Does Canada lack a decent Conservative Party?

[1967100]

When you really think about it, around 30%-50% of Canadians would be willing to vote Conservative as long as it is moderate (centre-right), will not sell us out to the United States like Mulroney or Harper did, and runs a clean government. If you look towards Europe, you'll see that many of the countries there have had Conservative parties govern for decades (like the UMP in France, the People's Party in Spain, the Conservatives in the UK, and in Italy).

Many of these parties managed to hold to power by sticking to moderate centre-right policies, avoiding scandal and corruption, and not sucking up to the US (defend natural interests) which I don't think the CPC stands for.

Rather, what we see here in Canada is a constant sucking-up to the Republicans (think NAFTA-gate), and horrible scandals (Bernier, Cadman).

Edited August 14, 2008 by 1967100

[eyeball]

...what we see here in Canada is a constant sucking-up to the Republicans (think NAFTA-gate)...

I was thinking more along the lines of the war on (some) drugs and other similarily hopeless military quagmires.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was thinking more along the lines of the war on (some) drugs and other similarily hopeless military quagmires.

Right...most of which occurred on the Grits watch....so much for CPC "sucking up".

[madmax]

Right...most of which occurred on the Grits watch....so much for CPC "sucking up".

Bush likes Grits too

[White Doors]

All in all I am quite happy with the CPC. Harper is a strong leader and shows that he will stick up for what he believes to be right despite what the polls may say and I respect that.

The better question to ask is: Does Canada's reflex anti-Americanism keep the CPC's polling numbers artifically low?

ie: There would be more CPC voters simply if Anti-Americanism wasn't a defining Canadian trait to 30-40% of the population.

I think anti-Americanism in Canada is on the decline. When we grow up as a nation we will learn to define ourselves on our own terms and not define ourselves on what the Americans are not. This would not only help the CPC's, this would help the liberals too and most certainly be the death of the NDP. That, in my opinion will help lessen partisan politics to a degree and really move our country forward. I hope I live to see it.

[madmax]

All in all I am quite happy with the CPC. Harper is a strong leader and shows that he will stick up for what he believes to be right despite what the polls may say and I respect that.

The better question to ask is: Does Canada's reflex anti-Americanism keep the CPC's polling numbers artifically low?

ie: There would be more CPC voters simply if Anti-Americanism wasn't a defining Canadian trait to 30-40% of the population.

I think anti-Americanism in Canada is on the decline. When we grow up as a nation we will learn to define ourselves on our own terms and not define ourselves on what the Americans are not. This would not only help the CPC's, this would help the liberals too and most certainly be the death of the NDP. That, in my opinion will help lessen partisan politics to a degree and really move our country forward. I hope I live to see it.

Canadians spend more time fighting amongst each other, and always have, vs the anti Americanism you suggest. It is far down the scale. Even during the War of 1812 when we were burning down each others capitals the friendships and cross cultural trade continued inspite of the Military engagements.

Newfoundland lowers our Flags. Alberta has a Separtist Movement and strong US ties. The Atlantics want their own separate movements and have had movements strong and weak since confederation. Quebec wants to Leave, and the Western Provinces are full of populism that swings right and left on an issue by issue basis, more in tune with US libertarianism.

Any Canadian Government has its hands full trying to hold this country together. Perhaps the proof that America is our best Neighbour, is that they have never bothered to inflame our regional differences, like Frances Charles Degaul did when he promoted a separate Quebec.

Every Canadian Prime Minister has had their differences with the US. Mulroney being the most compatable but, having a very different opinion of South Africa and Acid Rain, then Reagan.

I like this minority parliment. I wouldn't let the reins off Harper yet. I would be interested in seeing what he does with Fortier when he fails to get elected.

I am waiting to see where he parachutes Emerson.

Anybody seen Joe Clark, that's my vote

[White Doors]

haha

Mine as well.

You would, however, be forced to agree that Anti-Americanism as a defining Canadian trait would be a more common, uniting trait than regionalism - with the possible exception of Quebec and Alberta.

There are more Anti-Americans in Alberta than there are Alberta seperatists.

It is more 'main stream' and 'PC' to be Anti-American than a seperatist - despite our regional differences.

There, that is what I was trying to say.

All the more reason,, in my mind, that Harper is hoping Obama wins in November.

If Obama wins, it will dampen the howls of Bush lover and Bush lapdog that the far left likes to try (with some success) and tar Harper with. One less influential weapon with which to paint Harper as not your tyical Canuck.

That's my take anyways.

[Keepitsimple]

It will be very interesting to see if Obama wins the US Presidency. Canadians overwhelmingly seem to regard him as a saviour from the Republicans. If the Liberals don't pull the plug this year and allow the Conservatives to govern until next year with Obama as the President, there won't be an anti-American card to play - nor can Harper continue to be childishly accused of being a Bush clone or "sucking up" to the Republicans.....especially if Harper can quickly establish a good relationship with Obama. This is a very likely scenario and bodes well for the Conservatives.

[jdobbin]

It will be very interesting to see if Obama wins the US Presidency. Canadians overwhelmingly seem to regard him as a saviour from the Republicans. If the Liberals don't pull the plug this year and allow the Conservatives to govern until next year with Obama as the President, there won't be an anti-American card to play - nor can Harper continue to be childishly accused of being a Bush clone or "sucking up" to the Republicans.....especially if Harper can quickly establish a good relationship with Obama. This is a very likely scenario and bodes well for the Conservatives.

You don't think that Canada might want its own liberal leader as well?

[Keepitsimple]

You don't think that Canada might want its own liberal leader as well?

No.

[jdobbin]

No.

And you believe that Harper's minority status in the polls is just anti-Americanism?

[Keepitsimple]

And you believe that Harper's minority status in the polls is just anti-Americanism?

Even on this board, there are several posters who think that Harper cozies up to Bush. It doesn't take much of a swing to get a majority and having Democrats in the White House negates a lot of that empty rhetoric.

[White Doors]

It will be very interesting to see if Obama wins the US Presidency. Canadians overwhelmingly seem to regard him as a saviour from the Republicans. If the Liberals don't pull the plug this year and allow the Conservatives to govern until next year with Obama as the President, there won't be an anti-American card to play - nor can Harper continue to be childishly accused of being a Bush clone or "sucking up" to the Republicans.....especially if Harper can quickly establish a good relationship with Obama. This is a very likely scenario and bodes well for the Conservatives.

Agreed. However, I think McCain is likely going to win.

[WIP]

Does Canada lack a decent Conservative Party?

You bet we do! I can't believe I actually supported this Reform/Alliance party that ended up dissolving the stodgy old federal P.C. Party.

I agreed with "The West Wants In" and even the Triple E Senate, and other Western initiatives, because it became obvious that the old party and the division of seats in Parliament unfairly rewards Quebec and the Maritimes, and did not provide enough seats for Western provinces that are growing in size --- but, as they say, be careful what you ask for!

Now, with this Harper Government in charge, the whole country is being governed according to Alberta's interests, especially when it comes to pushing these dirty oilsands projects!

[Canadian Blue]

If you look towards Europe, you'll see that many of the countries there have had Conservative parties govern for decades (like the UMP in France, the People's Party in Spain, the Conservatives in the UK, and in Italy).

Nicolas Sarkozy is considered very conservative in France. In Great Britian they had Margaret Thatcher as PM for over a decade. I don't find Harper to be that far to the right, if anything he's much more moderate than I expected.

I do think we need an NDP of the right, but I wouldn't want one with our current electoral system since it would simply be a rehash of the 93, 97, and 2000 election.

[Wild Bill]

Does Canada lack a decent Conservative Party?

You bet we do! I can't believe I actually supported this Reform/Alliance party that ended up dissolving the stodgy old federal P.C. Party.

I agreed with "The West Wants In" and even the Triple E Senate, and other Western initiatives, because it became obvious that the old party and the division of seats in Parliament unfairly rewards Quebec and the Maritimes, and did not provide enough seats for Western provinces that are growing in size --- but, as they say, be careful what you ask for!

Now, with this Harper Government in charge, the whole country is being governed according to Alberta's interests, especially when it comes to pushing these dirty oilsands projects!

+1! I was there too! Isn't it amazing that when the merger occurred all the talk was about the poor PC party being so small and being swallowed up by the big bad Reform/Alliance party.

Now look how things turned out. That tiny PC rump has taken control of the new party and for all practical purposes it is a clone of what we had in Mulroney's day.

Makes you wonder why Manning ever bothered!

I keep saying this but it bears repeating. There were millions of loyal Reform voters. It's very unlikely that most of them feel the same inspiration and loyalty with the present Conservative Party as they did with Manning's movement.

They've had the choice taken away from them and likely are staying with the new Tories simply by default. Still, if another Manning comes out of the wilderness it would be very interesting to see how much of the present support would stay with the CPC.

Harper is fortunate that the other parties look so bad to the typical Reform type voter. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see voter turnout drop even more as some folks simply lose heart.