Our reign of terror, by the Israeli army

[kuzadd]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...rmy-811769.html

The birds are singing as he describes in detail some of what he did and saw others do as an enlisted soldier in Hebron. And they are certainly criminal: the incidents in which Palestinian vehicles are stopped for no good reason, the windows smashed and the occupants beaten up for talking back – for saying, for example, they are on the way to hospital; the theft of tobacco from a Palestinian shopkeeper who is then beaten "to a pulp" when he complains; the throwing of stun grenades through the windows of mosques as people prayed. And worse.

The older ex-soldier is Yehuda Shaul, who does indeed "know how it is in Hebron", having served in the city in a combat unit at the peak of the intifada, and is a founder of Shovrim Shtika, or Breaking the Silence, which will publish tomorrow the disturbing testimonies of 39 Israelis – including this young man – who served in the army in Hebron between 2005 and 2007. They cover a range of experiences, from anger and powerlessness in the face of often violent abuse of Arabs by hardline Jewish settlers, through petty harassment by soldiers, to soldiers beating up Palestinian residents without provocation, looting homes and shops, and opening fire on unarmed demonstrators.

The maltreatment of civilians under occupation is common to many armies in the world – including Britain's, from Northern Ireland to Iraq.

Or using a 10-year-old child to locate and punish a 15-year-old stone-thrower: "So we got hold of just some Palestinian kid nearby, we knew that he knew who it had been. Let's say we beat him a little, to put it mildly, until he told us. You know, the way it goes when your mind's already screwed up, and you have no more patience for Hebron and Arabs and Jews there.

"The kid was really scared, realising we were on to him. We had a commander with us who was a bit of a fanatic. We gave the boy over to this commander, and he really beat the shit out of him ... He showed him all kinds of holes in the ground along the way, asking him: 'Is it here you want to die? Or here?' The kid goes, 'No, no!'

reality check time.

[kuzadd]

another news article on the same group:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3533441,00.html

Testimonies from Hebron: Soldiers choke, beat Palestinians

Soldiers serving in Hebron testify to violent acts unleashed by troops, settlers on Palestinian residents. Four testimonies below

"Everyone there feels like they are doing something wrong. At least my friends felt they were doing something wrong." This was the opening sentence in a pamphlet over 100 pages long, which tells the stories of dozens of soldiers who have served in Hebron over the last few years.

I'll put one testimony here, for your reading pleasure, there is a link at this news article to the pamphlet this group has put out.

Choking:

Soldier: "We did all kinds of experiments to see who could do the best split in Abu Sneina. We would put them against the wall, make like we were checking them, and ask them to spread their legs. Spread, spread, spread, it was a game to see who could do it best.

"Or we would check who can hold his breath for longest."

Interviewer: "How do you check that?"

"Choke them. One guy would come, make like he was checking them, and suddenly start yelling like they said something and choke them… Block their airways, you have to press the adams apple. It's not pleasant. Look at the watch as you're doing it, until he passes out. The one who takes longest to faint wins."

[BC_chick]

You must be a jew-hater kuzadd.

It's not Israelis' fault they have to do things like that. Palestinians need to understand that "God" has chosen to give that piece of real-estate to His Chosen People, and the Palestinians need to stop putting up a fight and just move away without a fuss into neighbouring countries.

Then the Israelis wouldn't have to be so mean. Read jbg's quote from Golda Meir.... they really hate themselves for having to kill Palestinians all the time.

[M.Dancer]

So these fellows who terrorize, they are being prosecuted by Israel?

[kuzadd]

You must be a jew-hater kuzadd.

It's not Israelis' fault they have to do things like that. Palestinians need to understand that "God" has chosen to give that piece of real-estate to His Chosen People, and the Palestinians need to stop putting up a fight and just move away without a fuss into neighbouring countries.

Then the Israelis wouldn't have to be so mean. Read jbg's quote from Golda Meir.... they really hate themselves for having to kill Palestinians all the time.

yes that's it, it is the Palestinians themselves that cause IDF soldiers, to beat them, and choke them, all for fun, to test them.

Pillage their homes, steal their money and more

And the settlers???!!

those guys are some "chosen by God kinda people "

in the occupied territories

I saw a video where one settler in the occupied area said, his land extends as far as his gun can shoot Palestinians in the occupied territories!

nice.

I don't believe in "chosen people"

If god created man in his/her image, he created all man, and had no chosen people.

As I said before, if an omnipotent god created mankind, he would be wise enough not to encourage sibling rivalry, by playing favourites.

Edited April 20, 2008 by kuzadd

[WarBicycle]

So these fellows who terrorize, they are being prosecuted by Israel?

Soldiers serving in Hebron testify to violent acts unleashed by troops, settlers on Palestinian residents. Four testimonies below

(taken from one of the above sources).

It certainly appears that is the case.

[kuzadd]

It certainly appears that is the case.

does it?

did you read through the articles?

[WarBicycle]

To testify is to give a first hand authentication of a fact usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official. The Israeli Army subscribes to the rule of law, anyone who is guilty of a war crime will eventually be held accountable because I don't believe there is an statute of limitations for war crimes.

[Oleg Bach]

To testify is to give a first hand authentication of a fact usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official. The Israeli Army subscribes to the rule of law, anyone who is guilty of a war crime will eventually be held accountable because I don't believe there is an statute of limitations for war crimes.

Israel oh poor Israel the stool pigeon lacky henchman for the anglo Nazi who have been their masters since Shakespear wrote the Merchant of Venice...Conrad the frontman Black abused policy in the middle east via his rag the Jerusalem Post. The time honoured deal with the Jews is old news. They cause confusion do all the lieing for their masters and they are paid well...when things turn to crap because the international anglo mafia collapse a banking system through prolonged corruption......guess who takes the fall..the Jews...that's their job. It looked good for a while when the Muslims looked like they would take the place of the Jews as scape goats - but because of the internet and a general awarness of real and imagined treachery - The public is to tuned in and ahead of the game so the Muslims as a hate object and cover up will not fly so they are back to pointing at Jews...perfect example....anglo owned media are now saying "Greenspan screwed up the Federal Rerserve and the Jew is to blame for American finacial collapse ----nice try..... and by the way - what the hell is the Pope doing over her kissing murderous ass.... boy what a mess!

[scribblet]

Oh gee, those Palestinians are so innocent, they never do anything to Israel, and really just want to live in peace and harmony without violence .... and of course the Palestinian gov't will prosecute anyone caught killing innocent Israelis...

[Shady]

Oh gee, those Palestinians are so innocent, they never do anything to Israel, and really just want to live in peace and harmony without violence .... and of course the Palestinian gov't will prosecute anyone caught killing innocent Israelis...

Exactly.

Oh woe-is-me for being treated badly by some Israelis, while Palestinians have tried to exterminate them for some 70+ years. How many invasions by how many Arab states over how many decades? Then, they lose a war in which they started, they lose land because of it, and now want to go back to the conditions which existed before the invasion they began. That's rich. I'm sure Israel would give back any "occupied" territory, if they knew it wouldn't be used as a staging ground for more attacks. Which seems to be the case.

And what's really pathetic, is hearing people who strap suicide belts on their children, complain about children being "abused" by Israeli soldiers. That's also very rich.

[Borg]

Rather than point fingers at individuals, it is true that bad things happen in battle. I would never ever state categorically that either side is completely innocent.

There is good and bad and just down right ugly. I happen to have most of the T-shirts.

I would say this though -

If the Isrealis lay down their arms what will happen? Genocide? Most likely.

If the the Palestinians laid down their arms what will happen? Peace? Most likely.

However, the fact remains there are many here who would gladly see genocide - and I believe you to be one of those people kuzadd - either that or a troll who loves to maintain and promote a one sided view - perhaps even from a stage in the nearest mosque.

In the end - If you stop kicking the bee hive, the bees will stop stinging.

I wonder if that will ever happen with people like a truly evil and dispicable animal like Yunis al-Astal, a Hamas MP and cleric - who lives to promote hatred and killing and war - all in the name of power.

Not religion!

Power!

Ask him what he would do if Isreal laid down her weapons.

If you agree with his answer - then you are the problem and certainly not part of a solution.

It is his way or death. Not a very nice person. Are you related perhaps?

Borg

[kuzadd]

Rather than point fingers at individuals, it is true that bad things happen in battle. I would never ever state categorically that either side is completely innocent.

There is good and bad and just down right ugly. I happen to have most of the T-shirts.

I would say this though -

If the Isrealis lay down their arms what will happen? Genocide? Most likely.

If the the Palestinians laid down their arms what will happen? Peace? Most likely.

However, the fact remains there are many here who would gladly see genocide - and I believe you to be one of those people kuzadd - either that or a troll who loves to maintain and promote a one sided view - perhaps even from a stage in the nearest mosque.

In the end - If you stop kicking the bee hive, the bees will stop stinging.

I wonder if that will ever happen with people like a truly evil and dispicable animal like Yunis al-Astal, a Hamas MP and cleric - who lives to promote hatred and killing and war - all in the name of power.

Not religion!

Power!

Ask him what he would do if Isreal laid down her weapons.

If you agree with his answer - then you are the problem and certainly not part of a solution.

It is his way or death. Not a very nice person. Are you related perhaps?

Borg

and yet, you demonstrate obvious hypocrisy.

"Rather than point fingers at individuals, it is true that bad things happen in battle. I would never ever state categorically that either side is completely innocent."

then you go on to do , just that and reduce this thread to personal smear.

would you please back up your BS assertation that I am a promoter of genocide?

Or you can retract and apologize.

wow, how balanced you demonstrate yourself to be, a person who writes what you do??

lol!

I guess you can't handle to hear the other side of the story, from the soldiers themselves, who perpetrated vicious acts, for no reason at all, by their own accounting. Is that what bothers you, that Israeli soldiers are confessing their own crimes.

Edited April 21, 2008 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

To testify is to give a first hand authentication of a fact usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official. The Israeli Army subscribes to the rule of law, anyone who is guilty of a war crime will eventually be held accountable because I don't believe there is an statute of limitations for war crimes.

The Israeli army subscribes to the rule of law, like the US army apparently.

War makes beasts of people on all sides of the conflict, not just one.

[buffycat]

Exactly.

Oh woe-is-me for being treated badly by some Israelis, while Palestinians have tried to exterminate them for some 70+ years. How many invasions by how many Arab states over how many decades? Then, they lose a war in which they started, they lose land because of it, and now want to go back to the conditions which existed before the invasion they began. That's rich. I'm sure Israel would give back any "occupied" territory, if they knew it wouldn't be used as a staging ground for more attacks. Which seems to be the case.

And what's really pathetic, is hearing people who strap suicide belts on their children, complain about children being "abused" by Israeli soldiers. That's also very rich.

Have you ever read a history book?

You might just want to look into the 67 six-day war. Isreal was the aggressor (she usually is). There were many in the Israeli Admin who had grave reservations and misgivings about that fiasco which resulted in the occupation of Palestinian lands. There were a brave few who saw that the end of Israel would end with her occupying another nation - she cannot ever go back now - as she has made herself responsible for ALL those under her military occupation.

Keep in mind, at this time - still no 'suicide' bombers!! Then, the Israels decided that they'd start bulldozing peoples' homes and supplant their villages with Jewish only Settlements (against all international conventions and laws!). Not to mention they decided to attack Lebanon, kicking off over a decade of civil unreast and war resulting in the deaths of about 20,000 Lebanese! (They tried for Lebanon Part Troix in 2006, resulting in the murder of over 1000 civilians, which continues today - since they won't tell the groups involved in cleaning up the bloody cluster bombs where they frikkin dropped them all - never mind that they were a nice rush order from DaddyUs and dropped when the cease fire was known to begin.) Now there is a tragedy - yet guess what - Israel still violates this 'ceasefire' daily!! With flyovers and ground intrusions (hey I'd be pissed too if the 'other side' kept going back on their word! Israeli Admins have been VERY good at that).

Notice something here? I am very clear about keeping the Israeli Administrations separate from everyday Israelis - I refuse to paint all Israelis with the colour of their government's brush. Unlike you - who seem to see only black and white - I see all the myriad of colours and shades in between. You REALLY need to lose the hate brother.

You might want to check out these sites:

Israeli Comittee Against House Demolitions

B'TSelem

Take some time, read and educate yourself.

[buffycat]

However, the fact remains there are many here who would gladly see genocide - and I believe you to be one of those people kuzadd - either that or a troll who loves to maintain and promote a one sided view - perhaps even from a stage in the nearest mosque.

~snip~

Ask him what he would do if Isreal laid down her weapons.

If you agree with his answer - then you are the problem and certainly not part of a solution.

It is his way or death. Not a very nice person. Are you related perhaps?

Borg

Holy F***

What is your problem? Accusing people of WANTING a GENOCIDE??

F****** Unbelievable the double standards around here!!

I'm shocked (not)

[WarBicycle]

There has never been a nation called Palestine, the Israel have as much right to their territory as the Palestinian have to theirs. The Palestinians have been given ample opportunity over the past twenty years to have a state of their own, but they refuse to compromise and insist on the destruction of Israel.

[buffycat]

There has never been a nation called Palestine, the Israel have as much right to their territory as the Palestinian have to theirs. The Palestinians have been given ample opportunity over the past twenty years to have a state of their own, but they refuse to compromise and insist on the destruction of Israel.

unadulterated BS - like practically all of your posts here buddy.

[DogOnPorch]

You might just want to look into the 67 six-day war. Isreal was the aggressor (she usually is). There were many in the Israeli Admin who had grave reservations and misgivings about that fiasco which resulted in the occupation of Palestinian lands.

That's incorrect. The Arabs were the aggressors under Nasser's Pan-Arabism. Arab armies gathered on the border to eliminate Israel...Israel struck first at the combined Arab airforces and gathered armies with their airforce...history records the whole story.

In May 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula, which had been stationed there since 1957 (following the 1956 Sinai invasion to allow for a free Suez Canal), to provide a peace-keeping buffer zone. In reaction to Israeli-Syrian tensions, Egypt amassed 1000 tanks and 100,000 soldiers on the border, closed the Straits of Tiran to all ships flying Israeli flags or carrying strategic materials, and called for unified Arab action against Israel. In response, on June 5, 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack against Egypt's airforce. Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya. At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, eastern Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser

(4 parts)

http://www.sixdaywar.org/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...ory/67_War.html

Some of Nasser's prewar quotes...

There is no longer a way out of our present situation except by forging a road toward our objective, violently and by force, over a sea of blood and under a horizon blazing with fire.

People do not want words - they want the sound of battle - the battle of destiny.

The Arabs were the aggressors in the 1973 Yom Kippur war, as well. Sneak attack during the holiday. Both wars by the Arabs to destroy Israel were lost decisively and with large losses of territory. Oddly enough, the Arabs feel that this land was "occupied illegally." Perhaps it's because they get their history from the same book as buffycat.

---------------------------------------------------

If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion (the 6 Day War) than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed. The right of innocent, maritime passage must be preserved for all nations.

---US President Lyndon Johnson - June 19th 1967

[DogOnPorch]

unadulterated BS - like practically all of your posts here buddy.

No...he's right. There has never been a nation called Palestine. Had the Arabs of the former Ottoman mandate accepted the 1947 UN Partition there would no doubt have been a nation called 'Palestine' formed the very same year as the nation of Israel. However, they didn't and with the help of various Arab neighbors attempted to destroy Israel in the 1948 War...which the Arabs also lost.

--------------------------------------

You can say that the '67 war was the beginning of a process in the Arab world where the question is no longer how we can best destroy Israel by conventional military arms, but how we can best make peace with Israel in such a way that many Arabs believe that they can still destroy Israel. Destroying Israel with peace, as opposed to with arms.

---Michael B. Oren

[scribblet]

There has never been a nation called Palestine, the Israel have as much right to their territory as the Palestinian have to theirs. The Palestinians have been given ample opportunity over the past twenty years to have a state of their own, but they refuse to compromise and insist on the destruction of Israel.

Correct, there never was or has been a Palestine, those we now call Palestinians lived mostly in Jordan and Syria, heck Yasser Arafat was an Egyptian. This doesn't mean there never will be one, there can be if the 'Palestinians' decide on peace rather than genocide. [ of Israel]

Back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper "Trouw" published an interview it had with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. This is what he had to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

[WarBicycle]

unadulterated BS - like practically all of your posts here buddy.

Prove me wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Israeli army subscribes to the rule of law, like the US army apparently.

War makes beasts of people on all sides of the conflict, not just one.

Or your former Airborne Regiment...may the best beasts win.

[kuzadd]

Or your former Airborne Regiment...may the best beasts win.

usually the best beast does win, right.

[kuzadd]

This thread is about Israeli soldiers who are confessing their crimes, that they committed of their own accord, and their own free will.

Can we get back to the topic.

the soldiers acknowledge they are committting crimes in the OCCUPIED territories, therefore, they acknowledge the are NOT in their own country.

They are infact outside of their designated borders which is why , they are occupiers.

They have made a presentation to the people of Israel, to inform them what they are doing, in the name of Israel, to the people they occupy.

As for there never being a palestine, there was, because when one goes back to the UN resolution relating to the partitioning Of Palestine, it is called Palestine, because there was a Palestine.

All historical revision and utter nonsense bordering on hysterical stupidity aside.

http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/maps/part.html

On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted with a 2/3 majority to partition western Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state.

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/22562.htm

just read through and take note of how many times Palestinians and Palestine are acknowledged as an existent country and existing people.

here's just one sentence

1. Citizenship

Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

Palestinians with Palestinian citizenship!

now back to the soldiers!