Tobacco Road

[kengs333]

For anyone interested, here is a link to the first of four articles about contraband cigarettes in Canada:

http://thespec.com/News/Discover/article/405455

[kengs333]

Oh, wow, doesn't this concern anybody? A massive amount of criminal activity is taking place, and nobody want to do anything about it.

[Oleg Bach]

Oh, wow, doesn't this concern anybody? A massive amount of criminal activity is taking place, and nobody want to do anything about it.

I want to know why I CAN NOT SELL NARCOTICS for huge profits? - but the government and their friends can...I can spend up to 300 dollars a month on their dope called nicotine..and what ever other addictive crap they put in them that is not on the banned list because the compounds to not have names...so how come? Is it because the big Mafia is that status quo and the little native mafia are the crimminals....."massive amount of crimminal activity" - give me a break...the feds and provincials still to not have the political or moral will to curb cocaine and crack use that is epidemic..but why would they stop the enthrawlment of millions - when all the cash goes eventually into THEIR banking system....I would like to be compensated for my life long tobacco addiction...I would say the feds owe me a million bucks by now.

PS..native cigarrettes have a poisonous level of potassium nitrate and taste like crap and make the poor ill....at least the gov smokes are tolerable.....BUT native packaging and the quality of the dope nicotine delivery system (cigarrettes) is imporving - at least the native charge 3 bucks a pack and the gov wants...10 plus a pack...at least the natives are not into the evil supply and demand BS>

[kengs333]

Interesting response. The government is in the business of regulating things like alcohol and tobacco because their usage is widespread and lucrative. I suppose that one day this could be extended to other substances as well. Whatever the case, the government has legal sanction to do so, and the people who produce contraband smokes are undermining our society in several ways, and that needs to be stopped.

[capricorn]

Oleg is right about the seemingly poor quality of tobacco used in contraband cigarettes. It's also safe to say that lower income Canadians are more likely to purchase cheap smokes if they're available to them. Who can blame them when the cost is a fraction of legally packaged cigarettes.

Government is so hypocritical. Taxes on cigarettes are raised on the pretext of doing so to discourage smokers and to address a health concern. The government's main concern in raising those taxes is to make up for lost revenue due to the declining number of smokers who buy legally packaged cigarettes.

The sharp decline of smokers is the result of successful anti-tobacco activism. Government has not since been able to overcome its addiction to the tax revenue and will continue to increase this sin tax. This will drive more smokers to seek out cheap tobacco and they will make do with lower quality.

The black market has a way of reaching its clientele and vice-versa. It's no different for contraband cigarettes.

[eyeball]

Interesting response. The government is in the business of regulating things like alcohol and tobacco because their usage is widespread and lucrative. I suppose that one day this could be extended to other substances as well. Whatever the case, the government has legal sanction to do so, and the people who produce contraband smokes are undermining our society in several ways, and that needs to be stopped.

The government doesn't have the moral or ethical background for the job and it only seems to inspire more contempt with each passing day no matter what it does. In any case, stopping contraband by going after the supply will always be an ass backwards way of doing things. So is imagining its the producer or supplier who is undermining society. The real culprit is the user. The demand is the cause, the supply is the effect.

I think it was some Fraser Institute wonk who said trying to repeal the law of supply and demand would be like trying to repeal the law of gravity. Its the most sensible thing I think I ever heard them say.

[charter.rights]

PS..native cigarrettes have a poisonous level of potassium nitrate and taste like crap and make the poor ill....at least the gov smokes are tolerable.....BUT native packaging and the quality of the dope nicotine delivery system (cigarrettes) is imporving - at least the native charge 3 bucks a pack and the gov wants...10 plus a pack...at least the natives are not into the evil supply and demand BS>

You've been caught by government propaganda. Native smokes do not contain ANY additives. On the other hand, the reason mainstream brands are smooth, mellow and flavourful is because major tobacco companies lace their tobacco with arsenic, ammonia, and proprietary nicotine enhancers. Raw tobacco is much more harsh than the stuff you buy.

Of course it is government propaganda that native smokes are contraband too. The reality is that the smokes and the manufacture by First Nations is perfectly legal and within their rights. Purchasing these smokes without paying the taxes is what has the government in a flap. So if anything is "illegal" it is the purchase by non-natives.

You'll also note that of all the cargo the RCMP have seized along this so-called tobacco alley, there have been few that have made it to trial. By the time it reaches the court the Crown either drops the charges or changes them to minor ones, thereby avoiding the constitutional challenges that would ensue if they followed up on the charges. The RCMP have been using the "organized crime" laws -originally intended to fight biker gangs - to stop vehicles, search and seize them without warrant, without reasonable cause and without affording the suspects their rights. Their whole goal is to confiscate the goods and by the time that the tobacco gets returned, it is stale and unsaleable. This abuse of law is just one more action of the police state we are heading towards.

BTW at $6 to $12 per bag of 200 (a carton equivalent) they are making approximately a 600% profit. Now figure out the revenues the government and big tobacco is reaping from all our addictions at more than $80 pert carton.......Once you have done that you'll easily see why the tobacco companies are pinching the government to take action.

Edited July 21, 2008 by charter.rights

[Wild Bill]

Oh, wow, doesn't this concern anybody? A massive amount of criminal activity is taking place, and nobody want to do anything about it.

That's simple! Governments don't want to pay the price of enforcing their laws.

What can they do? Blockade all the roads in and out of reserves and stop/search every car? Bust every blue-haired old bingo playing grandma for buying cheap smokes?

Do you really think the natives would just stand back and say "Oh well!"?

It's huge criminal money! It's all very well to point out that the crime is in non-natives buying contraband but not only do natives cheerfully sell to non-natives they would likely get EXTREMELY agitated if RCMP tried to stop non-natives from being able to buy from them!

Governments seem not to have learned from the last time this happened in the early 90's. Political hypocrits up the taxes and use saving our health as an excuse. Most smokers are well aware of this and have simply lost such respect for governments in this area that they no longer feel guilty about buying contraband. Who can blame them?

The article in the link cites the number of illegal smokes as 1 in 3. It's been my experience that such estimates are usually much lower than the real number.

I think it was around Mulroney's time when Canadians finally lost faith in "the System". Before that, for the most part we trusted the cops and courts, governments in general and paid our taxes, albeit grudgingly. Today, there have just been too many scandals of crooked cops, overly lenient judges, adscams and the like for anyone to have any guilt whatsoever about cheating on tax reporting and buying contraband.

I'm reminded of a similar situation in the late 70's and early 80's, with the explosion in popularity of pinball and video games. I worked in an electronic parts store and served many repairmen at our counter. They told me how anyone who wanted to buy a machine had to pay the "mob" to find them a location. They would come up with a variety store or bowling alley where you could drop your machine and you would pay them a monthly "rent".

The amazing thing was that nobody minded! The mob fee was reasonable and they always found you a lucrative location, that they protected in case someone else tried to "muscle in".

Meanwhile, all the government had done was to try to get everyone to install a coin counter so that they could ensure their own cut!

The feeling was that BOTH outfits were forcing a tax on you but that at least the MOB gave you something worthwhile for your money!

Once respect has been lost it can take a long time to earn it back. Governments today have nobody to blame but themselves for the present Canadian perception. So far none of them have shown much sign of doing anything to earn back respect but sanctimonious bleating about how smokers should not buy contraband that is more than a quantum level cheaper because it helps illegal folks is not going to cut it.

[eyeball]

The amazing thing was that nobody minded! The mob fee was reasonable and they always found you a lucrative location, that they protected in case someone else tried to "muscle in".

Meanwhile, all the government had done was to try to get everyone to install a coin counter so that they could ensure their own cut!

The feeling was that BOTH outfits were forcing a tax on you but that at least the MOB gave you something worthwhile for your money!

Stands to reason. Everyone knows the private sector provides better service that's cheaper and more efficient.

[Visionseeker]

Interesting response. The government is in the business of regulating things like alcohol and tobacco because their usage is widespread and lucrative. I suppose that one day this could be extended to other substances as well.

Like carbon?

[madmax]

Like carbon?

And internet downloads. Which they have been studying.

[Smallc]

Like carbon?

Yes, the building block of all life should be controlled because its a bad thing.