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Boy forced to undergo chemotherapy


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remainder of quote deleted for nonsense content)

No, remainder of quote deleted because you have no answer.

Thank you, even though you don't have the integrity to answer anything or provide facts your childish response once again merely served to affirm what was said. So very very predictable.

As usual no sources, no figures to back you up. Just denial and the repetition of the same racist bullshit you always spout.

As a side note. Its interesting to see that this child is no more to you than a chance to further your agenda. In my opinion this childs wellfaire far outstrips the importance (or lack thereof) of your agenda.

Oh yes. You're the one who claims alternative cures for cancer, don't tell me to do the research. You made the claim, now back it up if you can. Nah, that would be too hard, just tell some more lies instead.

Edited by AngusThermopyle
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As usual no sources, no figures to back you up.

(remainder of quote deleted as nonsense.)

Oh yes. You're the one who claims alternative cures for cancer, don't tell me to do the research. You made the claim, now back it up if you can. Nah, that would be too hard, just tell some more lies instead.

Go read a newspaper. It is all there. I realize you are lazy and want people to spoon feed you (like they do in the Armed Forces) but as an adult you really must stand on your own two feet, or get out of the parade.

Edited by charter.rights
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Go read a newspaper. It is all there. I realize you are lazy and want people to spoon feed you (like they do in the Armed Forces) but as an adult you really must stand on your own two feet, or get out of the parade.

A pretty transparent attempt to deflect from the fact that you've been exposed for the fraud you are. So if its all there then provide links. The onus is on you, not I. I'm simply asking you to provide proof of your allegations, which you refuse to do.

Show us it was illegal. Show us its racially based. Show us how CAS would'nt have done the same if it were a white familly. Show us these amazing alternate cures. Convince us this boy is not merely a pawn to your agenda.

You cant, all you can do is try to deflect with your childish insults. You've got nothing, a fact you continually reinforce with your non responses.

Soooo predictable.

You're right though, I sure am lazy working those 12 hour days six days a week.

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A pretty transparent attempt to deflect from the fact that you've been exposed for the fraud you are. So if its all there then provide links. The onus is on you, not I. I'm simply asking you to provide proof of your allegations, which you refuse to do.

Show us it was illegal. Show us its racially based. Show us how CAS would'nt have done the same if it were a white familly. Show us these amazing alternate cures. Convince us this boy is not merely a pawn to your agenda.

You cant, all you can do is try to deflect with your childish insults. You've got nothing, a fact you continually reinforce with your non responses.

Soooo predictable.

You're right though, I sure am lazy working those 12 hour days six days a week.

WOT? You call posting on internet discussion boards 12 hours a day, a "job"? ROTFLMAO@YOU!

Read a paper grunt boy.

Sick boy seized to force chemo treatments

"The father says the CAS did not have a court order and as of Thursday evening, the family still had not seen one."

On CH Live, the father said he was able only to say to his son "I love you" in Mohawk before he was evicted from the hospital.

Family of cancer-stricken boy fight to regain custody

"HAMILTON, Ont. - The parents of an 11-year-old boy forced by the Children's Aid Society to undergo cancer treatment are scheduled to appear before a judge this afternoon to fight their case."

Their first custody hearing goes on today. Neither the parents, nor a trustee for the boy were ever challenged before hand. The CAS committed a crime. against a Mohawk family and their son.

You are so predictable. If you had read a newspaper like I suggested you might have caught on instead of looking like a ass like you are now.

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Read a paper grunt boy.

Learn to read.

You have no shame do you. But then trolls never do.

Is the boy alive? Why yes he is.

So much for genocide.

But very good for trying to further your agenda. You dont care about the boy, not one whit, you just want to use him.

Just wait until the poor boy dies, then you can have a field day.

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The parents did NOT refuse treatment. They refused chemo-therapy as the treatment. There are other less intrusive treatments, less aggressive but a treatment none-the-less.

A treatment which will not affect the outcome in any way is no 'treatment'. The parents were using things like Oregano and Green tea. That's an italian dinner, not a medical treatment.

Oh yes. You're the one who claims alternative cures for cancer, don't tell me to do the research. You made the claim, now back it up if you can.

Go read a newspaper. It is all there.

First of all, those who make the claim are generally expected to provide the evidence.

Hey, did you hear Stephan Dion is actually a 2 headed alien from Mars? Hey, its been proven. Its in the papers. Go look it up. And if you can't find it, its because you haven't looked hard enough. Fair enough?

Secondly, when you are dealing with actual science, then a newspaper is not the best source. Nor are anecdotes. In order to determine whether any sort of 'alternative' treatment is effective, you need a peer-reviewed study, published in a reputable journal. Anything else is on the level of "I saw Elvis and Bigfoot at the local Wal-Mart".

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Learn to read.

You have no shame do you. But then trolls never do.

Is the boy alive? Why yes he is.

So much for genocide.

But very good for trying to further your agenda. You dont care about the boy, not one whit, you just want to use him.

Just wait until the poor boy dies, then you can have a field day.

The UN definition of genocide includes the removal of children from one group to another group. The reasons are irrelevent when the underlying impetus is assimilation. Stealing kids from native families is a common tactic.

You don't care about the boy either since it really has nothing to do with you and any empathy is based on a false sense that you are connected to him because of a newspaper article. You have no clue who he is or what his problem is beyond what you have lazily scooped from the internet. At least I have enough compassion to learn about his whole story and not just some myopic view that is full of denial.

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A treatment which will not affect the outcome in any way is no 'treatment'. The parents were using things like Oregano and Green tea. That's an italian dinner, not a medical treatment.

Go read a newspaper. It is all there.

(remainder of the quote removed as nonsense)

Maybe you should get an education. Here's a good start: Alternative Cancer Treatments

Herbal and natural medicine is not a witch doctor craft. It is a comparable and medically pertinent science.

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Guest American Woman
It's easy to talk about chemo until you've gone through it or had someone close go through it. My mom went through chemo and radiation and flatly said she would rather die than do it again. It drastically wasted her body. She could hardly eat during and for months after, her stomach cramping sometimes violently with diarreha or vomit the result. Huge chunks of dead skin came off her body when she tried to soak in the tub. She would cry and moan sometimes at night. It was hell. After it was done she still couldn't eat with out sometimes violent results, and her body will never be the same.

To top it off, some of the medical staff who administered her treatments were very callous. Berating her and lecturing her if she couldn't sit entirely still because of the pain while they treated her. So it's easy to sit from afar in an office somewhere and decree that such and such a family shall have their child seized, and such child will be given chemo again, but the family, who has seen the disease come back after advised the child was healthy is right to be hesitant.

First of all, I'm sorry for what your mom had to go through. As for the medical staff, there's no excuse for their behavior.

That being said, the treatment did save her life. She says she'd rather die than go through it again, but if push came to shove, it's hard to say what she'd decide; but at least she is capable of making that decision. The boy in question is not capable and the father is basing his decision on the boy's decision. Furthermore, at only eleven, this boy has a lot of life left in him. I'm guessing that if he survives, he's going to someday be very thankful that the had the treatment.

As for your claim that it's "easy" for us to talk about this...., I'm not sure where that is coming from. I don't think anyone, regardless of their feelings, takes the boy's pain lightly; it's definitely not "easy" to make a decision that causes a child pain.

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An update on this story for those interested:

An 11-year-old leukemia patient who was seized by the Children's Aid Society and forced to undergo chemotherapy will be allowed to return home to his family in an agreement struck Tuesday.

Under the agreement, the child will be allowed to return to his father's home under CAS supervision after he's done his current round of cancer treatment. The father has agreed to return with the boy for more medical treatment.

link

At least he will be able to spend this time with his family.

I just hope that after having to go through all of this, that this boy makes it. It would be a shame if it were all for nothing.

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As someone that has had a spouse that went with chemo twice and radiation once, every cancer is different, every person's reaction to the chemo and radiation is different,but usually a younger person has a better chance of survivial than someone older. You can only take radiation treatments once because of the damage it does to your body and chemo destroys good and bad cells, so the more you have chemo the more you are destroying the good. Older people can't survive cancer and chemo because they bodies can't make new cells fast enough to replace the ones destroyed and as the our doctor said, the more you take the treatments, the less they will work killing the cancer.

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I just hope that after having to go through all of this, that this boy makes it. It would be a shame if it were all for nothing.

Agreed. 11 year old , be strong young man.

Poor charter rights, he must be gnashing his teeth that the CAS returned the boy from genocide.

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I can't believe how many here support the State.

Unflippenbelievable...

There is far more to this case than meets the eye. It is about rights - the rights of parents, the rights of the sick and dying.

The government needs to learn to butt out of our lives - I personally have NO desire to live in a Nanny state.

Next they will be telling everyone when to take their meds and do their morning exercises.

This is wrong on SO many levels. It doesn't matter whether I agree with the father's decision or not - this sets a very DANGEROUS precident - and NOT a good one.

Give me Liberty, thank you.

Government: BACK OFF

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I can't believe how many here support the State.

Government: BACK OFF

Finally these people are coming around to my position on prohibition.

I agree 100% that the government has no right over a grown adult's body. If an adult wants to abort a fetus in her body, that's her choice. If she wants to take illicit drugs, that's her choice. And if she wants to refuse chemo, that too is her choice.

But parents don't have the right to force a teenage girl to have an abortion she doesn't want. They don't have the right to give their children illicit drugs. And they don't have the right to refuse life-saving treatment for their children.

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this sets a very DANGEROUS precident - and NOT a good one.

No precedent here Buffy, this has been done before when the childs welfaire is judged to be at risk, with white kids as well, not just Aboriginals. Personally I support them in this move, many times parents just don't have either the knowledge or perspective to make the right decision in such complex matters.

As for Charters claim of Genocide by assimilation. Obviously this case had nothing at all to do with assimilation, just the boys health.

I guess the next claim will be that we are killing them with kindness.

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I can't believe how many here support the State.

Unflippenbelievable...

There is far more to this case than meets the eye. It is about rights - the rights of parents, the rights of the sick and dying.

The government needs to learn to butt out of our lives - I personally have NO desire to live in a Nanny state.

Next they will be telling everyone when to take their meds and do their morning exercises.

This is wrong on SO many levels. It doesn't matter whether I agree with the father's decision or not - this sets a very DANGEROUS precident - and NOT a good one.

Give me Liberty, thank you.

Government: BACK OFF

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

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Finally these people are coming around to my position on prohibition.

I agree 100% that the government has no right over a grown adult's body. If an adult wants to abort a fetus in her body, that's her choice. If she wants to take illicit drugs, that's her choice. And if she wants to refuse chemo, that too is her choice.

But parents don't have the right to force a teenage girl to have an abortion she doesn't want. They don't have the right to give their children illicit drugs. And they don't have the right to refuse life-saving treatment for their children.

I see your point.

But - but but - what would the chances be for this child using alternative cures? Really? If it's 50-80% (the odds I've seen quoted here wrt traditional chemo) then why should the state intervene??

This is something that isn't mentioned. Which is relevant for sure.

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I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Thanks, I just don't like the idea of the government telling me or my loved ones how we should deal with terminal illnesses - and lets face it - leukemia never leaves a person whole - it tends to always come back.

Why not invest and learn about alternative cures? Natural remedies? Really? Why isn't this discussed?

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No precedent here Buffy, this has been done before when the childs welfaire is judged to be at risk, with white kids as well, not just Aboriginals. Personally I support them in this move, many times parents just don't have either the knowledge or perspective to make the right decision in such complex matters.

As for Charters claim of Genocide by assimilation. Obviously this case had nothing at all to do with assimilation, just the boys health.

I guess the next claim will be that we are killing them with kindness.

Hi Angus, thanks for 'precedent' - I get that one mixed up sometimes! ;)

I still am queasy about this - the ethnicity of the child bearing NO impact on my 'queasiness'.

I really don't like the idea of the State intervening in peoples' lives. It's not their business. And as I stated in another post - what are the success rates for the alternative cures that the father and son were investigating... why isn't this mentioned?

How and why did the kid get luekemia to begin with? Where is their reserve located? How clean is it? So many questions.

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I've been following the story and I'm of a mixed mind.

I think adults have the right to refuse treatment or choose treatment.

Children need to be treated differently. In the vast majority of cases, the parent's wishes should be abided by. However, when the chances of recovery are strong, the medical community has to weigh in.

There will always be controversy about this, especially when the state takes the medical community's position on treatment. However, if there is a hands off approach, there will be just as much controversy and perhaps more.

I judge this by whether the medical community is causing needless suffering when recovery seems futile. I judge this by whether the family is letting a child go because of their religious, social or personal beliefs rather than what is medically possible in terms of recovery.

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Guest American Woman
- and lets face it - leukemia never leaves a person whole - it tends to always come back.

Where are you getting that from? :blink: As I already posted, with a link to back it up, the 5-year survival rate for ALL in children (the type of leukemia this boy has) is 85%. Furthermore, a remission that lasts for more than five years after the treatment suggests a complete recovery. If it 'always came back,' the survival rate would be very low, not 85%.

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Where are you getting that from? :blink: As I already posted, with a link to back it up, the 5-year survival rate for ALL in children (the type of leukemia this boy has) is 85%. Furthermore, a remission that lasts for more than five years after the treatment suggests a complete recovery. If it 'always came back,' the survival rate would be very low, not 85%.

No it wouldn't.

Studies, such as the one you cited only show what happens up to five years - that 85% have survived the chemo and are still alive. However, it drops off after that - because 'remission' is NOT cured.

How long would the person have had without any 'chemo'?

How long would the person have with alternative treatments?

If they are both five years (often this is the case) what is the difference?

I have stood alongside people dying of cancer - my cousin died of leukemia, my mother of pancreatic cancer. Treatment for these ailments should be up to the family and the individual involved.

If the State has the right to take a child for this - what is to prevent them from making it manditory for children to be vaccinated? Or treated in 'other ways' such as ritalin or 'other mood enhancing' drugs?

I think YOU are missing a big point here AW.

IOW - it's not about the Cancer - its about individual freedom of choice.

Edited by buffycat
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I see your point.

But - but but - what would the chances be for this child using alternative cures? Really? If it's 50-80% (the odds I've seen quoted here wrt traditional chemo) then why should the state intervene??

This is something that isn't mentioned. Which is relevant for sure.

There was a lady on CHCH TV at 5:30 that was in the exact position as this family, three years ago. She wanted to use natural medicines in addition to chemo, since chemo essentially destroys the body's immune system and then starts to eat away at organs, skin etc. The doctors at McMaster threatened her with taking her daughter away if she interfered in anyway with their treatment. The one difference here is that she was able to quickly transfer her daughter from McMaster to Sick Kids in Toronto. The doctors there encouraged her to use herbal medicines (prescribed by a naturopath) as a counter to the effects of chemotherapy. Her daughter survived.

When asked if she thought that the chemo helped her daughter survive, her answer was a flat "no!" She said that most people die from the effects of chemo, not from the the leukemia during the treatment stage and she believed that the herbal medicines had more to do with the recovery, than the chemical cocktails forced into her daughter's system. One must understand in any of this that chemo-therapy is not a precise medical cure. It is tantamount to throwing a lake at a campfire to try to extinguish it. Doctors are not gods and their medical knowledge is not divine intervention. Other treatments have been equally effective against various cancers, only they don't put the people through hell to obtain their success. John Hopkins University Hospital has often challenged the myopic thinking of stubborn doctors.

Edited by charter.rights
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I certainly understand the point you are making, however some woman on TV is hardly an educated counter to the accumulated knowledge of the world wide medical community.

For instance, how much of the process of cellular fusion and conjugation did this woman understand (actually, cellular conjugation occurs only in bacteria but does help illustrate the exchage of genetic material in cellular replication)? To state that the cure kills is an emotional response to a complex issue. Given that what she says is actually factual the implication would be that the cure kills and cancer saves.

Herbal treatments may offer an effect that offsets the negative effects of treatment but hard proven evidence that it is of itself a cure is just not present. In other words, herbal treatments may help but are not confirmed as a cure. I would certainly place more stock in what the medical community says than an unidentified woman on TV offering up her untrained opinion.

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