Quebec group requests French citizenship

[whowhere]

Cartier's writings tell a classic story on how linguistic exchanges occur between two groups of people with different languages who have never met. Reminds me of the way parents teach language to their children by showing an object and naming it, or the way they teach a writing system by showing an image and thw written word, or the use of images in teaching a second language.

Cartier being of Christiandom and the Torah/Bible program outlined God scattered man to all corners of the earth. (That what it says, true or not, I do not know) God confounded the language of men so they would have different languages. Cartier operated off of his own soul and the language of France. Cartier was not a mind reader. He was required to use his mind/soul to interpret and create an understanding of the Aboriginals. Sorry pal, but that was the program of the day.

I know you want to rewrite history and religion for your own ends but until you come out with supporting documents equal to those of the courts of France in the 1600's, The documents of George Washington acrchived on line at the library of Congress, and the Torah/Bible/Koran you will have little succes in swaying the minds of those who in a 1000 years into the future will logically evaluate Religion and historical events to draw acute conclusions.

The torah/bible/koran can be viewed as a branch on huge tree we call life. There are other branches on this tree, Hindu, budism, No religions, Science, etc which one you gravitate towards is your choice. That is our modern culture. However, that is not or was the programing of Cartier and those of original European settlers. It is your choice to jump branches and believe what you want, but understand you are either with God or you are of the other Branches.

If you are of the other Branches, This how God will look upon you,

Numbers 21:31

31 Thus Isreal dwelt in the land of the Amorites

32 And Moses sent to spy out Jaazer, and they took the villages thereof, and drove out the Amorites that were there

33 And they turned and went up by the way of Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan went out against them, he, and all his people, to the battle of Edei.

34 And the Lord said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do ot him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.

35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

Fact is, when God scattered man, man became dispensible. You are of no value to God. For what the spanish did to the aboriginals of South America in the name of Christianity attest to this way of thinking. So choose your branch.

[seabee]

The second anyone mixes history and religion, then he looses all credibility. I know; God told me so!

[CANADIEN]

Cartier was not a mind reader.

No one claims that.

He was required to use his mind/soul to interpret and create an understanding of the Aboriginals. Sorry pal, but that was the program of the day.

Which is why, AS HE SAID HIMSELF, he recorded the words he heard the Iroquians of Stadacone use to describe things as diverse as body parts, animals and village, among other things. And I, as well as linguists and historians for most of the part 400 years, have said that's what he did, because he himself said that's what he did. That you say one of the words he wrote down didn't come from the Iroquoian's language WHEN HIMSELF SAID IT CAME FROM IT, then use the fact Jacques Cartier had religious motivations as if it were some sort of a "proof" of your original claim proves one thing - your complete misunderstanding of history, linguistics, the English language and simple logic.

I know you want to rewrite history and religion for your own ends(...)

You "know" things that exist only in your feeble mind.

(...) but until you come out with supporting documents equal to those of the courts of France in the 1600's, (...)

I have the writings from Jacques Cartier from the 1500's, in which he says where the word Canada came from. As you admit yourself that Jacques Cartier was the first one to put the word in a written form, logic dictates that you admit that there is there no better source than his own writings about where he tok the word from.

(...)The documents of George Washington acrchived on line at the library of Congress, and the Torah/Bible/Koran 9...)

Show me a 17th document from the French court stating that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada". Show me a document written by the hand of George Washington stating that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada". Show me a passage of the Bible stating that jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada".

(...)you will have little succes in swaying the minds of those who in a 1000 years into the future will logically evaluate Religion and historical events to draw acute conclusions.

which conclusion will be that Cartier wrote what he wrote.

The torah/bible/koran can be viewed as a branch on huge tree we call life. There are other branches on this tree, Hindu, budism, No religions, Science, etc which one you gravitate towards is your choice. That is our modern culture. However, that is not or was the programing of Cartier and those of original European settlers. It is your choice to jump branches and believe what you want, but understand you are either with God or you are of the other Branches.

If you are of the other Branches, This how God will look upon you,

Numbers 21:31

31 Thus Isreal dwelt in the land of the Amorites

32 And Moses sent to spy out Jaazer, and they took the villages thereof, and drove out the Amorites that were there

33 And they turned and went up by the way of Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan went out against them, he, and all his people, to the battle of Edei.

34 And the Lord said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do ot him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon.

35 So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

Fact is, when God scattered man, man became dispensible. You are of no value to God. For what the spanish did to the aboriginals of South America in the name of Christianity attest to this way of thinking. So choose your branch.

If there is anything in the Bible, the writings of the Fathers of the Church, theological writings, papal texts, Canon Law, liturgical texts, or any text of a theological, doctrinal or liturgical nature of any Christian confession that states that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada", show it. Until then, spare yourself the humiliation and stop blaspheming that it is against God to quote Jacques Cartier's own writing as a proof that he wrote what he wrote.

Edited July 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

The second anyone mixes history and religion, then he looses all credibility. I know; God told me so!

Mxing history and religion is not necessarily a bad thing... Nor is acknowledging that some of history's actors had religious motivations. It becomes a problem when someone misuses religions in trying to disprove a fact proven by history and logic... when someone writes something, he writes it.

[blueblood]

And pray tell, how am I defending Bill 101? By calling it again and again a pile of m*nure?

The 18th century was three centuries ago, deal with it.

Your defending the people that support that bill, when they elected politicians that put it in. Funny they seem to attack the US for being a totalitarian state when in Quebec they don't have nearly the same degree of freedom of expression as the americans do.

What's to deal with, my side won. Tell that to Duceppe and the BQ and PQ.

Edited July 22, 2008 by blueblood

[whowhere]

No one claims that.

Which is why, AS HE SAID HIMSELF, he recorded the words he heard the Iroquians of Stadacone use to describe things as diverse as body parts, animals and village, among other things. And I, as well as linguists and historians for most of the part 400 years, have said that's what he did, because he himself said that's what he did. That you say one of the words he wrote down didn't come from the Iroquoian's language WHEN HIMSELF SAID IT CAME FROM IT, then use the fact Jacques Cartier had religious motivations as if it were some sort of a "proof" of your original claim proves one thing - your complete misunderstanding of history, linguistics, the English language and simple logic.

You "know" things that exist only in your feeble mind.

I have the writings from Jacques Cartier from the 1500's, in which he says where the word Canada came from. As you admit yourself that Jacques Cartier was the first one to put the word in a written form, logic dictates that you admit that there is there no better source than his own writings about where he tok the word from.

Show me a 17th document from the French court stating that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada". Show me a document written by the hand of George Washington stating that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada". Show me a passage of the Bible stating that jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada".

which conclusion will be that Cartier wrote what he wrote.

If there is anything in the Bible, the writings of the Fathers of the Church, theological writings, papal texts, Canon Law, liturgical texts, or any text of a theological, doctrinal or liturgical nature of any Christian confession that states that Jacques Cartier didn't write "Ils appellent une ville Canada", show it. Until then, spare yourself the humiliation and stop blaspheming that it is against God to quote Jacques Cartier's own writing as a proof that he wrote what he wrote.

Give this forum a break. The aboriginals had their own language. Cartier had his language. To bridge the worlds he used his language skills and soul/mind to bring parallels between the two. All you are doing is quoting a French phrase "Ils appellent une ville Canada." I see no aboriginal words or symbols. All I see is cartier using his soul/mind to interpret/understand the aboriginals language with the French language. You have failed to produce words from the aboriginal language to support your assertions.

The fact is, The aboriginals are lucky it was the French and not the spanish who settled Canada. If it were, I doubt they would be around to whine about their existence. Do you think God would have held it against the French or Spanish if they wiped out the aboriginals. Maybe, but I doubt it.

If you are aboriginal, be happy you are around, and be happy with what you have. It is obvious you got off lucky.

If you want to be history a revisionist and religion revisionist at your expense, keep going. At canada's root is Chritiandom, like it or not.

[seabee]

Mxing history and religion is not necessarily a bad thing...

I don't totally disagree; but I would rather say mixing history an religious history. A subtle difference, I agree, but nevertheless a significant one. However quoting a religious book as if it were another evidence for a given fact crosses the thin line.

[CANADIEN]

I don't have a problem, when the religious text actually mentions a given historical, or contains information that can be used to understand a certain past event on how people reacted to it. For example, Jewish religious texts are important in understanding how the Jewish people has historically and even today viewed itself.

I draw the line at the use of religious texts as an evidence of a faulty interpretation of a past event they did not even address.

Edited July 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

To go back briefly to the original issue. I am glad the French Government has confirmed what I have known all along... I am not French

Edited July 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Your defending the people that support that bill, when they elected politicians that put it in.

Once again, quote any claim I have made that I favour Quebec's language legislation. The fact that I know Quebecers are Canadians does not mean that I approve laws I consider to be against basic rights. If you lack the capacity to make the distinction, too bad for you.

What's to deal with.

The fact that the Battle of the Plains of Abraham was 249 years ago, and that your little school yard bully "we've won, so we can do whatever we want to you" act does not belong in the 21th century.

[CANADIEN]

Give this forum a break.

Good suggestion, follow it.

The aboriginals had their own language.

I thought they didn't even have words.

You have failed to produce words from the aboriginal language to support your assertions.

Jacques Cartier produced the words when, by you own admission, he used a feature of the French language (an alphabet) to transcribe them. Do yourself a favor and drop the non-sense that because he wrote down the words he heard they were not aboriginal words to start with. It's almost as ridiculous as the "they didn't have an alphabet, how could they have words to start with''.

Edited July 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

The fact is, The aboriginals are lucky it was the French and not the spanish who settled Canada. If it were, I doubt they would be around to whine about their existence. Do you think God would have held it against the French or Spanish if they wiped out the aboriginals. Maybe, but I doubt it.

If you are aboriginal, be happy you are around, and be happy with what you have. It is obvious you got off lucky.

I have seen my share of racist statements about Aboriginals, but to write that God would have been OK with genocide is by far the worse to date, and blaspheemous to boot. What's next, God held a party when he welcomed Hitler to Heaven's?

I was so sadly mistaken about you. I thought you were merely an igonrant little man without the capacity to read or to think logically. I see now you are also a racist and a borderline religous fanatic.

[whowhere]

I have seen my share of racist statements about Aboriginals, but to write that God would have been OK with genocide is by far the worse to date, and blaspheemous to boot. What's next, God held a party when he welcomed Hitler to Heaven's?

I was so sadly mistaken about you. I thought you were merely an igonrant little man without the capacity to read or to think logically. I see now you are also a racist and a borderline religous fanatic.

you are going to cry because this God would have wiped the earth with your ass and blot you out from existence as if you were yesterday's garbage.

If your faith and works in christ is strong I am sure you will be remembered in the book of life. That's the god conundrum. God is actually relevant when you are going to use modern day aboriginal sympathy to bastardize historical acts when those in the drama were greatly influenced by the religious forces of the day. In cartier's case: Chritianity.

Admit to this forum that you believe the torah/bible to be a work of fiction. If you won't, I suggest you digest numbers 21:35

So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

Genocide right?

[CANADIEN]

you are going to cry because this God would have wiped the earth with your ass and blot you out from existence as if you were yesterday's garbage.

If your faith and works in christ is strong I am sure you will be remembered in the book of life. That's the god conundrum. God is actually relevant when you are going to use modern day aboriginal sympathy to bastardize historical acts when those in the drama were greatly influenced by the religious forces of the day. In cartier's case: Chritianity.

Admit to this forum that you believe the torah/bible to be a work of fiction. If you won't, I suggest you digest numbers 21:35

So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land.

Genocide right?

God knows what I believe in, and we all know what YOU believe in,,, let's read it again:

Do you think God would have held it against the French or Spanish if they wiped out the aboriginals. Maybe, but I doubt it.

There is one word for the wiping out of entire societies by another one: genocide. Everyone knows it.

When you want to make a fool of yourself again by denying the historical facts as written by Jacques Cartier, I will repeat his words because there is no need for anything else and in any case those who can think already got it while you won't.

When you want to misuse God's word again, I will repeat your words because there is no need for anything else to remind you I know what your belief really is.

Edited July 22, 2008 by CANADIEN

[AngusThermopyle]

Admit to this forum that you believe the torah/bible to be a work of fiction.

I'll admit it, no problem.

You do provide a graphic example of the type of thinking religious beliefs can produce in some people.

[g_bambino]

England is [a] foreign country.

Okay, so you admit English is a foreign language then. With French already classified by you as also foreign, what, then, is Canada's native tongue? One of the multitude of First Nations and Inuit languages?

[g_bambino]

Oh, its bambino's story telling time again.

Do you have any particular evidence that proves me wrong? I'll break down what's required of you to help you out (as you need as much help as you can get):

1) Prove that the patriation of the constitution was done in a period of governmental crisis. To do so, you may want to:

a) Prove that more provincial governments that just the one for Quebec were opposed to the move.

Prove that the Prime Minister was acting beyond his limits

c) Prove that the Prime Minister did not have the confidence of the House of Commons

d) Prove that the British parliament passed the Canada Act without Canada's request

2) If none of the above can be proven, state why the Queen should act against her Prime Minister's advice without conventional cause

3) Prove that other parts of the constitution have "benefitted" (as in, allowed for special treatment above and beyond what the other members of Confederation are accorded) Quebec since 1982.

Time starts... now.

Edited July 22, 2008 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

People are ackonwledged to be racists for less than that.

Oh, Leafless has already acknowledged that he's racist. (Not that the French are a race, mind you...)

[M.Dancer]

Cartier being of Christiandom and the Torah/Bible program outlined God scattered man to all corners of the earth. (That what it says, true or not, I do not know) God confounded the language of men so they would have different languages. Cartier operated off of his own soul and the language of France. Cartier was not a mind reader. He was required to use his mind/soul to interpret and create an understanding of the Aboriginals. Sorry pal, but that was the program of the day.

If english isn't your first language could you perhaps write also in your first language so that we might make heads or tails of what you are stuggling to say.

If english is your first langauge then I will back away slowly, hands visable and comment softlyon the clour of the flowers outside.

[whowhere]

If english isn't your first language could you perhaps write also in your first language so that we might make heads or tails of what you are stuggling to say.

If english is your first langauge then I will back away slowly, hands visable and comment softlyon the clour of the flowers outside.

Once again dumcer posts with nothing to contribute. If Canadien wants to revise history without taking in the religious implications of his propoganda, his revisions would not be accurate. He tries to rally support projecting the aboriginals own's the words expressed by Cartier. That is flat out ridiculous.

It's unfortunate we have modern day aboriginal's heads being filled with nonsense of entitlement. To further this we have panderers who want to project on Canada what their sense of what is right and wrong without taking in the historical/religious implications.

The bible has some good stuff when it comes to wiping the land of people so the chosen can possess it. Considering Christian history is filled with these kinds of crusades, we have reality mirroring the bible. It is quite obvious, Canadien has an aboriginal bias. This is because he is one or he is simply a history revisionist.

He needs to accept the facts. At least the French worked with the Indians and not wiped them out. On that, I said the aboriginals ought to be happy.

[CANADIEN]

If english isn't your first language could you perhaps write also in your first language so that we might make heads or tails of what you are stuggling to say.

If english is your first langauge then I will back away slowly, hands visable and comment softlyon the clour of the flowers outside.

Please. Do not ever make that request again. It is bad enough he writes his absurdities in one language.

[CANADIEN]

Once again dumcer posts with nothing to contribute. If Canadien wants to revise history without taking in the religious implications of his propoganda, his revisions would not be accurate. He tries to rally support projecting the aboriginals own's the words expressed by Cartier. That is flat out ridiculous.

It's unfortunate we have modern day aboriginal's heads being filled with nonsense of entitlement. To further this we have panderers who want to project on Canada what their sense of what is right and wrong without taking in the historical/religious implications.

The bible has some good stuff when it comes to wiping the land of people so the chosen can possess it. Considering Christian history is filled with these kinds of crusades, we have reality mirroring the bible. It is quite obvious, Canadien has an aboriginal bias. This is because he is one or he is simply a history revisionist.

He needs to accept the facts. At least the French worked with the Indians and not wiped them out. On that, I said the aboriginals ought to be happy.

You know the difference within you and people who believe that Earth is flat? The Bible is somewhat relevant to their drivel, unlike yours.

I'm surprised you haven't thrown a kitchen sink yet, or flying saucers and time travel. After all the stupidity you have written, it would almost sound intelligent.

I'm through with arguing facts with you. Feel free to keep posting the same drivel. Or even to claim victory. You will just be providing people with additional reasons to laugh at you.

When there is another topic you want to write nonsense about, let me know. Maybe then I'll waste my time with you again.

[whowhere]

I'm through with arguing facts with you. Feel free to keep posting the same drivel. Or even to claim victory. You will just be providing people with additional reasons to laugh at you.

Your only fact was what Jaque Cartiers wrote in a book. You quoted a french phrase with the French/English alphabet. Rather that restate what has already been stated, Accept the facts as they are. If some want to laugh, then laugh. Whatever, keeps them going.

[M.Dancer]

Your only fact was what Jaque Cartiers wrote in a book. You quoted a french phrase with the French/English alphabet. Rather that restate what has already been stated, Accept the facts as they are. If some want to laugh, then laugh. Whatever, keeps them going.

Does that mean you accept the fact that your facts concerning population were wrong? Or will you argue that you, the only one in the world that does not believe the root of the word Canada is from a native language and every historian and linguist is simply wrong?

[CANADIEN]

Does that mean you accept the fact that your facts concerning population were wrong? Or will you argue that you, the only one in the world that does not believe the root of the word Canada is from a native language and every historian and linguist is simply wrong?

I should n't, I can't... AARRRGHHHHH no, the temptation is too great.

Repent you sinner. You are opposing Heaven's envoy.