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are we underestimating Dion?


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I seem to remember a lot of opposition leaders who sat in almost the same position as Dion. the thing that stands out is that he is maintaining a respectability that we don't see with the harper crowd.harper and his goons have showed their total distain for parliament and its members. I can't beleive that they think Dion is as ineffective as they let on. why are the cpc spending so much time and money in trying to convince people that Dion is not a leader?

is there something that we the general public are missing? is harper and his flunkies aware of something that we are missing? is Dion too honest and honourable for harper's low standards? why do the ndp spend more time putting down the lpc than they do the governing party? What are we missing here?

I find Dion hard to understand and personally think that Bob Rae would make a better leader, but that is not the way it is. The question is , what is it about Dion that scares the crap out of harper and his goons?

Why do the harperites think that Canadians will believe all their lies when the past clerly shows they cannot be believed on anything. Thank God that Canadian voters have a way of getting to the truth and getting it right in the end.

hoping an election will rid the country of this sad exscuse of a PM andstart a trend of honesty and caring in our gov.

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I seem to remember a lot of opposition leaders who sat in almost the same position as Dion. the thing that stands out is that he is maintaining a respectability that we don't see with the harper crowd.harper and his goons have showed their total distain for parliament and its members. I can't beleive that they think Dion is as ineffective as they let on. why are the cpc spending so much time and money in trying to convince people that Dion is not a leader?

is there something that we the general public are missing? is harper and his flunkies aware of something that we are missing? is Dion too honest and honourable for harper's low standards? why do the ndp spend more time putting down the lpc than they do the governing party? What are we missing here?

I find Dion hard to understand and personally think that Bob Rae would make a better leader, but that is not the way it is. The question is , what is it about Dion that scares the crap out of harper and his goons?

Why do the harperites think that Canadians will believe all their lies when the past clerly shows they cannot be believed on anything. Thank God that Canadian voters have a way of getting to the truth and getting it right in the end.

hoping an election will rid the country of this sad exscuse of a PM andstart a trend of honesty and caring in our gov.

Oh I don't know the thing that scares me about Dion is let me think... his commie green shift plan for starters.

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why are the cpc spending so much time and money in trying to convince people that Dion is not a leader?

Because the best way to get re-elected is to show how your opponent is a goombaa?

How many premiers are now opposed to the Green Shaft? Four, or is it Five?

And look what a carbon tax rip-off is doing for Gordon Campbell's popularity?

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hoping an election will rid the country of this sad exscuse of a PM andstart a trend of honesty and caring in our gov.

With Dion? :lol:

He didn't care that they took the name "Green Shift" knowing full well the company that built this name, didn't want them to use it.

That's caring.

Dion is a traditional LPC opportunist. He plays the meek one, but he does the same game as every other LPC leader and quite frankly, its still the same cronies in the LPC. A mean and nasty bunch, who if you look at many of their webpages are ignorant, rude, and use bully tactics.

Harper comes across as a bullie, and he is stubborn to the point of no return. I don't see any degree of honesty and accountability from his "New" government. I see tricks and sneaky strategies.

But for undermining Leaders like Dion. hmmm

Turner, Clark, Chretian, Campbell, Day, Manning, & Harper were all portrayed as Doofusses or the next Hitler.

Politics is a blood sport for many of the activists and spin doctors. There is no reason with them. They find a strategy that works, no matter how despicable and they run with.

Dion doesn't have to worry about the CPC attacks. That is normal for any new Opposition Leader.

For Dion his last words will be

ET tu Brute (erm BoB)

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Oh I don't know the thing that scares me about Dion is let me think... his commie green shift plan for starters.

You don't have problems with the commie payments for ethanol that Harper supports?

Edited by jdobbin
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Dion is a traditional LPC opportunist. He plays the meek one, but he does the same game as every other LPC leader and quite frankly, its still the same cronies in the LPC. A mean and nasty bunch, who if you look at many of their webpages are ignorant, rude, and use bully tactics.

I'm sure Bev Desjarlais feels the same way about Layton and his campaign against her. Layton's reward: a lost seat to the Liberals.

If this is a blood sport, Layton has shown that he reserves some of his nasty, thuggish behaviour for his own own party members. What happened to Desjarlais made even supportive members of the NDP in Manitoba blanch.

It must be frustrating for him and his own green plan which will add billions in passed on costs that have been shown not to reduce emissions very quickly. Moreover, there is no evidence that the NDP will redice taxes or cut spending. They are a deficit waiting to happen. Of course, Layton seems to indicate that deficits don't matter to him.

Edited by jdobbin
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You mean it is enough for him to win again if there was an election?

Actually Campbell is showing a stunning degree of arrogance and poor leadership these days. As well as the carbon tax he has shown a real disconnect with the people lately. After preaching to the unwashed that they need to be taxed to reduce emissions, in true Al Gore style, he hops a ride on a private jet to Beijing for the Olympics. On the opening day with him over there, the government announced that the top 100 civil servants had received raises the week before ranging from 25 to 40%, two years after they had a similar raise and the promise was made not to review them again until 2010. The cynicism of trying to sneak that by in such a manner has really backfired on them. No one knew these salaries were even under review. He has also initiated a gag law banning third party advertising leading up to the next election but no doubt we will be deluged with public funded adds telling us what a great job the "government" has been doing. This is just a sample of the kind of thing that this government is doing to alienate people. You find yourself thinking. What were they thinking? A lot these days.

I was listening to Bill Good this morning who is the top talk show host out here. He was doing us usual Friday morning review of provincial politics with a couple of the better known political reporters in Victoria. All three of them said they were amazed at the number of people who claimed to be long time liberal supporters that say they just won't vote for him the next time around. Unprecedented was a word that came up. I have a dilemma because I am one of them. If the NDP can get its act together (no small order) there is a reasonable chance Campbell will not be opening the Olympics.

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I can't beleive that they think Dion is as ineffective as they let on. is there something that we the general public are missing?

Maybe this...

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Liberal government led by me will unequivocally commit to ending Canada’s mission in Kandahar in 2009 and we will inform NATO of this deadline right away to ensure they find a replacement for Canada.

- Dion, Feb. 22, 2007

Source

:P

is Dion too honest and honourable for harper's low standards? start a trend of honesty and caring in our gov.
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is Dion too honest and honourable for harper's low standards?

I think Dion is too honest and honourable for politics period, let alone being a PM especially going against Harper who has made mean his m.o. (mean when he doesn't even have to be). And yet so many Canadians cheer the mean and discard the honourable as weak and ineffectual. When did we accept Harper's tactics as the standard? It sure doesn't bode well for our mentality now does it?

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Since Harper was elected, he's made no statistically significant gains in the polls. Quite an accomplishment. The fact is the majority of Canadians, about 65% do not trust/support Harper. They never will, and for good reason. They know that there is nothing that Harper says that can be trusted. Fixed election dates? Yeah, right.

Say what you will about Dion, he has not harmed the Liberal brand. And, during elections, the incumbent party tends to lose support.

The fact is none of the pre-election polls mean squat. What matters during an election is the quality of the campaign, and Liberals know how to run campaigns and win elections. Moreover, the Conservatives have no back bench strength, possibly with the exception of Prentice. The rest of the gang are buffoons.

Also on all files--environment, deficit, economy, Afghanistan, China, etc.--the trends are in the wrong direction thanks, in large part, to Conservative incompetence. As well, the Conservatives have a closet full of scandals from Khadr, to election spending fraud, to Cadman, to Maxine B.

The next election will produce either a Liberal minority or majority government. Harper and the Conservatives are toast.

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The Green Shift is an Eco Capitalist Plan. But this is Dions Greatest Strength and it doesn't sound like you will join him.
I'm surprised that anyone in Canada would believe any promise made by a Liberal. Do you really believe that if Dion became PM he would institute this green shift?

It is this huge divide bewteen words and actions that is the major problem of the Liberals.

Also on all files--environment, deficit, economy, Afghanistan, China, etc.--the trends are in the wrong direction thanks, in large part, to Conservative incompetence. As well, the Conservatives have a closet full of scandals from Khadr, to election spending fraud, to Cadman, to Maxine B.

The next election will produce either a Liberal minority or majority government. Harper and the Conservatives are toast.

On the contrary, the remarkable feature of this government is how it has avoided scandals and gaffes. When Harper moved into 24 Sussex, he (and most in his caucus) had never sat around a cabinet table.

There has been not a hint of dishonesty in any member of this government. By and large, Harper runs a tight ship.

Moreover, Harper has compromised with other parties and made this government work. It is the longest lasting minority government in Canadian history with the exception of King's coalitions in the 1920s. Rather than being an ideologue or even stubborn or a one-man show, Harper has been reasonable and sought the centre.

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Underestimating Dion? I think so since he appears to be an academic but he's far more politically driven in fact. He's a political animal.

If I had to guess, I'd say that we will have a minority government, likely with Harper in Sussex, after the next election. Dion will stay on for another election in which he might just win. Canada is an interesting era that will be known as the Harper-Dion era. They are worthy, honest opponents.

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I'm surprised that anyone in Canada would believe any promise made by a Liberal. Do you really believe that if Dion became PM he would institute this green shift?

It is this huge divide bewteen words and actions that is the major problem of the Liberals.

On the contrary, the remarkable feature of this government is how it has avoided scandals and gaffes. When Harper moved into 24 Sussex, he (and most in his caucus) had never sat around a cabinet table.

There has been not a hint of dishonesty in any member of this government. By and large, Harper runs a tight ship.

Moreover, Harper has compromised with other parties and made this government work. It is the longest lasting minority government in Canadian history with the exception of King's coalitions in the 1920s. Rather than being an ideologue or even stubborn or a one-man show, Harper has been reasonable and sought the centre.

-----

Underestimating Dion? I think so since he appears to be an academic but he's far more politically driven in fact. He's a political animal.

If I had to guess, I'd say that we will have a minority government, likely with Harper in Sussex, after the next election. Dion will stay on for another election in which he might just win. Canada is an interesting era that will be known as the Harper-Dion era. They are worthy, honest opponents.

We do not underestimate Dion - what you see is what you get - a girlified liberal with milky skin and the heart of a pink rabbit - Much like the Mayor of Toronto....who if you have a good look at.... this type of person - they are not men.....offend someone ? I hope so. What well happen to our nation when all the men are gone and we are left with morally neutral fools.??

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I think Dion is too honest and honourable for politics period, let alone being a PM especially going against Harper who has made mean his m.o. (mean when he doesn't even have to be). And yet so many Canadians cheer the mean and discard the honourable as weak and ineffectual. When did we accept Harper's tactics as the standard? It sure doesn't bode well for our mentality now does it?

Spoken like a true Liberal who ignores the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada under both Chretien and Martin were the most corrupt in recent memory. Dion talks about imposing a tax that he has delusions himself into believing will be revenue neutral, Such a tax will be anything but revenue neutral for working Canadians, becasue they will be paying far more for virtually every thing they buy and every service they subscribe to, and no small income tax credit will negate the fact that the people of this country will end up out-of-pocket large sums of what presently is disposable income.

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Spoken like a true Liberal who ignores the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada under both Chretien and Martin were the most corrupt in recent memory.

The notion that Canadian governments are corrupt is just silly. Are there transgressions and laws broken from time to time? Yes. But to the notion that the Liberal Party is the most corrupt in recent memory is wrong. My recent memory recalls Brian Mulroney and Shreiber, Harper and Cadman. And which party was it--let me think now--that launched the inquiry into the Sponsorship Scandal? That's right the Liberals. Harper's response to Conservative corruption like the In/Out campaign finance scandal is to stonewall.

Where's the corruption? Most of its with the Conservatives now.

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I think Dion is too honest and honourable for politics period, let alone being a PM especially going against Harper who has made mean his m.o. (mean when he doesn't even have to be). And yet so many Canadians cheer the mean and discard the honourable as weak and ineffectual. When did we accept Harper's tactics as the standard? It sure doesn't bode well for our mentality now does it?

It's interesting how various Liberal boosters and media rave about Dion being a man of great integrity - and your claim of being honest and honourable. The truth is that no one can tell how much integrity, honour and honesty someone has until they are put in a position where they have to make decisions - and compromises. Dion has not been tested at any level. His biggest accomplishment to date is the Clarity Act and the fact that he saved the country. In fact, Stephen Harper brought forward an almost identical act called the Quebec Contingency Act - which Chretien and the Liberals would not allow past first reading a full 4 or 5 years prior to the Clarity Act finally being put forward. You will not hear any credit given to Harper and all the credit given to Dion. The only other potential accomplishment is his Green Shift - yet Dion was vehemently opposed to a Carbon Tax yet that is precisely what his Green Shift offers. This guy is not even in power and his "integrity" and honesty are bruised. And of course, here's the classic leadership line: "Do you think it's easy to make priorities?".

Quebec Contingency Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Contingency_Act

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Spoken like a true Liberal who ignores the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada under both Chretien and Martin were the most corrupt in recent memory.

I don't see where people get that idea, especially when it comes to Martin. If anything, Paul Martin was too honest.

As for JC, well, he had his way about him, but he certainly wasn't bad for this country.

Edited by Smallc
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Dion talks about imposing a tax that he has delusions himself into believing will be revenue neutral, Such a tax will be anything but revenue neutral for working Canadians, becasue they will be paying far more for virtually every thing they buy and every service they subscribe to, and no small income tax credit will negate the fact that the people of this country will end up out-of-pocket large sums of what presently is disposable income.

Not delusional at all. Although Liberals will never admit it, the green shift plan was crafted to achieve very specific objectives. The green shift tax is the Liberal plan of replacing federal revenue lost through the 2% cut on the GST. The Liberals would love to reverse that tax cut but know that would be a suicidal move. Hence the need for a plan to increase revenue and that means introducing a new tax. The Liberals need the income lost from the GST cut to fund their social programs. This is even more important should our economy continue to slide. An added bonus to such a tax is that it plays up to the enviro crowd thereby setting the Liberals up as the saviors of the planet. It most certainly appeals to some Green Party supporters. This is all IMO, of course.

By and large, when Liberals speak about the green shift tax, the emphasis is on tax cuts for lower income Canadians. When asked about the resulting increased cost of consumables, Canadians are directed to the green shift tax calculator on the Liberals' green shift website, that is, if Liberals can remember and quote the proper website (www.thegreenshift.ca) and not the private company's Green Shift site (www.greenshift.ca).

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Not delusional at all. Although Liberals will never admit it, the green shift plan was crafted to achieve very specific objectives. The green shift tax is the Liberal plan of replacing federal revenue lost through the 2% cut on the GST. The Liberals would love to reverse that tax cut but know that would be a suicidal move. Hence the need for a plan to increase revenue and that means introducing a new tax. The Liberals need the income lost from the GST cut to fund their social programs. This is even more important should our economy continue to slide. An added bonus to such a tax is that it plays up to the enviro crowd thereby setting the Liberals up as the saviors of the planet. It most certainly appeals to some Green Party supporters. This is all IMO, of course.

By and large, when Liberals speak about the green shift tax, the emphasis is on tax cuts for lower income Canadians. When asked about the resulting increased cost of consumables, Canadians are directed to the green shift tax calculator on the Liberals' green shift website, that is, if Liberals can remember and quote the proper website (www.thegreenshift.ca) and not the private company's Green Shift site (www.greenshift.ca).

The atmosphere and environ is global - of course the carbon tax is theft and totally DILLUSIONARY- How could it not be - look at the carbon floating around China that we support and pay for - that will drift to us ultimately via the winds...we can be as green as we want and as long as China operates like a mega 1950's steel plant with no restrictions on pollution - it's hopeless to tax the Canadians with this carbon thing - where do you think this tax money will go? It will go to corporate bail outs (welfare) and these corporations in time will send our money to China who will make more carbon and other filth - boy are we delluded.

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