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Ontario's street racing legislation is illegal


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No sympathy for people who like to drive cars at speeds of 50kmph ABOVE the posted speed limit. I don't care if they are average citizens and not engaged in actual 'street racing'. Driving above 90kmph through a school zone (40kmph limit) does seem to be worthy of horrendeous fines and/or vehicle impoundment.

Nobody disagrees.

I don't care about one's "intention" or "motive" for speeding (racing or not racing). All that matters is the result.

Nobody disagrees.

Driving 50kmph above the posted speed limit poses a massive and significant danger to the public and thus the government is entirely justified in applying this policy.

No one should agree since that is not true. Lots of our highways are built for much higher speeds.

The gov is not justified in removing rights. Sorry but rights are not there for the whim of the govt.

If you drive your car 50kmph above the posted speed limit, you deserve to loose your driving license and/or your car. Driving a car in public is a privilege, not a right.

IF you throw in ..." after they have been found guilty in a court of law" people will likely agree with you.

But if one ignores the infringement on rights, well.................

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The law is unconstitutional for several reasons.

Section 172(5) requires an officer to have reasonable and probable grounds. This proves a hearing is required before punishment can be imposed. Reasonable and probable grounds bear a standard of proof and onus of proof.

Thus, when an accused is charged, it is neither proven nor presumed that the accused has committed an offence, but there are reasonable grounds for believing that this has occurred. The laying of charges in the legal process does not involve a determination of guilt, thus, the presumption of innocence under s. 11(d) as a principle of fundamental justice under s. 7 of the Charter still applies and sanctions cannot be imposed until a determination of guilt has been entered.

The burden is on the government and the standard of proof is beyond reasonable doubt. The governments burden can only be discharged by a trier of fact in a court proceeding; but no proceeding is provided violating ss. 7 and 11(d) of the Charter.

The principles of fundamental justice under s. 7 incorporate due process and natural justice. Section 172 violate both of them as no hearing is provided. As no hearing is provided s. 172 also violates s. 11(d), the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to the law.

The Charter is part of the constitution and the Constitution of Canada is the supreme law of Canada and s. 52(1) of the Constitution Act 1982 mandates that any law inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution is, to the extent of the inconsistency, of no force or effect.

Section 172 is not justified or saved by s. 1 of the Charter.

Moreover, s. 128(14)(d) directly conflicts with s. 172.

Section 128 provides for a fine of $9.75 per km over the speed limit when the driver is doing more than 50 kms over the speed limit. There is no licence suspension, vehicle impoundment, prison term etc.

By contrast, s. 172 provides for a minimum $2000 fine, maximum $10,000 fine, seven day licence suspension, up to two year suspension upon conviction, seven day vehicle impoundment, and six month prison term.

It is a universal principle that when two provisions conflict the one that is most favourable to the accused must be adopted, whih is why most people are not being convicted under s. 172.

Most critically, offences in Canada were classified 30 years ago. Offences are either mens rea, absolute or strict liability offences.

R. v. City of Sault Ste. Marie, [1978] 2 S.C.R. 1299

Section 172 is an absolute liability offence.

Twenty-three years ago, the Supreme Court of Canada determined that absolute liability offences that contain terms of imprisonment are unconstitutional as they violate s. 7 of the charter. The term of imprisonment does not have to be mandatory, it may be optional, as s. 172 provides.

B.C. Motor Vehicle Act, [1985] 2 S.C.R. 486

Thus, in accordance with s. 52 of the Constitution Act 1982, s. 172 is of no force and effect. In other words, it's not a valid law.

The Province might wish to claim it was unaware of B.C. Motor Vehicle Act, [1985] 2 S.C.R. 486 but that is simple untrue. The Attorney General of Ontario intervened in R. v. Kanda, 2008 ONCA 22 and is well aware of the offence classifications and that a term of imprisonment is not permissible when attached to an absolute offence, which s. 172 is.

More than 8,000 people to date have be charged under s. 172 and up to 8,000 vehicles impounded, thus up to 24,000 criminal offences of thefts, mischeif and fraud have been committed by agents of the Province.

Importantly, the Attorney General argued in the case that the triggering words “no person shall,” evince a clear intention to create an absolute liability offence. The court determined otherwise stating it is a strict liability offence. The court also cited the B.C. Motor Vehicle Act case in its support. Therefore, the Attorney General has been aware since January, 2008 that s. 172 is unconstitutional and of no force or effect yet the Province continues to illegally charge citizens and unlawfully steal vehicles. This amounts to a reckless disregard and contempt for the rule of law.

In order to be reasonable, seizures and impoundments must be authorized by law. Here, impoundment is not reasonable or authorized by a valid law. The reason for this requirement is clear: under both the Charter and the common law, agents of the state can only enter onto or confiscate someone’s property when the law specifically permits them to do so. Otherwise, they are constrained by the same rules regarding theft as everyone else.

R. v. Caslake, [1998] 1 S.C.R. 51

Therefore, the police are not operating under any valid law when they impound a vehicle and are not are not operating in the execution of any valid power or duty. What they are doing is stealing cars under s. 322 of the Criminal Code, committing mischief under s. 430, and fraud under s. 380.

A person is having their vehicle stolen by the police and the police are allowing a third party to place a lien on your property. You cannot get your stolen property back unless you pay money, which is fraud.

If you are subject to an impoundment you are empowered under s. 494 of the Criminal Code to arrest the police officer on the spot the second he acts to impound your vehicle.

Section 19 of the Criminal Code articulates that ignorance of the law is no excuse and the police cannot blame the government for any wrong doing an officer commits as a result of the government enacting s. 172.

A police officers duty and powers are articulated under s. 42 of the Police Service Act.

Section 42(3) of the Police Service Act states;

Powers and duties of common law constable

(3) A police officer has the powers and duties ascribed to a constable at common law.

At common law, these duties include “the preservation of the peace, the prevention of crime, and the protection of life and property.”

Dedman v. The Queen, [1985] 2 S.C.R. 2.

Section 428 of the Criminal Code defines property as real and personal property of every description and deeds and instruments relating to or evidencing the title or right to property, or giving a right to recover or receive money or goods.

Ownership of property is defined in s. 588, which states;

Ownership

588. The real and personal property of which a person has, by law, the management, control or custody shall, for the purposes of an indictment or proceeding against any other person for an offence committed on or in respect of the property, be deemed to be the property of the person who has the management, control or custody of it.

The common law is no more immune from Charter scrutiny than is statute law, as the Supreme Court has repeatedly held.

RWDSU v. Dolphin Delivery Ltd., [1986] 2 S.C.R. 573; B.C.G.E.U. v. British Columbia (Attorney General), [1988] 2 S.C.R. 214; R. v. Swain, [1991] 1 S.C.R. 933; R. v. Daviault, [1994] 3 S.C.R. 63, and R. v. Stone, [1999] 2 S.C.R. 290.

Common law is made up of decisions of the court. Police officers are required to be aware of all decisons, as they are governed by them. Thus, as the court determined 23 years ago that absolute liability offences that contain terms of imprisonment are unconstitutional, which the police are aware of, the police officer who steals a car commits 3 criminal offences per incident.

You can also sue the officer for breach of duty of care for all damages you incur, i.e., towing, storage, taxis, fines, lawyer fees, economic loss, etc.

Hill v. Hamilton Wentworth Regional Police Services Board, 2007 SCC 41

Moreover, Section 50(1) of the Police Service Act expressly states;

Liability for torts

50(1) The board or the Crown in right of Ontario, as the case may be, is liable in respect of torts committed by members of the police force in the course of their employment.

The failure of a public officer to perform a statutory duty also constitutes misfeasance in a public office. Police Services Act s. 41(1) imposes on all Chiefs and Commissioners a freestanding statutory obligation to ensure that the members of the force carry out their duties in accordance with the provisions of the Police Services Act and the needs of the community. This includes an obligation to ensure that members of the police force do not injure members of the public through misconduct in the exercise of police functions.

The public complaints process allows the public to complain in respect of the conduct of a police officer. What an accused seeks, though, is not the opportunity to file a complaint that might result in the imposition of disciplinary sanctions, but, rather, compensation for the damage they have suffered as a consequence of the Chief and/or Commissioners inadequate supervision and misfeasance in office. The public complaint process is no alternative to liability in negligence.

A plaintiff cannot sue government for a policy decision; however, enforcement of that policy is an operational decision which gives rise to a duty of care.

Odhauji Estate v. Yoodhouse [2003] 3 S.C.R, 263.

Section 1 of the Police Service Act articulates the principles Police are to respect and follow. The drivers whose vehicles are stolen by the police are victims of crime. These victims of crime are being dumped at the side of the road when their vehicle is stolen by the police and they are being smeared in the media when the police release their names and/or allow video of their car or the person themselves to be aired.

Section 1 states;

Declaration of principles

1. Police services shall be provided throughout Ontario in accordance with the following principles:

1. The need to ensure the safety and security of all persons and property in Ontario.

2. The importance of safeguarding the fundamental rights guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Human Rights Code.

...

4. The importance of respect for victims of crime and understanding of their needs.

The Police core services are articulated under s. 4 and indicate they are to prevent crime, not commit it, and they are to assist victims of crime, yet, in stead, they dump them off at the side of the road after stealing their vehicles.

Core police services

4(2) Adequate and effective police services must include, at a minimum, all of the following police services:

1. Crime prevention.

2. Law enforcement.

3. Assistance to victims of crime.

4. Public order maintenance.

5. Emergency response.

The Province and the police operate under colour of law, but the law is not colour blind and no one is exempt from the law, including police officers or the Premier.

R. v. Mann, [2004] 3 S.C.R.59, 2004 SCC 52.

One of the most fundamental responsibilities of a government is to ensure the security of its citizens. In a constitutional democracy, governments must act accountably and in conformity with the Constitution and the rights and liberties it guarantees.

It is one of the proud accomplishments of the common law that everybody is subject to the ordinary law of the land regardless of public prominence or governmental status. As was explained in Reference re Secession of Quebec, [1998] 2 S.C.R. 217, at p. 240, the rule of law is one of the “fundamental and organizing principles of the Constitution”, and at p. 258, it was further emphasized that a crucial element of the rule of law is that “[t]here is ... one law for all.”

Thus, a provincial Premier is held to have no immunity against a claim in damages when he caused injury to a private citizen. It is the Premier who is responsible for allowing this law to be enacted.

Section 21 of the Criminal Code articulates who is a party to an offence.

Dunlop and Sylvester v. The Queen, [1979] 2 S.C.R. 881

Therefore, the Premier is a party to every criminal offence that has occured by police officers so far, and that number is over 24,000 criminal offences in just one year.

The following sections of the Highway Traffic Act are also unconstitutional as they are absolute liability offences that unlawfully contain terms of imprisonment.

Section 107(1), (2), (3), (4), (11) and (13). Section 107(15) states;

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 112 (3).

…“or to imprisonment for a term of not more than three months, or to both”

Section 171(4).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 172.1(3).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 175(17).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 177(4).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 190(8).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Section 200(2).

…”or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.”

Edited by lawmen
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No one should agree since that is not true. Lots of our highways are built for much higher speeds.

The law applies to all highways and roads - including school zones.

The gov is not justified in removing rights. Sorry but rights are not there for the whim of the govt.

What the government giveth, the government may taketh away.

IF you throw in ..." after they have been found guilty in a court of law" people will likely agree with you.

Government has the legal right to do it. They do at the border all the time.

But if one ignores the infringement on rights, well.................

One would have to agree that 1) rights are inalienable, 2) rights are inviolate, and 3) driving a car is a right. Please cite the relevant legal statute that cites the inalienable right to drive a car on public roads.

Edited by Mad_Michael
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Can someone explain to me why anyone would defend people who drive 50k over the limit?

Off the road, denied the right to drive makes sense to me!

Why does anyone have a problem with this?

Street Racing death - Trial

The victim, Matthew Power, 21, was torn in half by a speeding vehicle in November 2006 as he crossed a Hamilton street at an intersection after watching a hockey game with friends.

Because it should be obvious to anyone that not everyone who gets persecuted by this law is guilty. I know I certainly wasn't!! I was only going 117Km on a 400 series highway when I was charged with going 158 km. Now I am literally on the hook for thousands of dollars I can't afford to prove my innocence.

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Because it should be obvious to anyone that not everyone who gets persecuted by this law is guilty. I know I certainly wasn't!! I was only going 117Km on a 400 series highway when I was charged with going 158 km. Now I am literally on the hook for thousands of dollars I can't afford to prove my innocence.

How did that happen?

Seems to me your problem isn't proving the law is wrong, but just proving you didn't break the law.

Edited by tango
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Because it should be obvious to anyone that not everyone who gets persecuted by this law is guilty. I know I certainly wasn't!! I was only going 117Km on a 400 series highway when I was charged with going 158 km. Now I am literally on the hook for thousands of dollars I can't afford to prove my innocence.

Your a "Damn Street Racer", I will sleep better knowing your off our highways and my daughter can play hop-scotch on the 401 once again!

However seeing that your having financial difficulties paying for your lead foot, perhaps you could contact one these fine officers for some tips in side stepping up front penalties or were they allowed to exercise thier civil rights?

Edited by SmellyBoxers
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Because it should be obvious to anyone that not everyone who gets persecuted by this law is guilty. I know I certainly wasn't!! I was only going 117Km on a 400 series highway when I was charged with going 158 km. Now I am literally on the hook for thousands of dollars I can't afford to prove my innocence.

My friend, you can represent yourself in court for free.

Section 128 of the highway traffic act conflicts with s. 172. You cannot and will not be convicted under s. 172. Fight it, you're only facing a $500 or so fine even if convicted.

You can also file constutitional questions during your trial and get the law struck down, which is what a lawyer should've done by now, but they are all corrupt. They want the law to stand so they can continue to rip off the citizens of Ontario.

You can also sue the cop who charged you in small claims court for next to nothing for all damages you have incurred if your car was impounded and you lost your licence, had to take taxis, etc.

You can also have the cop criminal charged for stealing your car, since s. 172 is invalid.

If you need help, I'm here to help you for free. Ask away.

Edited by lawmen
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My friend, you can represent yourself in court for free.

Section 128 of the highway traffic act conflicts with s. 172. You cannot and will not be convicted under s. 172. Fight it, you're only facing a $500 or so fine even if convicted.

You can also file constutitional questions during your trial and get the law struck down, which is what a lawyer should've done by now, but they are all corrupt. They want the law to stand so they can continue to rip off the citizens of Ontario.

You can also sue the cop who charged you in small claims court for next to nothing for all damages you have incurred if your car was impounded and you lost your licence, had to take taxis, etc.

You can also have the cop criminal charged for stealing your car, since s. 172 is invalid.

If you need help, I'm here to help you for free. Ask away.

While representing yourself in court is always an option, I firmly believe in the old saying "The person who represents himself has a fool for a client." I actually witnessed someone attempt to represent himself in a court proceeding (divorce court). What I discovered is that a court room is a Judge's playground. The judge that day, decided that since none of what my friend was going to present had been registered ahead of time, he would not be allowed to present it. (It was totally up to the judge's descretion, but she didn't care) Since nothing could be presented by the husband, she turned to the wife and give her absolutely everything on her wishlist.

For me in this proceeding, the stakes were too important. Losing would have costed me at least 5 to 6 thousand dollars, in fines and insurance rate hikes. Losing my license could very well cost me my job, and as the primary breadwinner for our family that is not a good thing. I figured I had nothing to lose hiring a good lawyer.

I have timestamped photos of my GPS device showing the Max speed ever recorded. I have information from Garmin, the device's manufacturer testifying to the device's accuracy. I have eye witness testimony from my wife who looked over my shoulder when we saw the cop parked on the side of the road confirming my speed. But according to my lawyer, information on my GPS device information is hearsay, and may not be presentable, and there is no guarantee they would believe my wife. My lawyer said that there are ways around the hearsay laws, that could make this information presentable.

I could very well imagine myself, not know these rules, representing myself, trying to present this information and being totally overruled by the judge and getting the book thrown at me.

Has anyone in Ontario successfully sued a police officer in small claims court over the expenses of a traffic ticket? Because I would love to screw that pr*ck of a cop over this.

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"The person who represents himself has a fool for a client."

You know who wrote this motto?

A lawyer, he didn't want people cutting his business throat.

In reality, "the only good lawyer is a dead one."

You hired a lawyer but he hasn't told you the law has issues and is probably unconstitutional?

He hasn't told you that s. 172 conflicts with s. 128 and all you're facing is a fine of under $600?

How much is he charging you?

You assume you're facing a $2,000 to $10,000 fine and a possible prison term, higher insurance rates etc.

How much would you pay a lawyer to get you off this charge if it were true?

A few thousands, right?

How much would you pay a lawyer to get you off a $600 fine?

Not more than $600, probably, right?

Tell your lawyer he's a scumbag for me.

Now, did you lose your licence for seven days? Yes or no?

Did you have to pay licence reinstatement fees to the MTO?

If yes, how much did you pay?

Did you have your car impounded fo seven days? Yes or no?

If yes, how much did you spend on towing and storage?

Did you have to take taxi's while you lost your licence and car? If so, how much did you spend?

How much have you given your lawyer so far and how much does he claim this case will cost you for his so-called professional services?

Edited by lawmen
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Can someone explain to me why anyone would defend people who drive 50k over the limit?

Off the road, denied the right to drive makes sense to me!

Why does anyone have a problem with this?

Street Racing death - Trial

The victim, Matthew Power, 21, was torn in half by a speeding vehicle in November 2006 as he crossed a Hamilton street at an intersection after watching a hockey game with friends.

Is something inherently wrong with driving faster. Jet planes go a lot damn faster and get into less accidents, trains can travel really damn fast.. etc...

It is not about the speed but safety exercised in driving.. think the autobahn etc..

Speed limits can be determinental to freedom of movement - if no one is around and you are in control what does it matter?

I think this focus on preventing fatalities in our harshly overpopulated world diverts from the reasonable mindset of enjoyment of life while we have it.

What good is living a tasteless long life without ever really enjoying it. It feels more natural at times to drive at a faster speed. that is it right there.

Edited by William Ashley
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Yes I will , the moment you show me where I said "it is a right to drive a car" .

I do have a right to a trial ...then punishment. Not the opther way around.

I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT AGREEING TO SOMEONE FROM THE INSURANCE BUSINESS!!!! IF YOU KEEP THIS UP < MY FRUSTRATIONS WILL PEAK. ;):P

I actually have to agree with my evil nemesis vs MAD (Handle) Micheal.

There is alot that is wrong with the Street Racing Legislation. Having seen a man in a car pulled over and charged with street racing, while making a right hand turn, while pulling up beside a motorcycle that was going straight.

He was actually lane splitting, and often it is the other way around, where the Car is going straight and the Motorcycle or Bicycle comes up to the right of the vehicle, stops and then makes the turn. This time it was in reverse, and depending on which city you are in, the practice is either frowned upon or accepted and ignored.

I don't believe this person should have had their car impounded. I don't believe the old guy really knew what he did wrong. Perhap it was just a way to get the 66 year old guy off the road.

I believe people are fooled by the title of the legislation and its enforcement. This is why so many of the charges are being dropped or lost in court or moved to the proper charge.

I haven't followed the issue for a few months now, I am hoping that the Enforcement of the law has taken a more realistic and practical approach.

As for Mad Micheal.

If I am charged with .... in your hypothetical..... going 50km over the speed limit, lose my car, licence and pay all the impound fees, and get to court in 6 months, only to find that I am NOT guilty, then there is a serious problem with this violation of my rights and the highway traffic act.

I have been a participant when an officer accidentally charged the wrong person in the parking lot after a chase through the streets. Pointing to the offender, the Officer was not biting. Multiple witnesses, a fast car, a wreckless driver, was not enough to convince the hyped up officer that he actually has the wrong person, when he asked for a younger mans ID.

It went to court, and all was rectified, except that the offender never did end up getting charged.

Had this event happened today, some poor sap standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong car, would have probably lost his Car, his Job, his money, his licence and been in a heap of trouble for years, vs 6 months of feeling guilty for nothing.

Luckily his record was never affected, he never lost his car, or his job or had to pay huge fines and towing fees.

The officer made an honest, yet judgemental mistake. He wanted to get the bad guy and he made a guess, even though he was following the violater for 3 blocks, he got picked the wrong car in the parking lot.

I have sat in a parking lot with 5 motorcycles, only to see an OPP cruiser come off the highway drive into the local Hortons and accuse the said riders of speeding on the highway. It didn't take very long for the officer to realize he made an error in his judgement, had the wrong people, as many witnesses and cold engines would as well as the Hortons security would back up.

These guys are trying to do their job. Sometimes, not often, considering I am using two examples from 29 years of driving, they make mistakes.

The Conviction rate of the Street Racing Legislation is troubling to say the least.

If you gottem, you gottem. Prove it in court. Then take the toys/licence away.

Not visa versa.

Trial then Punishment....

What do insurance guys know. GO AWAY, your evil :P

;)

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I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT AGREEING TO SOMEONE FROM THE INSURANCE BUSINESS!!!! IF YOU KEEP THIS UP < MY FRUSTRATIONS WILL PEAK. ;):P

You dont have to agree , just concur.

If I am charged with .... in your hypothetical..... going 50km over the speed limit, lose my car, licence and pay all the impound fees, and get to court in 6 months, only to find that I am NOT guilty, then there is a serious problem with this violation of my rights and the highway traffic act.

Agree, 100%.

Thankfully the rate of conviction is now below 30% IIRC.

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