Israel needs to get its act together

[HisSelf]

Looks like the Yanks are going to elect Obama and Obama has said he wants to talk to Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. The Chinese Wall that the neocons have built up over so many years is tumbling down...

Israel is no longer the pretty girl at the ball.

Of course. there is always the possibility of voting irregularities...

Edited May 9, 2008 by HisSelf

[buffycat]

Looks like the Yanks are going to elect Obama and Obama has said he wants to talk to Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. The Chinese Wall that the neocons have built up over so many years is tumbling down...

Israel is no longer the pretty girl at the ball.

I don't think any country should be any other's 'pretty girl. IMO national soveriegnty trumps all. But anyway - I certainly agree.

Did you happen to catch this piece in the Washington Post of all places:

5 Myths About Being 'Pro-Israel'

here is #4:

4. Talking peace with your enemies demonstrates weakness.

You don't need an advanced degree in international relations to recognize that pursuing peace only with people you like is pointless. Most Israelis know this; a recent poll in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz found that two-thirds of Israelis favor cease-fire negotiations between their government and Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist movement that controls the Gaza Strip, exactly because Hamas is such a bitter foe. But in Washington, we self-righteously refuse to engage -- even indirectly -- with Hamas, Iran or Syria.

Hamas won the most recent Palestinian national elections in a landslide. Do we seriously think that it can be erased from the political landscape simply by assassinations and sanctions? Precisely because Hamas and Iran represent the most worrisome strategic challenges to Israel, responsible friends of Israel who'd like to see it live in security for its next 60 years should be engaging with them to search for alternatives to war.

Of course. there is always the possibility of voting irregularities...

Indeed...

Miscount? What miscount?!

don't worry - there's NO paper trail!!!

[HisSelf]

There is such a huge wall of BS that Israel has built up through the US media, that nothing surprises me any more.

[M.Dancer]

suckers......Obama has as much chance of winning the Presidency as me. Even so if once elected he would be instructed as to whats what and the empty vacuous promises of an election would come to fruition....

Your hate on for Israel will have to wait...

[sharkman]

There is such a huge wall of BS that Israel has built up through the US media, that nothing surprises me any more.

Yeah, wait and see who wins the US election, smart guy. I see the Buffster is already preparing for defeat with claims of, "We wuz robbed!"

[HisSelf]

Ha ha. America is watching its economy go down the tubes and you think the only thing voters want is nation-building in Iraq and Afghjastlystan. Get a clue.

[BC_chick]

suckers......Obama has as much chance of winning the Presidency as me.

With Hillary as his VP, McCain's as good as gone.... Mr. President.

[White Doors]

Ha ha. America is watching its economy go down the tubes and you think the only thing voters want is nation-building in Iraq and Afghjastlystan. Get a clue.

Their economy is going down the tubes? really?

Who knew?

[M.Dancer]

With Hillary as his VP, McCain's as good as gone.... Mr. President.

There is as muchg chance of a Obama Clinton ticket as McCain adding Ron Paul to his.

[Avatar]

Their economy is going down the tubes? really?

Who knew?

Who didn't?

[White Doors]

Who didn't?

I guess me. And I guess it would depend on what you define 'going down the tubes' as...

It is in my opinion that it has gone through a mild correction and that the worst is past us now.

Maybe that's what people think of as 'going down the tubes'?

i don't, but I can't be sure what others think.

[bush_cheney2004]

I guess me. And I guess it would depend on what you define 'going down the tubes' as...

It is in my opinion that it has gone through a mild correction and that the worst is past us now.

Maybe that's what people think of as 'going down the tubes'?

i don't, but I can't be sure what others think.

Me too....some of these folks have no idea what "going down the tubes" means in this context. Many other nations would be happy to have what the US (or Canadian) economies do on a bad day, month, or year.

[Shady]

Me too....some of these folks have no idea what "going down the tubes" means in this context. Many other nations would be happy to have what the US (or Canadian) economies do on a bad day, month, or year.

Exactly. I had no idea that slow growth was equated with an economy going "down the tubes."

[Shady]

And to address this thread topic, I actually think it's the Palestinians that need to get their act together.

Miscount? What miscount?!

don't worry - there's NO paper trail!!!

As the Democrats say in Chicago, vote early, vote often!

[Rue]

Looks like the Yanks are going to elect Obama and Obama has said he wants to talk to Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. The Chinese Wall that the neocons have built up over so many years is tumbling down...

Israel is no longer the pretty girl at the ball.

Of course. there is always the possibility of voting irregularities...

You have completely mistated what Obama's positions are and what he stands for. Why don't you make an effort to find out what his positions really are. Your "he wants to talk to Iran, Hams, and Hezbollah" is a classic case of someone taking what he has actually said completely out of context. As for this Israel is no longer the pretty girl at the ball and trying to suggest Obama is anti-Israel you are not even close.

In fact the only other time I have heard someone advance what you have about Obama in the way you did was on David Duke's web-site and on the Stormfront web-site.

Here is what Obama actually said..amazing what putting things in their proper context does;

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/02/aipac_policy_forum.php

Here is what he said about Israel and has been consistent in saying;

"Our job is to never forget that the threat of violence is real. Our job is to renew the United States' efforts to help Israel achieve peace with its neighbors while remaining vigilant against those who do not share this vision. Our job is to do more than lay out another road map; our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region.

That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point. And when we see all of the growing threats in the region: from Iran to Iraq to the resurgence of al-Qaeda to the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah, that loyalty and that friendship will guide me as we begin to lay the stones that will build the road that takes us from the current instability to lasting peace and security."

and here is what he said about Iran;

"The world must work to stop Iran's uranium enrichment program and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is far too dangerous to have nuclear weapons in the hands of a radical theocracy. And while we should take no option, including military action, off the table, sustained and aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions should be our primary means to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons."

and here is what he said about Hezbollah and Hamas;

"And when Israel is attacked, we must stand up for Israel's legitimate right to defend itself. Last summer, Hezbollah attacked Israel. By using Lebanon as an outpost for terrorism, and innocent people as shields, Hezbollah has also engulfed that entire nation in violence and conflict, and threatened the fledgling movement for democracy there. That's why we have to press for enforcement of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1701, which demands the cessation of arms shipments to Hezbollah, a resolution which Syria and Iran continue to disregard. Their support and shipment of weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas, which threatens the peace and security in the region, must end. "

and;

"The U.S. and our partners have put before Hamas three very simple conditions to end this isolation: recognize Israel's right to exist; renounce the use of violence; and abide by past agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority."

and;

"We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month. The reports of this agreement suggest that Hamas, Fatah, and independent ministers would sit in a government together, under a Hamas Prime Minister, without any recognition of Israel, without a renunciation of violence, and with only an ambiguous promise to "respect" previous agreements.

This should concern us all because it suggests that Mahmoud Abbas, who is a Palestinian leader I believe is committed to peace, felt forced to compromise with Hamas. However, if we are serious about the Quartet's conditions, we must tell the Palestinians this is not good enough.

But as I said at the outset, Israel will have some heavy stones to carry as well. Its history has been full of tough choices in search of peace and security.

Yitzhak Rabin had the vision to reach out to longtime enemies. Ariel Sharon had the determination to lead Israel out of Gaza. These were difficult, painful decisions that went to the heart of Israel's identity as a nation.

Many Israelis I talked to during my visit last year told me that they were prepared to make sacrifices to give their children a chance to know peace. These were people of courage who wanted a better life. And I know these are difficult times and it can be easy to lose hope. But we owe it to our sons and daughters, our mothers and fathers, and to all those who have fallen, to keep searching for peace and security -- even though it can seem distant. This search is in the best interests of Israel. It is in the best interests of the United States. It is in the best interests of all of us. "

and;

"We can and we should help Israelis and Palestinians both fulfill their national goals: two states living side by side in peace and security. Both the Israeli and Palestinian people have suffered from the failure to achieve this goal. The United States should leave no stone unturned in working to make that goal a reality.

But in the end, we also know that we should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli Prime Minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States.

We must be partners - we must be active partners. Diplomacy in the Middle East cannot be done on the cheap. Diplomacy is measured by patience and effort. We cannot continue to have trips consisting of little more than photo-ops with little movement in between. Neither Israel nor the U.S. is served by this approach."

Edited May 13, 2008 by Rue