sister just to bug her. They have opposed great plans that would have helped ALL Canadians just to make it look like the Conservatives are doing nothing so they can push a NON-confidence vote. That is just dirty poor sportsmanship.

ANd once again a Liberal follower brings up: " They couldn't play nice, so they broke their promise and called an election." The broken record continues on the same tune, the law had a policy that allowed for an earlier election if a Minority government could not get anything done because all other parties were doing as I described above "Voting against just to make the ruling party look bad and get nothing done".

I do not like the money wasted on the election either BUT IF THE EASTERN CANADIANS WOULD GET IT THROUGH THEIR THICK SKULLS, LIBERALS ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY UNTIL THEY GET A MASSIVE PURGING AND CLEAN UP THEIR ACT. Right now the best thing for this country is a majority Conservative government, let them prove it to you.

OR

You can once again in Ontario drink the Kool-Aid and vote Liberal and watch teh CRAP HIT THE FAN shortly after they take power and the country will go into a financial tail spin because of their poor management of the country!!!

[peter_puck]

If you refuse to do some research before the election then you are just another brainwashed Easterner Canadian that follows the lemmings over the cliff.

I REFUSE TO LET ANOTHER ELECTION happen without speaking my mind from what I have watched politically the last 40 years.

OPEN YOUR EYES and do the research.

Your memory does not seem to go back 40 years. I seem to remember a Mulroney cabinet minister being charged with bribery and influence peddling.

I remember Mulroney promising to end the rampant patronage system - even winning the election with his attacks on the issue - then opening the trough back up the minute he got into power.

I remember Mulroney being called "lying Brian" even before he took envelopes with 6 figures from a professional politician briber.

I remember the Conservatives calling for a criminal investigation when Stronach jumped parties, then giving Emerson a cabinet post RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION.

I remember the Grewal tapes.

I remember the Conservatives complaining about the power concentrated in the PMO and supporting the report on the Sponsorship Scandal, only to concentrate even more power in the PMO's office, and to through out many of the recomendations once the came to power.

I also just remember them violating their own elections law......

The bottom line is that nobody's politicians are any more honest than the other guys. The last period of Conservative rule was known as a period of lies and corruption. They were replaced by the new, fresh, ethical Liberals. Chretien in the first couple terms used to brag about how he was scandal free compared to Mulroney.

Then, eventually, look what happened.

Power corrupts. The only reason I haven't added the federal NDP, Block, or even the Greens is because they haven't gotten to power.

What would impress me is very firm promises of action to make the system more transparent and honest. Instead of complaining about how bad the other guy is then doing the same thing once they get to power.

Call me a WESTERNER if you wanted and fire insults at me but I have done the research and know the truth.

You have not done the "research", you just have a selective view of history.

[Wild Bill]

Oh sorry I forgot all you Ontarians have short and long term memory loss and you cannot remember anything from the past about the Liberal party. (We all know you use journalling to remember the few mistakes the Conservatives make and drag the same 2 or 3 issues up over and over.)

"...all you Ontarians"? You wanna rephrase that, laddie?

Millions of us voted consistently against the Liberals! I still have perhaps the very first Reform membership ever given into Ontario. We pulled over a million and a half votes at one time.

You're insulting all of us that were and are on your side!

What's more, let me tell you from personal experience that Calgary HQ often had little or no clue of how to campaign in the East yet insisted on controlling everything from thousands of miles away. They elbowed out all the local folks to fight the Sheila Copps byelection and proceeded to run a national issues campaign in a riding where local presence was everything. We all sat back and watched in horror as Sheila romped to an easy victory and our Reform candidate did far worse than the previous election.

Now with the new Tories Calgary is still doing some stupid things. It wasn't too smart of Jim Flaherty to spend his time trying to tear McGuinty down instead of showing Ontario that the Tories would be a better choice.

Sometimes it looks like the Tories believe that they shouldn't worry if Ontario's manufacturing economy goes down the tubes because what the hell, the West is doing great with oil and of course, it's their turn!

I too will again vote Tory but only by default. As an Ontarioan with eyes I also clearly see the negatives of the Liberals. However, this doesn't make me blind to faults with the Tories! So far they simply seem to smell a bit less than the others.

Meanwhile, I would be more careful of my vitriol, if I were you. You get more flies with honey. Harper is going to have to work hard to convince all those manufacturing workers that he is serious about helping to keep their jobs so they can feed their kids. What he did in Sarnia/Windsor was a good start but it will take more than that to have it look like more than a token.

Calling ALL of us Ontarioans stupid Liberal supporters is hardly a smart way to help Harper win seats here.

Who's side are you on?

[peter_puck]

Wrong, BRITISH COLUMBIAN! We still know how to use are own brains and think for ourselves and not drink the Liberal Kool-Aid just because they say it is good.

Okay, your the historian, when is the last time your province has had a Conservative/Social Credit government ? Even better when has it had a Conservative/Social Credit government that has not had scandals that make the Sponsorship Scandal look minor in comparison ?

While we are at it, which province did Dion steal the idea for the Green Shift from ?

BUT IF THE EASTERN CANADIANS WOULD GET IT THROUGH THEIR THICK SKULLS, LIBERALS ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY UNTIL THEY GET A MASSIVE PURGING AND CLEAN UP THEIR ACT

You know, I could substitute a few different words for "EASTERN CANADIANS" there that would get my post/or my account here deleted . "EASTERN CANADIANS" may not cause the same social stigma as putting the name of a minority group there, but it comes from the same type of narrow minded thinking.

[Wild Bill]

It would seem that "TCCK" has gotten very quiet after my post!

I guess I won't get a response. Somehow I'm not surprised...

[Slavik44]

I was going to tack this on to the end of my post but I figured you might actually read it if it was at the top of my post. I don’t live in eastern Canada and have never lived in eastern Canada…although I did visit once twelve years ago. I currently reside in Alberta and I have never voted for the Liberal Party of Canada. That being said I think you might want to go on google and do a little fact checking.

You may think the Liberals can change but I guarantee the "green Shift" campaign is just a dirty lie to steal voters from the Green and NDP parties.

Of course they are trying to capture votes. That is the whole point of an election—to campaign for votes. I wouldn’t refer to that as “stealing votes.” My vote is not the exclusive property of any political party. As long as I am voting of my own free will my vote can hardly be called stolen.

Liberals are promising tax cuts but in the last 40 years the Liberals have not cut taxes but always been the party to increase them.

That is simply not true; there have been tax cuts introduced and implemented by the Liberals. There were a number of tax cuts made during Paul Martin’s years as finance minister. We could obviously debate the effectiveness of them…but to say there were no tax cuts is a gross exaggeration.

Were the Liberals not the ones in the election when Chretien got in that promised to fully remove the GST??? Yet it stayed and now Steven Harper has decreased it 2% with intent to continue decreasing it.

So who implemented the GST in the first place? You previously stated that the Liberals were always the party to increase taxes. But clearly, they were not the only party there were other parties raising them as well. I think it is a little disingenuous to label the Liberals as the party of taxes. Although, I do agree with you that a failure to live up to such an election promise was a slap in the face to the electorate.

The Liberals always increase spending and add to the debt, but under Steven Harper and the Conservatives spending has been cut and the debt has been slowly but consistently decreased.

I think you’re a little fuzzy on the details and a little strong on the bias. Plenty of spending cuts were made in the mid 1990’s. Likewise, the government went from running a massive deficit, to running a massive surplus (under the liberals)…much of which went to paying down the debt. So what you’re attributing to Stephen Harper is really just the maintenance of the status quo…Stephen Harper inherited a government that was making tax cuts and paying down the deficit…thankfully he hasn’t screwed that up.

THEN JUST BEFORE THE LAST ELECTION the Federal Liberals went against 68% of the populations wishes to shove the SAME SEX Marriage down our throats to make a very small interest group happy. Why would you vote for a polictical party that ignores its voters wishes?!?!?!

I’ll make this short because I don’t want to open up the same sex marriage can of worms. I will simply state that I do not care to be ruled by one tyrant, 308 tyrants, or 30 million tyrants. My litmus test for government involvement can be pared down to a simple question. Can I do that all by myself? If the answer is yes…then the government can and should go to hell. I don’t think free individuals need the government telling them whom they can and cannot marry. What next maybe they can set a curfew and tell me when to go to bed? Maybe they can tuck me in and read me a bedtime story. Perhaps they could buy me a night-light while they’re at it.

I’m a little baffled by the poll data you are using… if I recall most polls from the time indicated that about 40% approved, 40% opposed, and 20% didn’t give a damn. I don't believe I saw a poll that showed that 68% of the population strongly opposed SSM.

[DrGreenthumb]

I was going to tack this on to the end of my post but I figured you might actually read it if it was at the top of my post. I don’t live in eastern Canada and have never lived in eastern Canada…although I did visit once twelve years ago. I currently reside in Alberta and I have never voted for the Liberal Party of Canada. That being said I think you might want to go on google and do a little fact checking.

Of course they are trying to capture votes. That is the whole point of an election—to campaign for votes. I wouldn’t refer to that as “stealing votes.” My vote is not the exclusive property of any political party. As long as I am voting of my own free will my vote can hardly be called stolen.

That is simply not true; there have been tax cuts introduced and implemented by the Liberals. There were a number of tax cuts made during Paul Martin’s years as finance minister. We could obviously debate the effectiveness of them…but to say there were no tax cuts is a gross exaggeration.

So who implemented the GST in the first place? You previously stated that the Liberals were always the party to increase taxes. But clearly, they were not the only party there were other parties raising them as well. I think it is a little disingenuous to label the Liberals as the party of taxes. Although, I do agree with you that a failure to live up to such an election promise was a slap in the face to the electorate.

I think you’re a little fuzzy on the details and a little strong on the bias. Plenty of spending cuts were made in the mid 1990’s. Likewise, the government went from running a massive deficit, to running a massive surplus (under the liberals)…much of which went to paying down the debt. So what you’re attributing to Stephen Harper is really just the maintenance of the status quo…Stephen Harper inherited a government that was making tax cuts and paying down the deficit…thankfully he hasn’t screwed that up.

I’ll make this short because I don’t want to open up the same sex marriage can of worms. I will simply state that I do not care to be ruled by one tyrant, 308 tyrants, or 30 million tyrants. My litmus test for government involvement can be pared down to a simple question. Can I do that all by myself? If the answer is yes…then the government can and should go to hell. I don’t think free individuals need the government telling them whom they can and cannot marry. What next maybe they can set a curfew and tell me when to go to bed? Maybe they can tuck me in and read me a bedtime story. Perhaps they could buy me a night-light while they’re at it.

I’m a little baffled by the poll data you are using… if I recall most polls from the time indicated that about 40% approved, 40% opposed, and 20% didn’t give a damn. I don't believe I saw a poll that showed that 68% of the population strongly opposed SSM.

I just wanted to thank you for this post, makes me feel better to know I am not the only only one that feels we do not need stephen Harper to be some kind of foster parent or nanny to us. These conservatives that dare talk about being the party of "smaller government are so full of sh*t!. How dare ANY govt of a so-called FRE COUNTRY think they can force their religious moralizations on the citizens? When MY taxes are paying your frickin salary I shouldn't have to bow to your paternalistic demands. You are our government NOT our parents. I became an adult 18 years ago and have paid my own way ever since. I will eat, drink and smoke whatever I want thank you.

[Hugh]

EXACTLY.... especially the ad-scam scandal, "Paul Coffin" the poor guy, first person convicted of steling tax dollars. Had to only pay back half because he worked out a deal with the then govenment. FRIG.... if you or I renegged on some of our taxes we would not only be fined, have to pay back every penny, but we have been promised that we will deffinitely do time in prison. unless of course we might be a friend of Jean Cretian. When did we and "them forget that they work for the people. We need the power of referendumn, NOWWWW, Hugh

I challenge all Canadians to do a google search on the scandals and lies of the federal Liberal party in Canada.

Please do this research before you even think about voting Liberal in the 2008 election.

Do you think Dion is going to be any different? They are all cut from the same material.

You may think the Liberals can change but I guarantee the "green Shift" campaign is just a dirty lie to steal voters from the Green and NDP parties.

Liberals are promising tax cuts but in the last 40 years the Liberals have not cut taxes but always been the party to increase them.

Were the Liberals not the ones in the election when Chretien got in that promised to fully remove the GST??? Yet it stayed and now Steven Harper has decreased it 2% with intent to continue decreasing it.

The Liberals always increase spending and add to the debt, but under Steven Harper and the Conservatives spending has been cut and the debt has been slowly but consistantly decreased.

THEN JUST BEFORE THE LAST ELECTION the Federal Liberals went against 68% of the populations wishes to shove the SAME SEX Marriage down our throats to make a very small interest group happy. Why would you vote for a polictical party that ignores its voters wishes?!?!?!

Trust me I could go on and on for pages and pages. Every person in WESTERN CANADA that knows some one in Ontario and the Maritime provinces needs to get this information in thier hands.

ANOTHER LIBERAL GOVERNMENT OR MINORITY CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT WILL ONLY HURT CANADA!!!!!

[TCCK]

No I am not gone! Just was on a business tripo that took me to the "great province of Toronto" and I AM SO GLAD I AM A WESTERN CANADIAN!!

The world does not revolve around Toronto/Ontario as all those Ontarians I met last week so clearly thought. Let it be known I fired 4 upper management people in Ontario and I WILL be replacing them with people from out west. Just because I am not from the East does not mean my thoughts need to be ignored (or MY company policy to be frank in this case), the people from out west here will obey, (not blindly, but choosing to do as an owner of a business says.) When you run a company as long as I have and it works, why fight the boss to get things done your way because you believe the person from the west is an idiot and he does not know how to ruin his business.

With that said, I believe Canada needs someone running this country from an area that is doing financial well. Run the country like a business, get rid of the political crap and run it like a business. With the soon collapse of the USA with all their failures looming we need a strong leader that can lead us away from their footsteps and on to our own greatness in the world arena.

I am not say9ing Stephen HArper is truly that man BUT let me be clear to say it is not DION, LAYTON or any of the other flunkies out there especially. Harper is the (excuse the expression) devil we know and he will get the job done as best he can, he will lead to a place where someone can come along and take it to the next level and beyond.

Maybe that next person is a new Liberal leader BUT OH MY GOODNESS not "DION, I AM PROMISING THE MOON TO CAUSE FINACIAL DISASTER LIKE THE USA."

Ok back to you Liberal fans for your return fire blasts. (I have thick skin, fire away but think about what I have said before you fire from the hip.)

[marksman]

No I am not gone! Just was on a business tripo that took me to the "great province of Toronto" and I AM SO GLAD I AM A WESTERN CANADIAN!!

The world does not revolve around Toronto/Ontario as all those Ontarians I met last week so clearly thought. Let it be known I fired 4 upper management people in Ontario and I WILL be replacing them with people from out west. Just because I am not from the East does not mean my thoughts need to be ignored (or MY company policy to be frank in this case), the people from out west here will obey, (not blindly, but choosing to do as an owner of a business says.) When you run a company as long as I have and it works, why fight the boss to get things done your way because you believe the person from the west is an idiot and he does not know how to ruin his business.

Your posts all sound like you've got a superiority complex just because you're from the west but then you've accused people from the east and Toronto of being stupid for having similar viewpoints. Seems like a contradiction. Instead of hiring people from the west because they aren't from the east maybe you'd like to try hiring the best people for the job no matter where they're from. To paraphrase you just because someone's from the east doesn't mean they don't know how to work as a team in a business office and it doesn't mean that they automatically think all westerners are idiots.

Most people I know from Toronto and ON don't think the world revolves around them despite the popularity of that view outside of Toronto and ON. Obviously Toronto gets a lot of attention compared to other cities but it's hard not to when you've got a population of that size. Why should people from Toronto be insulted for being proud of their home? If Albertans can be proud of Alberta why doesn't the same apply to Ontario?

With that said, I believe Canada needs someone running this country from an area that is doing financial well. Run the country like a business, get rid of the political crap and run it like a business. With the soon collapse of the USA with all their failures looming we need a strong leader that can lead us away from their footsteps and on to our own greatness in the world arena.

I'd rather not see government run as a business. Businesses are run for 1 reason only to make a profit. I don't think the government should be making profits off its citizens. Examples like Enron AIG Fanny Mae etc also stand out as excellent examples of how a government shouldn't act.