Anthrax suspect commits suicide

[Guest American Woman]

Federal prosecutors investigating the 2001 anthrax attacks were planning to indict and seek the death penalty against a top Army microbiologist in connection with anthrax mailings that killed five people. The scientist, who was developing a vaccine against the deadly toxin, committed suicide this week. link

Officials said that Ivins, who shared in the 2003 Decoration for Exceptional Civilian Service, was under investigation to determine whether he released the anthrax as a way to test his vaccine.

Prosecutors were going for the death penalty. That would be pretty bizarre if he sent it out as a way to test his vaccine. I really don't see how that could have been the reason since the people who received it hadn't been vaccinated, to my knowledge. I hadn't heard anything about it if they were.

He had been under investigation for about a year, so he very likely could have known they were closing in on him. I would say that his suicide is a pretty good indication of guilt. At least I believe that's how most will perceive it.

[edited to fix link]

Edited August 1, 2008 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

The more I think about this, the more uncertain I am that his suicide is proof of his guilt. It seems to me that wrapping up this case without having to have a trial is a 'neat and tidy' way to close the case. It's also interesting to me how little people seem to care about this since it wasn't 'terrorists' who mailed the anthrax.

Edited August 1, 2008 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

The more I think about this, the more uncertain I am that his suicide was really a suicide.

[bush_cheney2004]

The more I think about this, the more uncertain I am that his suicide was really a suicide.

Well, that sure didn't take long. Another fine conspiracy theory is born!

[BubberMiley]

Well, that sure didn't take long. Another fine conspiracy theory is born!

You don't think it would be a reasonable action to take him out if there was compelling evidence he was a traitor? A trial might give him the opportunity to further compromise national security by revealing secret information. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[bush_cheney2004]

You don't think it would be a reasonable action to take him out if there was compelling evidence he was a traitor? A trial might give him the opportunity to further compromise national security by revealing secret information. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Oh I love that....."take him out". You can learn so much from Hollywood!

[Guest American Woman]

Well, that sure didn't take long. Another fine conspiracy theory is born!

You do realize that sometimes conspiracy theories are later proven correct, right?

[GostHacked]

You do realize that sometimes conspiracy theories are later proven correct, right?

Watch out American Woman, you might be thrown into the tinfoil hat wearin crowd. People get taken out all the time. The mafia call it a 'hit'. People pay other people to take other people out all the time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/23/...ain504460.shtml

The newspaper reports in its Saturday editions that a Florida doctor now believes a man he treated in June had skin anthrax. That man, it turns out, was one of the Sept. 11 hijackers, the newspaper reports in its Saturday editions, prompting suspicions among investigators about a possible link between Osama bin Laden’s terrorist group and the mailings.

So a conspiracy must have happened between this now dead scientists and at least one other person. In the beginning the anthrax was tied to Al-Queda and another guy being detained in Pakistan.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6103001250.html

In December 2001, as the investigation into the U.S. anthrax attacks was gathering steam, coalition soldiers in Afghanistan uncovered what appeared to be an important clue: a trail of documents chronicling an attempt by al-Qaeda to create its own anthrax weapon.

The documents told of a singular mission by a scientist named Abdur Rauf, an obscure, middle-aged Pakistani with alleged al-Qaeda sympathies and an advanced degree in microbiology.

But after all this, it turns out to be a simple scientists that is an American. Not only American, they were part of the military.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...anthrax020.html

WASHINGTON — After four years pursuing one former Army scientist on a false trail, FBI agents investigating the deadly anthrax letters of 2001 zeroed in last year on a different suspect: another Army scientist from the same biodefense research center at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Md.

As the government battled a lawsuit filed by the first scientist, Steven Hatfill, investigators built a case against the second one, Bruce Ivins, a respected microbiologist who had worked for years to design a better anthrax vaccine.

Last weekend, after learning federal prosecutors were preparing to indict him on murder charges, Ivins, 62, a father of two, took an overdose of Tylenol with codeine. He died in a Frederick hospital Tuesday, leaving uncertainty about whether the anthrax mystery had been solved.

The source of the Anthrax scare?? The US Military. This comming just after 9/11, when the US is still very shaken up by the terror attack. It created more fear. This anthrax scare was terrorism ... and it was not Al-Queda.

[bush_cheney2004]

The source of the Anthrax scare?? The US Military. This comming just after 9/11, when the US is still very shaken up by the terror attack. It created more fear. This anthrax scare was terrorism ... and it was not Al-Queda.

Any thinking person knew that weaponized anthrax could only come from specific sources, and the American lab was always high on the list. They even drained about a dozen man-made ponds in Frederick Municipal Forest looking for "glove boxes". The "vast government conspiracy" was so complete that they spent years and millions of dollars investigating the wrong guy. (Oh wait...that was just years of mis-direction as part of the genius conspiracy plot....yea...that's it.)

For those who want to see a boogey man behind every tree, be my guest. The Tylenol scare in Chicago killed more people than did this Anthrax "conspiracy". That was in 1982.

Edited August 2, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

The Tylenol scare in Chicago killed more people than did this Anthrax "conspiracy". That was in 1982.

The earthquake in San Francisco killed more people than did the WTC attacks. That was in 1906. And it's as relevant as your response is.

Edited August 2, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

The earthquake in San Francisco killed more people than did the WTC attacks. That was in 1906. And it's as relevant as your response is.

My half-assed conspiracy yarns are just as valid as anybody else's.....lump it.

[obsidian]

Lol, the anthrax WAS made in the United States. There can be no question to the motives of the attack. The letter attacks instilled fear and guaranteed the mobilization of the Amerikan war machine after 9/11. 9/11 could of easily been interpetted as a one off, I still doubt we'll see anything like that ever again. But because of the anthrax attacks it appeared it would be a legitimate and ongoing threat. It is not a rational fear, for Amerika, the most powerful country in the world to be intimidated by Afghanistan, or Iraq who's leading cause of death pre-war was diarhea...because of the 1st gulf war. The threat doesn't exist in the context it is presented in and any of the actions to prevent/deter have only created more hatred towards Amerika.

The population was manipulated into a war that they did not have the will to fight in. That is the same problem that The Project for the New Amerikan Century identified, the publics unwillingness to wage war. The PNAC signatories must have been psychic or maybe just lucky, unlucky for us. They stated that Amerikans would be unwilling to wage a war of conquest while knowing that's what it was about.

They stated, ""Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor..."

Wow 9/11 was that not exactly what they were calling for??

Since 1998 PNAC has been lobbying Amerikan Presidents to wage war against Iraq....They were telling clinton to go and bomb Iraq.

Here's another one of their great ideas, "And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

Great...

Id give you guys the PDF but im at work n it's at home but guess what THEY REMOVED IT FROM THE WEBSITE

www.newamericancentury.org......you can probally find it somewhere else online though

Among the many signatories of PNAC are Cheney, Jeb Bush, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Mark Brzezinski.

their main goals were:

Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East; (iraq)

* Modernize U.S. forces, including enhancing our fighter aircraft, submarine and surface fleet capabilities;

* Develop and deploy a global missile defense system, and develop a strategic dominance of space; (US missile sheild, when they shot down their own sattelite)

* Control the "International Commons" of cyberspace; (weaponizing the internet)

* Increase defense spending to a minimum of 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, up from the 3 percent currently spent. (not sure not gonna check if it has occured, i know the next budget is a trillion which would definetly do it)

This all comes under the actual, not speculative or desired, Full Spectrum Dominance.

And for those of you who forgot, which most likely is all of you(including myself), here is what the note said. To prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the motivations of the anthrax attacks:

09-11-01

This is next

Take Penacillin now

Death to America

Death to Israel

Allah is great

1) he posed as a Muslim terrorist

2) "This is next" ensues that there will be more to come ergo a reason to fear it

3) He states "take penicillin now", wait that doesn't sound like

4) In the note it reiterated 9/11, making the reader believe they are linked

5) These attacks were directed at media and 2 senators, perhaps gov't intimidation against anyone questioning the official story?

09-11-01

You can not stop us.

We have anthrax.

You die now.

Are you afraid?

Death to America.

Death to Israel.

Allah is great.

Same shit, lil more fear mongering.

Remember the anthrax was from a gov't lab. He could of committed suicide because of the guilt and how he was facing the death penalty either way, he could of been suicided because he might of told the judge that it was an order he recieved from a superior, or he could of been suicided to just place the blame on him and stop the investigation.

Without these attacks there is a significant possibility that we would not be in Afghanistan and therefore Iraq.

Sorry Bout that PNAC shit, deserves its own thread

and anybody who still doesn't believe that this wasn't the workings of the gov't

"REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY"

Edited August 5, 2008 by obsidian

[jdobbin]

The more I think about this, the more uncertain I am that his suicide is proof of his guilt. It seems to me that wrapping up this case without having to have a trial is a 'neat and tidy' way to close the case. It's also interesting to me how little people seem to care about this since it wasn't 'terrorists' who mailed the anthrax.

It certainly would help if the evidence was shown as to why the FBI believed this man was the prime suspect. They seemed pretty sure of that other person as well and only recently compensated him for the persecution. That is not something the FBI does too often.

[White Doors]

ummm..

I'm no conspiracy expert, but if it was a conspiracy perpetuated by the higher echelons of the American governmnet against the people of America, then why would this ever come out? I mean we should never know right?

They very publicly investigated this for years and there is even a lawsuit going on about it - do you of the tinfoil crowd really believe that the consprators would have 'allowed' this to have been investigated by the FBI? Wouldn't it have been in the conspirator's best interest to silence the investigation and off a couple of FBI agents? Isn't the fact that there were two public investigations that led to a US defence lab the very proof needed that there was in fact, no conspiracy?

Also, why is this 'explanation' so easily believed?

For example, if the investigation came about and concluded that the anthrax came from Libya, would it have been so easily accepted by the Alcan groupies? How come since a rogue Dr in the US military seems to be responsible, this is believed? Perhaps because you are not looking at this objectively?

I don't know, learn me please.

Obviously I am an ignorant sheeple with no cognitive thinking skills.

Edited August 5, 2008 by White Doors

[obsidian]

It doesnt matter that more ppl were killed by aspirin BC. It matters that it was the US military was involved in fearmongering and the fact it occured right after 9/11 which lead to widespread fear and panic. Which lead to the patriot act among other things that destroy citizens rights and cause them to die(afghanistan, iraq). But of course none of that matters. To you it never will, that must suck robot. lol. you are a drone

[White Doors]

Without these attacks there is a significant possibility that we would not be in Afghanistan and therefore Iraq.

As someone who was not 10 years old in 2001 I can tell you without a doubt that the US would have been in Afghanistan and Iraq with or without the Anthrax scares. Compared to 9/11 the Anthrax scares were more of a weird diversion, nothing more. 9/11 was the impetous to both Iraq and Afghanistan not the Anthrax.

Your significant possibility is simply incorrect.

[White Doors]

It doesnt matter that more ppl were killed by aspirin BC. It matters that it was the US military was involved in fearmongering and the fact it occured right after 9/11 which lead to widespread fear and panic. Which lead to the patriot act among other things that destroy citizens rights and cause them to die(afghanistan, iraq). But of course none of that matters. To you it never will, that must suck robot. lol. you are a drone

aww.. comeone, at least be up to date on your character assasination of the non-believers...

Sheeple is the latest. Please update your notes.

thanks

[obsidian]

But if it was a conspiracy, wouldn't they want to release it to make it not look like a conspiracy? Cuz that's what you would do right? using your logic..................... -____- Use the facts in relation to other events and facts not what you trust as unquestionable and unbreakable echelons of power (or you'll never think for yourself). If you make the connections ie. you read the anthrax notes (THATS ALL YOU NEED TO DO) with your cognitive thinking skills you should be able to see the authors motivation to writing these letters. It also coincides with the governments and PNAC's (effectively the gov't) goals...so I guess either he just liked what they were up to or was acting with them. or had no clue what he was doing and was psychotic

Edited August 5, 2008 by obsidian

[obsidian]

nah sheeple is olddd, i never used the term on anyone anyways. what is it like 5% are born leaders so I just assume the other 95% relish in their enslavement. i'm fine with anyones beliefs I'm just posting my own opinion. I would hardly call that a character assasination, I wouldn't even say attempted character assasination....he does it himself. All I said is hes a robot and a drone...how offensive lol

Why should i care if you say a word is old.......

[White Doors]

Obsidian

In what possible scenario could the anthrax scare not be a conspiracy then?

I mean, if the FBI found that the anthrax came from another country, would you have thought that reasonable and that there was no conspiracy? or rather would have you been here telling us it was a coverup?

Please be honest.

What if they investigated and after years they admitted that they still didn't know where the anthrax came from? Wouldn't that be evidence of a coverup?

Wouldn't an investigation pointing TO a US defence department employee be the LEAST desireable to the conspirators in the US government?

I mean, don't be offended when I ask what scenario would be possible for you to NOT think that there was a 'conpiracy' here?

Each way I look at it, I can see you on here making the same exact 'argument' for the existence of a government conspiracy.

You also failed to respond to the majority of my points.

[White Doors]

nah sheeple is olddd, i never used the term on anyone anyways. what is it like 5% are born leaders so I just assume the other 95% relish in their enslavement. i'm fine with anyones beliefs I'm just posting my own opinion. I would hardly call that a character assasination, I wouldn't even say attempted character assasination....he does it himself. All I said is hes a robot and a drone...how offensive lol

Why should i care if you say a word is old.......

Interesting.

So by accepting everything as a conspiracy makes you think of yourself as a leader and not a follower?

Question - Do you always, without fail, root for the underdog in sports?

[obsidian]

How about: August 10, 1995. Say there are 4 anthrax letters mailed. they did not coincide with any political events. Or lets say about any other day +/- 2-3 weeks before/after 9/11 that didn't originate from the US BC weapon facility. I only used that logic to prove that there was a flaw in your logic, the flaw you pointed out was actually your initial mistake(yw). With a mindset like that it is impossible to accomplish anything. I'm calling it a conspiracy because I believe it is just as, if not more plausible, that they are related due to the contents and context of the information provided and what it eventually led too. Rather than believeing 2 related things are somehow unrelated.

I didn't believe there was a "conspiracy" until I found out that the 2 people that had been investigated were both in the US military. And then I read the note. And btw if you can remember back, there was speculation that the letters came from Iraq.

ABC news released that it contained Betonite, a signature of the Iraqi biological weapons program. This was an non-sourced and unverified yet it many lies were built upon this one.

I'm not sure if panic is quite the right word, but it is close enough. Anthrax played a role in my decision to support the Bush administration's desire to take out Saddam Hussein. I linked him to anthrax, which I linked to Sept. 11. I was not going to stand by and simply wait for another attack -- more attacks. I was going to go to the source, Hussein, and get him before he could get us. As time went on, I became more and more questioning, but I had a hard time backing down from my initial whoop and holler for war.-Richard Cohen, Washington Post

^^(I bet he was the only one who felt this way...he still spread the idea to hundreds of thousands though....)

In a sense maybe, but in no way to I claim to be an leader, especially facelessly on a forum lol. Leaders don't ask for followers, they do their own thing. I try to be original and formulate my own opinions and ideas rather than taking assumptions as universal truths.

I don't root for either team

I barely watch sports

And when I do I'm indifferent

But I play sports

what do you make of that?

Edited August 5, 2008 by obsidian

[White Doors]

What do I make of it?

I make that you didn't answer my question.

Fact is, for you and I imagine for a great mean of your bent, no matter who or what was found to have sent these letters you would have been on here screaming conspiracy anyways. This is why you and others like you are not believed by rational people.

You also think 9/11 was a hoax.

I wonder if you believe the moon landing were real?

Myself, I think WW2 in fact, DID NOT EVEN HAPPEN!!!!

[obsidian]

well I don't see how I didn't answer you asked "Question - Do you always, without fail, root for the underdog in sports?"

And I did answer that, you may want to reread and bust out you cognitive thinking cap though.

And I answered the other question as well when I "wouldn't think it was a conspiracy", w/e you don't believe my answer, do I care? No.

You assume I am a 9/11 "truthie" just as much as you assume I assume you're a sheep person(singular of sheeple???loll) Your the one making the assumptions...

"This is why you and others like you are not believed by rational people."

And there you go with your assumptions again, they aren't even yours, think for yourself schmuck

Strangely enough, 9/11 polls shows 1/2-1/3 of the country (the US) believes that Bush and his administration was behind the 9/11 attack. Apparently there are alot more like me than you thought? An am640 poll (local toronto radio station) had a response of 84% believing it was a false flag attack.

And if you're so rational explain why Bruce Ivins was so compelled to frame muslims for an anthrax attack after 9/11? Or why he wants to even frame muslims in the first place?

09-11-01

YOU CAN NOT STOP US.

WE HAVE ANTHRAX.

YOU DIE NOW.

ARE YOU AFRAID?

DEATH TO AMERICA.

DEATH TO ISRAEL.

ALLAH IS GREAT.

09-11-01

THIS IS NEXT

TAKE PENACILIN NOW

DEATH TO AMERICA

DEATH TO ISRAEL

ALLAH IS GREAT

Edited August 5, 2008 by obsidian

[bush_cheney2004]

It doesnt matter that more ppl were killed by aspirin BC. It matters that it was the US military was involved in fearmongering and the fact it occured right after 9/11 which lead to widespread fear and panic. Which lead to the patriot act among other things that destroy citizens rights and cause them to die(afghanistan, iraq). But of course none of that matters. To you it never will, that must suck robot. lol. you are a drone

Correct...nothing you have to say about it matters at all. And never will. A lot of things happened before and after 9/11.....so what? The narrow focus of your imagination and attention span doesn't equate to reality.

"Cause them to die".....LOL!

Hmmm....maybe the "Canadian military" was behind the SARs fiasco in Toronto !!!

Edited August 5, 2008 by bush_cheney2004